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heartcarving - a new way to ski - Page 3

post #61 of 89
6/17/12 at 8:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/239850-The-Future-of-Skiing-(vid-of-skiboard-carving-14-31)?p=3562117#post3562117

 

I love the part where you straight line through the lift corral. That was rad. 


It's all rad mate. It's all rad.

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post #62 of 89
6/17/12 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post


It's all rad mate. It's all rad.

 

My post was an ironic attempt to call attention to the fact that you seem to frequently choose a line that puts you in very close proximity to other skiers who are going much slower than you are. I think that is a pretty risky decision making. I guess you are posting this thread to share the stoke and because you think it is worth emulating. If everyone skied this way, it would be a blood bath. 


Edited by tromano - 6/17/12 at 9:42pm
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post #63 of 89
6/17/12 at 10:01pm

Have you considered a monoski version of your new way of thinking about snow sports?  Those guys should really like what you are presenting here.  

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post #64 of 89
6/17/12 at 10:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

 

My post was an ironic attempt to call attention to the fact that you seem to frequently choose a line that puts you in very close proximity to other skiers who are going much slower than you are. I think that is a pretty risky decision making. I guess you are posting this thread to share the stoke and because you think it is worth emulating. If everyone skied this way, it would be a blood bath. 

 

Heading through the lift corral like that was a one-off.

 

But you raise a good point.

 

Let me clarify. My signature on TGR prior to the existing one was "Spending the majority of my ski day in command, on edge and at terminal velocity."

 

Note first attribute: in command. You will notice how free I am with my polecam too. There's no danger to anyone in that I'm in command. I never collided with anyone. I do want to see carveparks to give people practice at it or closed off runs just for fanging.

 

The good skiers amongst us will be okay with it. Admittedly, heartcarving is only for very advanced skiers who want to reach the next level, they'll have to throwaway everything they've learnt too.. that's the hard bit.. and then bring it back in. Possibly excellent skiers who also surf/snowboard/skate/rollerblade/waterski/iceskate. (I play drums, do yoga, some chi kung, rollerblade, drive double clutch) I think there'll be a subset of Newschoolers who'll excel.

 

If you Ski and do Parkour and have the need for speed it'd be ideal. Maybe in your 20s, I don't know. I wonder if racers could handle it. I don't know. I want to sell a few pairs of the first generation ski not so much to make money but to see how other people manage.


Edited by heartcarve - 6/17/12 at 10:19pm
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post #65 of 89
6/17/12 at 11:19pm

Why not heartcarve on regular skis?  You go faster and have the same freedom.  Like most folks here I did that (before sitskiing) on groomers getting back to the lift, it does feel good.

 

Sending a virtual sympathy card to infinity and beyond, poor dude is still laughing.

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post #66 of 89
6/17/12 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post

Why not heartcarve on regular skis?  You go faster and have the same freedom.  Like most folks here I did that (before sitskiing) on groomers getting back to the lift, it does feel good.

 

Sending a virtual sympathy card to infinity and beyond, poor dude is still laughing.

 

 

Short answer is I want something around 8m radius at this point. I could ski any ski of course but not in the way I want. 

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post #67 of 89
6/18/12 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

I haven't been sidetracked by off-piste

 

You must be doing it wrong, then.

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post #68 of 89
6/18/12 at 10:37am

Yeah, the short skis might be fun for an afternoon on soft groomers, but for me, that would be about it.  Would not spend $ on skis like that - somewhat versatile on turn length and you can do little zigs and zags, but the skis do not seem very stable.  For that type of skiing I would prefer a SL ski - more stability and purer carving IMHO. 


Edited by canadianskier - 6/18/12 at 3:00pm
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post #69 of 89
6/18/12 at 10:59am

Heartcarve

I think your pole cam could be an effective device for communicating what you are trying to show to other skiers but also provide comparative feedback for these folks who are teaching themselves. It seems to me that this and your short skis can help quite a few people experience carving.

 

Present yourself as having a new idea and evidence a passion for that and you kind of paint a target on your back for all the snipers out there but I think you're on to something. I think many people feel you are showing and describing something they have already experienced without the use of these devices. I suspect quite a few still may have a lot to learn in that regard but also that there are quite a few others whom your approach could reach.

 

If I could add a suggestion it would be to play with rounding your turns more, carry the skis across the hill in a more complete arc at times. As I think you pointed out, the carving skis do much less to control your speed so the direction you travel becomes significant in controlling your speed as the steepness of the hill increases. So the path you travel will be doing the speed control in the context of a much freer sensation.


Edited by oisin - 6/18/12 at 11:11am
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post #70 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

 

Nothing will change the fact you live a life of quiet desperation. And your avatar sucks hard.

 

Not to get all focused on etiquette, but to me this crosses a line.  You have absolutely no way of extrapolating that anyone lives a "quiet life of desperation."   

 

Further, your statement had nothing to do with the post to which you were replying. 

