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Fire Danger High - Stay safe  

post #1 of 146
Thread Starter 

With the low snow year in many places, especially Colorado, and lack of spring rains, its no surprise that the fire danger is extremely high in a lot of regions. 

USA Today has a report on the fire outbreaks in Colorado. 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-24/colorado-wildfire/55792562/1

 

First let me say, Stay safe.  

 

Second, how many area's will be banning fireworks next week?  

post #2 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

 

Second, how many area's will be banning fireworks next week?  

Many mountain areas already have canceled. Some over lakes are still planned to continue, which might change.... Steamboat, Aspen, Eagle, Breckenridge, Keystone, Georgetown, Idaho Springs, all nixed. 

 

And all non-commercial fireworks in the state have been banned already. (Much to the chagrin of my teenage son.)

post #3 of 146
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Many mountain areas already have canceled. Some over lakes are still planned to continue, which might change.... Steamboat, Aspen, Eagle, Breckenridge, Keystone, Georgetown, Idaho Springs, all nixed. 

 

And all non-commercial fireworks in the state have been banned already. (Much to the chagrin of my teenage son.)

I knew a few of those had banned them this year, but the added list brings a sigh of relief.  This is a scary year. 

 

At this point, and with the high winds here, I'm not sure I'd let a guest smoke in my back yard.(and they sure aren't smoking in my house) 

post #4 of 146

Biked from Breck to Frisco today -- pretty dry...

DSCF5489.JPG

post #5 of 146
Thread Starter 

I was just watching the noon news.  They said that the Waldo Canyon Fire is Colorado is the highest priority fire in the nation at the moment and that containment is critical.

 

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I see these reports. 

 

Here is a report I found on line. 

http://www.9news.com/news/article/274327/188/LIVE-VIDEO-Waldo-Canyon-Fire-worrying-residents

post #6 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

I was just watching the noon news.  They said that the Waldo Canyon Fire is Colorado is the highest priority fire in the nation at the moment and that containment is critical.

 

I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I see these reports. 

 

Here is a report I found on line. 

http://www.9news.com/news/article/274327/188/LIVE-VIDEO-Waldo-Canyon-Fire-worrying-residents

 

 

Half the nation's firefighting force is in CO, so no one else catch fire, please. DH was flying out of SFO this afternoon with firefighters on his plane, coming here. 

 

And there is a new one this afternoon, up Flagstaff outside Boulder. We got some lightning today. Not enough rain. (I counted 9 drops.)

post #7 of 146
Thread Starter 

Rachel V took this pic a little bit ago, near Boulder. 

389053_10150850293406735_882674885_n.jpg

post #8 of 146

This is from my drive home about 2 hours ago.

 

269240_10150896897896681_434075672_n.jpg

post #9 of 146

It rained for about 2 hours in Breck this afternoon.

post #10 of 146

Holy shit ... while the Boulder fire was distracting us, the CO Spgs fire blew up, in some heavily residential areas. This is unbelievable. Even parts of the Air Force Academy are being evac'd. The Flying W Ranch, a 60-year fixture here, is gone, totally. 

 

 

396927_10151075212578628_1748085675_n.jpg

 

20120626_084116_colorado_wildfire_waldo_canyon_inside.jpg

post #11 of 146

That is quite the fire....

Hopefully they can be brought under control quickly, stay safe!

 

Here in Western Washington, it's been raining a ton for the past week or so, not much chance of a fire over here. I actually wore my ski shell today it was raining so hard.

post #12 of 146

Hmmmm........sorry to hear folks are having fire problems so early in the summer. I well know what it's like, there have been several summers where the smoke was so thick here that you couldn't see more than a few blocks for weeks at a time, but this year so far, the surrounding hills are green instead of brown, and the air is sweet.

post #13 of 146

Go a bit south and the fire season has already started near Bozeman and Helena, while there were flood warnings near Kalispell. No rain for a long time, high winds and hot temps. It's going to be a long summer. 

post #14 of 146

Boulder fire didn't get any bigger overnight so it's much much less smoky this morning. Small miracles, etc.

 

Co Springs is some totally unreal, armageddon-style shi*t right now. I cannot even imagine.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Holy shit ... while the Boulder fire was distracting us, the CO Spgs fire blew up, in some heavily residential areas. This is unbelievable. Even parts of the Air Force Academy are being evac'd. The Flying W Ranch, a 60-year fixture here, is gone, totally. 

 

 

396927_10151075212578628_1748085675_n.jpg

 

20120626_084116_colorado_wildfire_waldo_canyon_inside.jpg

post #15 of 146
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelv View Post

Boulder fire didn't get any bigger overnight so it's much much less smoky this morning. Small miracles, etc.

 

Co Springs is some totally unreal, armageddon-style shi*t right now. I cannot even imagine.

 

I think under the circumstances you can say the word and no one will mind. 

You nailed the description  

Unreal, armageddon-style shit.

 

Edit:  http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/06/27/waldo-canyon-fire-force-more-32k-to-flee-homes/

post #16 of 146

Flying W gone?  A shame! Some of the pictures from the Academy are just scary to see.  

 

Has anyone heard any more about the Sanpete fire in Utah?  Not nearly the people involved, all small towns there, but a little slice of Paradise being lost.  It will never get the coverage but the tragedy is just as real for those people.

 

Anybody there or with family involved with any of these fires; be safe and many are thinking of you.

post #17 of 146

Maybe the USAF can spare some of those big tanker sized transport planes.  I've heard for years that the US Forestry Service fleet is nothing but a bunch of broken down and unreliable WWII surplus planes. Sans rain with 100+ degree temps that is really the only way to try to control this.  It's too hot to try to manage it from the ground.

post #18 of 146

You can't manage a fire at all when the humidity is <10% and temps in the high 90's... low 100's and then the winds kick up to 65mph as they did at the Waldo fire last night.  You just get out of way and pray no ones get hurt and wait for conditions to change.  

 

We need rain bad...real bad!

post #19 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post

Flying W gone?  A shame! 

 

I know, it was kind of a hokey place, but we'd all been there ... an institution to be sure. 

 

I don't live in CO Spgs now, but I used to, and I do spend a bit of time there for one reason or the other ... kids go to camp at the Academy, lots of soccer games and tournaments, visits to the Broadmoor... So the immediacy is closer for me than many of these other fires. Plus, seeing subdivisions go up in flames ... this isn't a remote fire. It's not but a few miles from downtown

post #20 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Maybe the USAF can spare some of those big tanker sized transport planes. 

 

They already did, there were four C130s released Monday.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_20937378

post #21 of 146
Thread Starter 

Another picture from the area. (as if we don't already have an idea of how bad it is)

562832_10150172704514997_1853722700_n.jpg

post #22 of 146

It occurred to me that beetle kill would really exacerbate the spread of fires in Colorado and other parts of the Rockies, beetle killed trees are like gas soaked torches waiting for a spark (I'm not exaggerating, there is no better tinder), but then again, it may be nature's way of controlling the beetle population.

post #23 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

It occurred to me that beetle kill would really exacerbate the spread of fires in Colorado and other parts of the Rockies, beetle killed trees are like gas soaked torches waiting for a spark (I'm not exaggerating, there is no better tinder), but then again, it may be nature's way of controlling the beetle population.

 

Absolutely.  But I'm not sure any of these fires have even hit the areas with much beetle kill damage. Most of these recent ones have been in lower elevations, which is mostly ponderosa pine, not lodgepole. 

post #24 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post

Flying W gone? 

I remember going there as a kid -- always kind of fun.  I wonder how it is around the Garden of the Gods?

 

When we drove up Saturday the smoke from the Leadville fire was coming over the 10 Mile Range as we came into Breck. Is that fire out now?

post #25 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

Another picture from the area. (as if we don't already have an idea of how bad it is)

562832_10150172704514997_1853722700_n.jpg

 

I think this is actually in Montana.

post #26 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwestPete View Post

I remember going there as a kid -- always kind of fun.  I wonder how it is around the Garden of the Gods?

 

When we drove up Saturday the smoke from the Leadville fire was coming over the 10 Mile Range as we came into Breck. Is that fire out now?