 

Heartcarve, many of your posts appear defensive.  Well, you created this thread and asked for feedback. You got your feedback.  Most people initially welcomed your enthusiasm and enjoyment of what you're doing on the snow, at the same time declined to accept the premise that this applies to themselves and their skiing future.  You must have considered the possibility that your prior experience on TGR might be duplicated here.   It could appear you were deliberately provoking negative responses; giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you hoped this would be a kinder, gentler skiing forum.  Regardles, by making personal attacks on any member of this forum, you're losing credibility.  

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post #71 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:12am

Well, your video does not do much justice for your idea.

 

I'd have to go ride with you to feel what you write about.  It seems I can do everything you did on my 184 MX 98s just fine.  

 

I'd like to see you in bumps and steeps with crud and obstacles.

 

PS I love pole plants, but love no poles even more.

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post #72 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

 

Not to get all focused on etiquette, but to me this crosses a line.  You have absolutely no way of extrapolating that anyone lives a "quiet life of desperation."   

 

Further, your statement had nothing to do with the post to which you were replying. 

 

Heartcarve, many of your posts appear defensive.  Well, you created this thread and asked for feedback. You got your feedback.  Most people initially welcomed your enthusiasm and enjoyment of what you're doing on the snow, at the same time declined to accept the premise that this applies to themselves and their skiing future.  You must have considered the possibility that your prior experience on TGR might be duplicated here.   It could appear you were deliberately provoking negative responses; giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you hoped this would be a kinder, gentler skiing forum.  Regardles, by making personal attacks on any member of this forum, you're losing credibility.  

 

Are you on Jury duty at the moment? Seems like it and Beyond is acting as prosecutor. haha, I should arrange Queen's counsel for posting here from now onward. Anyway, watch this space. It's all my fault, haha. TGR and Newschoolers are cool, I knew it would get all personal here that's why I saved it for last.

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post #73 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

Heartcarve

I think your pole cam could be an effective device for communicating what you are trying to show to other skiers but also provide comparative feedback for these folks who are teaching themselves. It seems to me that this and your short skis can help quite a few people experience carving.

 

Present yourself as having a new idea and evidence a passion for that and you kind of paint a target on your back for all the snipers out there but I think you're on to something. I think many people feel you are showing and describing something they have already experienced without the use of these devices. I suspect quite a few still may have a lot to learn in that regard but also that there are quite a few others whom your approach could reach.

 

If I could add a suggestion it would be to play with rounding your turns more, carry the skis across the hill in a more complete arc at times. As I think you pointed out, the carving skis do much less to control your speed so the direction you travel becomes significant in controlling your speed as the steepness of the hill increases. So the path you travel will be doing the speed control in the context of a much freer sensation.

Thank you for your feedback, oisin. I really appreciate, you might even be a gentleman and a scholar.

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post #74 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

 

I want to sell a few pairs of the first generation ski not so much to make money but to see how other people manage.

 

 

Well it looks like everyone is on board... when will you begin production so we can place our orders?

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post #75 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

Trekchick - I am in control but the skis are telling me "I have a 16m radius turning circle, so only do 16m radius turns around the mountain, and you'll have to be going at a certain speed eg 30mph to have the turns feel natural within that turn." At that point I'm limited to 16m radius turns at 30mph to be heartcarving (although the run pitch can alter this optimal speed.) If I break out of that speed and radius, I won't be carving in the way the ski is designed. Although, in reality I know I personally can vary this speed and radius due to the planes of movement I've devised to bend and pressure the ski to get more out of it. So yes, doing 30mph across an entire mountain all day might be too fast for my liking. I can slow down, but I don't want to, nor do I want to speed up and risk washing out - each case the desire for poles returns.
 
But I had another idea, and that is to create courses which consist of cones that demand turns from slalom, to GS to Super G to a Downhill like route all in the 1 run. Now that's something new. It may involve some skier-x type banks and jumps (which personally I am not drawn to because I don't want to risk injury.) The cones would have some type of sensor that would detect your ski tip. At the end of the day you can see how well you went across the mountain. Perhaps the courses could be taken in groups like skier x.
 
So I wonder who would perform best, would the heartcarvers take the top spots?

Sorry heartcarve, bad comment!  I can do what you do on long straight skis (I'm sure that there are a few others can do the same).   If the ski is limiting your ability, then your ability is not up to par. Trckchick has it correct, you should be able to ski whatever and do whatever you want if you're good.  My only equipment limitations are when the ski can not handle the input (ie. over powering beginner/intermediate level skis)  otherwise the skis do what I want I just have to adapt.

 

205s 200s, 176s, GS, SL, DH, FIS, Straight, Shaped doesn't matter,  I can ski.  Doesn't matter if its 10mph or 50mph, I'll ski it the same.  If I can't, I gotta work at it to improve my skill set.

 

As to short skis taking the top spots,  follow the comments re the new FIS rules, based on what is being written, long skis are faster despite the longer turning radius (again the athletes are adapting).  It's going to be interesting next season, to see how it plays out.