 

Garden of the Gods is in the evac area, but I think it's on the southern edge, and fire has been moving north and east. Here's the map from this morning; g of g is roughly where it says "West Colorado Springs."

 

copgs2.jpg

 

The Leadville fire is still small ... it reached treeline, nothing to burn. 

post #27 of 146

Thanks segbrown.  We have had some rain the past 2 days here in Breck.  I noticed the fire danger dropped a notch today -- it went from EXTREME to VERY HIGH.

post #28 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

 

Absolutely.  But I'm not sure any of these fires have even hit the areas with much beetle kill damage. Most of these recent ones have been in lower elevations, which is mostly ponderosa pine, not lodgepole. 

Or maybe not...

 

 

 

Bark beetle kill leads to more severe fires, right? Well, maybe


By Gail Wells
High Country News
The lodgepole pine and spruce-fir forests of the Intermountain West are reeling under a one-two punch: more frequent and severe wildfires, and an epidemic of tree-killing bark beetles.

Once-green forests are filled with red dying trees and patches of gray dead ones. From a distance, the effect is oddly beautiful. Up close, people often experience a visceral jolt, followed by a sense of alarm: Can't somebody do something?

Steve Currey has fielded his share of anxious phone calls. "A few years ago," he says, "we were under a lot of public pressure to stop the beetles from spreading further." Currey is director of bark beetle operations on the sprawling Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest in Wyoming and Colorado. The outbreak there started in northwestern Colorado in the mid-1990s and moved northeast to central Wyoming. "The beetles aren't killing every tree," Currey says, "but they are killing a majority of mature lodgepole pine, and we've lost half our limber pine, too." More than 116 million acres in the North American Rocky Mountains have been affected. "People are beginning to understand that this thing is too big to stop."

Wildfire and beetle epidemics both have long histories in Western forests. Their patterns have been shaped somewhat by human impacts, but outbreaks, which tend to be infrequent and severe, are driven by larger factors. Scientists believe a warming climate is the main factor behind the West's more frequent severe wildfires, and is also likely amplifying the current bark-beetle epidemic, the most widespread on record. Warmer winters allow beetles to spread into more northerly and high-elevation territory. Beetles reproduce more often during longer warm seasons, and more larvae survive winters.

It might seem that fire and bark beetles are locked in some malevolent feedback loop, with fires inviting beetles to devour weakened trees, and beetles creating fuel for future fires.

But "there were surprisingly little data backing up that conventional wisdom," says Monica Turner, a University of Wisconsin landscape ecologist and coauthor of a much-discussed 2011 study that examined links between beetle epidemics and wildfires in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.

The study's findings — that beetle attacks don't increase severe-fire risk, and may in fact reduce it as dying trees shed needles — may sound counterintuitive. But they are in line with more than two decades of research indicating that, while bark beetle epidemics and fire are entwined in complicated ways, one does not necessarily amplify the other.

Yet this recent study — which used a computer model that simulates fire behavior to predict severe-fire risk based on current conditions, unlike most of the previous research, which looked to historic beetle epidemics and fire patterns to unravel the relationship between the two — has drawn sharp criticism, particularly from those who manage fires in beetle-killed forests. Turner and her colleagues say that large-scale removal of dead trees — often proposed to reduce fire risk — is "probably not needed" in lodgepole forests, which dominate the upper montane and lower subalpine zones of the Rockies. Critics counter that the study's methodology and narrow geographic scope don't justify its sweeping conclusion, and that it shouldn't be interpreted as a broad indictment of salvage logging. This collegial wrangle illuminates how messy — yet essential — it is to apply land-management science to management itself. And it raises the question: Should we do something with all that dead wood?

Crown fires are typically the severest fires: They spread treetop-to-treetop and burn huge swaths of forest to the ground. Bark beetles attack forests like a slow tide, taking a decade or more to kill most (but hardly ever all) of the trees. Depending on the stage of attack, a beetle-infested stand may contain live trees, dead-but-still-green trees, dead trees with dried-out red needles, and bare, gray dead trees. The risk of crown fire is greatest the first year or two after attack, when trees are still standing and there's ample fuel left in the canopy.

Turner, coauthor Martin Simard and their team measured and mapped fuels in the canopy, understory and forest floor in beetle-killed and undisturbed forest stands, then fed the data into the computer model. They concluded that a wildfire in a beetle-damaged forest is no more likely to develop into a crown fire than one burning in a green, living stand.

"(Beetle-killed forests) will burn perfectly well," says Turner. "The point is that they will burn no more severely than a comparable green forest." That's because, in this forest type, severe wildfires are mainly driven by climate, not fuel quantity or arrangement.

But some wildfire experts maintain that fuel, and specifically its moisture, is a bigger factor in fire severity than Turner and Simard's results indicate. Missoula, Mont.-based Forest Service ecologists Matt Jolly and Russ Parsons recently found that the foliage of red beetle-killed trees is much drier than living foliage, ignites more readily, releases more heat when it burns, and is more apt to throw burning material into adjacent areas. This seems to explain what Dana Hicks, regional fire management specialist for the British Columbia Ministry of Forests, observed in the mid-2000s, when massive fires ripped through beetle-killed forests near Prince George. These fires, he reports, were as intense as those in a green forest, but much faster-moving, "with double, if not triple, the rates of spread that you get in a green forest."

Turner and her colleagues acknowledge that none of the currently available fire-behavior models account for fuel moisture very well. (It is devilishly difficult to get a computer to accurately simulate a real fire.) But the team maintains that its model was adequate, and that critics overestimate the degree and rapidity of beetle kill and the ensuing accumulation of fuel, leading them to overestimate the severity of future fire. Because of the diffuse character of beetle attacks, they note, a stand as a whole never gets as dry as a single dead tree.

Lodgepole pine is exceptionally prone to crown fire, so it made sense to study whether bark beetles exacerbate that risk. But it's not only dramatic crown fires that worry managers, says Mike Battaglia, a Forest Service researcher in Colorado. A hot surface fire, fed by heavy fuel buildup, "is going to cook the ground and all the regeneration (or seedlings). And if those trees aren't old enough to have put out cones yet, you have a problem."

So what's a forest manager to do? In most of the West, widespread salvage logging is unlikely to become the preferred method for managing beetle kill. It's expensive, and many affected areas lie in hard-to-reach wilderness or other environmentally sensitive places. The key objective for managers in these forests, says Steve Currey, is to protect human life and safety.

At lower and middle elevations, that means removing hazardous trees from campgrounds and along trails, taking out smaller wood from surrounding forest, and working with communities to reduce fuels around homes. At higher elevations, the most effective strategy is probably to do nothing beyond clearing dead trees from popular trails.

Battaglia and Currey also argue that as access and budgets allow, judicious use of salvage logging, mechanical thinning, planned fire, or all three, in beetle-killed areas can reduce the risk of severe fires later on. Such measures can also encourage an uneven forest mosaic of varying ages that's more fire- and beetle-resilient.

Simard and Turner aren't saying that salvage logging is never a good idea, or that it never reduces fire risk. Nor do they recommend allowing beetle outbreaks and wildfires to run their course because they are "natural." But they do believe that managers considering fuel-reduction projects should justify them carefully.

Logging or thinning beetle-killed forests is often advised for the sake of "forest health." But there is nothing intrinsically unhealthy about a beetle outbreak, argues University of Wisconsin entomologist Ken Raffa, even an epidemic-sized one. "Beetles are part of the forest," he says. "They play valuable roles, just as fire does. If we say we're managing the forest to promote 'forest health,' that's not a fair way to say it. If we're honest, we'll say we're managing the forest because we and the beetles are competing for the same resource."



Read more:Bark beetle kill leads to more severe fires, right? Well, maybe - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_20909281/bark-beetle-kill-leads-more-severe-fires-right#ixzz1z5wOsJYa

post #29 of 146

The rain in Summit County has been negligible. It has been cloudy and cooler some days but as is evident with many of our fires in CO, lightning strikes have caused many of them. We need a good soaker without lightning to help us out. Boulder had several spot fires since the Flagstaff fire started that were casued by lightning. Fortunately those were addressed immediately and supressed.

post #30 of 146

Excellent article. Thanks segbrown for posting.
 

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