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post #76 of 89
6/18/12 at 11:43am

Wow! Great train wreck of a thread!  

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post #77 of 89
6/18/12 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 

I want to thank everyone for posting here your comments and giving me much to think about. Thank you for taking the time to do so. There's not much more I can add at this point. I think there's only so much back and forth that can take place until it stops being constructive.

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post #78 of 89
6/18/12 at 1:25pm

A couple thoughts here:

  1. Racers (at least serious ones) are limited to skis that obey the equipment rules that the FIS has laid down.  Your heart-carvers don't come close to matching the FIS regulations, so no racer would be interested in them.
  2. Most people (here in the USA at least) consider racing and carving "boring" and would rather be skiing trees, powder, park, etc.  Or at least they'd like to imagine they could ski those areas, so they buy their equipment accordingly (to what the ski shop guy said would be "good" for "everywhere on the mountain").
  3. Once you get away from packed snow (i.e., groomers and hard bumps), the limitations of short skis become apparent very quickly unless you have exceptional fore / aft balance skills.
  4. Skis designed for carving groomers (i.e., race skis, carving skis, etc.) have narrow waists as (all things being equal) a narrow waisted ski will have better edge grip than a wide one..  You seem to have combined opposite traits -- i.e., short (good for short radius carving) and wide (which generally sucks for carving).
  5. Your skiing shows what is frankly pretty minimal edge angles.  My impression of your skiing is that you've created a ski with a small turning radius in order to compensate for your inability to truly carve a traditional ski (i.e., lay it way over, bend the crap out of it, and hang on).
  6. Your discussion of skiing technique has shown only a rudimentary understanding of skiing.  You have not posted anything that's "new" or "revolutionary".

 

As I said earlier -- I think that it's great that you find heart-carving to be fun.  If you find powder / off-piste to be "not your thing", well, great -- more powder for me.  icon14.gif

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post #79 of 89
6/18/12 at 2:23pm

7. stop using your back in #3.   Try doing everything you're doing /just/ with your feet.      (Slightly softer boots  will help with this).     Start playing with wider stances and more bent knees.

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post #80 of 89
6/18/12 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

Sorry heartcarve, bad comment!  I can do what you do on long straight skis...

 

I'd love to see a video of you arcing turns on long straight skis. I don't think you can do it.

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post #81 of 89
6/18/12 at 4:46pm

groomergrl.jpg

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post #82 of 89
6/18/12 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

 

I'd love to see a video of you arcing turns on long straight skis. I don't think you can do it.

I'll have to look, think I may have one from about 18 years ago. Mind you radius are about 30-40m, Maybe a little tighter for a couple while the legs lasted.  Just keep them short and narrow almost fall line.  Just as fun, with a lot more work and effort.  Shaped skis let me do what I was doing in my early 20's biggrin.gif without the pain at the end of the day.

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post #83 of 89
6/18/12 at 5:34pm

How about these?

 

SnowCatFeet.jpg

 

I was rockin' RED diamonds on those babies..

 

SnowCatDad.jpg

 

But, I was also using polesredface.gif

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post #84 of 89
6/18/12 at 5:52pm

^^^^ Now that lower picture, with the Herminator fixed glare, shows the terrifying potential of "terminal velocity" skis. If I saw those babies near the gates, I'd just give up and ski off in search of an early beer...

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post #85 of 89
6/19/12 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

^^^^ Now that lower picture, with the Herminator fixed glare, shows the terrifying potential of "terminal velocity" skis. If I saw those babies near the gates, I'd just give up and ski off in search of an early beer...

Don't forget the Teutonic headgear has to help, it's just gotta help with the aerodynamics, if you can wear that you can ski anything....I mean anything.biggrin.gif

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post #86 of 89
6/19/12 at 6:02pm

Actually, the headgear is integral to the poorly known "Headcarve" technique that allows you to the next level +1. In which you relax your legs sufficiently to carve with your head. The trunk remains supple and in dynamic rotation around the head - a post PSIA technique known as eggbeating - while the mind concentrates on the sacred syllables: "OOOOmmmm mmyygodddd." At terminal velocities, the head and heart become cosmically polarized and anatomically interchangeable in the snow-space-time continuum, as well as afterwards in the ER when the various body parts are collected for a suitably New Age service. 

 

Feeeeel the Head...

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post #87 of 89
6/19/12 at 7:55pm

Oh jeeze. Beyond, that was great. 

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post #88 of 89
6/19/12 at 8:11pm

Well, you seem to be getting the idea of carving.  Try it at speed with real skis; it's more fun that way.

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post #89 of 89
6/19/12 at 8:32pm

I realize it's summer, but why are folks still posting in a thread where the drive-by OP has checked out over 10 posts ago?  I hope he has fun on the hill; I hope we all do.  beercheer.gif Cheers to injury-free, collision-free turns next year...  

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