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heartcarving - a new way to ski - Page 2

post #31 of 89
6/16/12 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoal007 View Post

lol more like hart sliding. this sucks and has been beaten to death on tgr. I'm glad its getting the same reception here.


^This.  I saw about 200 feet of "maching," which could be much faster on real skis.  Heartcarve, look at some videos on TGR to see how to ski with some speed, it's fun.  One can also ski on "ungroomed" snow which snacks on little sticks.  Use poles.

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post #32 of 89
6/16/12 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

I think you're onto something with the pole cam technique. My only reservation is holding onto a pointy stick with the stick pointing down the hill. If you should drop the stick and it gets caught in the snow you could be impaled. I know it sounds unlikely but I was in a clinic once where the clinician had us pointing our ski poles forward for some reason. My pole caught the snow and I got a ski pole grip in the eye, not with any great force fortunately or I'd have been minus an eye.

 

Yes. Could the other pole-free carvers manage the polecam? Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

 

You might have been struck in the eye due to the pole strap keeping it attached to your hand. I kept the pole to either side of me, but I rarely fall, the only time I had major fall was when I was testing the ski limits.

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post #33 of 89
6/16/12 at 4:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post


^This.  I saw about 200 feet of "maching," which could be much faster on real skis.  Heartcarve, look at some videos on TGR to see how to ski with some speed, it's fun.  One can also ski on "ungroomed" snow which snacks on little sticks.  Use poles.

Trying not to get into fights with people with low self-esteem but I can pickup poles any day, can you drop yours? What are you doing when no powder, whinging?

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post #34 of 89
6/16/12 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

 I rarely fall, the only time I had major fall was when I was testing the ski limits.

 

 

 

 

  I can only imagine what those limits must be.  How do they do in the bumps?  Glad you're having fun, but I won't be waiting for you.  I'll meet up with you later after I'm done skiing

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post #35 of 89
6/16/12 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Glad you're having fun, but I won't be waiting for you.  I'll meet up with you later after I'm done skiing

 

Okay, meet for a Schnapps then.

 

Bumps are easy because the radius is only about 6-7m on the Marauders. Don't the best bumps skiers blunt down their edges? I wouldn't want to do that though.

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post #36 of 89
6/16/12 at 5:10pm
"154 Atomic Metrons" - man, I wish I still had mine. Gave them to my tiny (4'10") gf of the time. Made me feel like a genius.
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post #37 of 89
6/16/12 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by evansilver View Post

"154 Atomic Metrons" - man, I wish I still had mine. Gave them to my tiny (4'10") gf of the time. Made me feel like a genius.


How about some practically new

Volkl SL Race skis (P70) - 156cm

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post #38 of 89
6/16/12 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

 

 

This is sophistry. Do you have any vids of you skiing?

 

Sort of.

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post #39 of 89
6/16/12 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post

 

Sort of.

 

 

Good one to show the grand kids of what snow looked like once upon a time!

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post #40 of 89
6/16/12 at 6:07pm

Um, that just doesn't look fun.

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post #41 of 89
6/16/12 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post

 

Sort of.


That Outhouse?  You'd really <3 some 7 meter snow blades there.

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post #42 of 89
6/16/12 at 7:58pm

Deep snow is an obvious limitation but I don't see any problem with short skis on hardpack. They are more difficult to maintain balance on, fore and aft but otherwise allow for quite a bit of athleticism as long as speed is kept down.  When I was teaching we used to go out on short soft rental skis once and awhile and have a lot of fun. With water injected courses on the World Cup, the soft snow limitations of shorter skis went away. These guys have the athleticism and skill to stay on a pair of short skis without getting catapulted over backwards. The FIS mandated minimum lengths for slalom skis I suspect because otherwise some of these guys would be on skis that were little more than ice skates. The idea that you cannot carve on short skis on hard snow is bogus I think.

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post #43 of 89
6/16/12 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

Trying not to get into fights with people with low self-esteem but I can pickup poles any day, can you drop yours? What are you doing when no powder, whinging?

Sorry, I was harsh.  My ego has the other problem, way too inflated.  I haven't used poles for 32 years, but wish I could!  Same story with powder, but that's because I'm so far from good mountains.  As much as I love powder, I can seldom get to it now.  I do run into really thick crud a lot, which is the biggest problem I see with such short skis.  Well, that and air.  Longer (ie normal) skis win in this whole discussion, if only because they forgive errors.

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post #44 of 89
6/17/12 at 12:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

as long as speed is kept down.

I agree. I found when I was on longer skis (173cm with around 16m radius) then the sweet spot speed for carves was way too high for my liking. Seemed unsafe as essentially less time to devise the route down (heartcarving is about terminal velocity), the route less malleable and ski less responsive overall (and yes they do forgive errors.) I think I scared people. Thicker skis are also good. Shorter skis do have problems like less spray power (as do longer ones.) I am fairly set in my mind what sort of ski I want next... there is no winner and loser in all this... although many people fight what takes away their power.


Edited by heartcarve - 6/17/12 at 2:36am
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post #45 of 89
6/17/12 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

I agree. I found when I was on longer skis (173cm with around 16m radius) then the sweet spot speed for carves was way too high for my liking. Seemed unsafe as essentially less time to devise the route down (heartcarving is about terminal velocity), the route less malleable and ski less responsive overall (and yes they do forgive errors.) I think I scared people. Thicker skis are also good. Shorter skis do have problems like less spray power (as do longer ones.) I am fairly set in my mind what sort of ski I want next... there is no winner and loser in all this... although many people fight what takes away their power.

I'm a little confused.  Are you saying that you are at the mercy of the skis?  

I thought that good technique helps to be in control through turn shape, and that the skier is in control of bending the ski, and shaping the turn.  th_dunno-1[1].gif

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post #46 of 89
6/17/12 at 7:21am

Just read through the TGR thread. Ten pages of pure gold, simply brilliant. If anyone has some time to waste and needs a laugh, go read it.  
 

( http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/239850-The-Future-of-Skiing-(vid-of-skiboard-carving-14-31)/page10 )

I'm not entirely convinced you're a troll, but it doesn't matter, you're my hero from this day forth. 

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post #47 of 89
6/17/12 at 7:32am

Looking at the Heartcarve's vid reminds me of turning on Hockey Skates (oh yah, the skates have a reverse camber and the blades are short).  Must be a Canadian thing EH? biggrin.gif

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post #48 of 89
6/17/12 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

I'm a little confused.  Are you saying that you are at the mercy of the skis?  

I thought that good technique helps to be in control through turn shape, and that the skier is in control of bending the ski, and shaping the turn.  th_dunno-1%5B1%5D.gif

 

Without wanting to get deeply into it, the best analogy is a bike with large wheels vs a bike with small ones. Smaller means lower cruising speed without falling over.
 
It also means more stability at lower speeds to do quicker turns. But it will slide out sooner in turns than a bigger wheeled bike at higher speeds.
 
Also, think about a car with a smaller steering wheel vs a car with a bigger one (but with the same turning circle) ... a smaller steering wheel means more responsive to smaller movements.
 
So continuing with the analogy, I'm looking for a bike with the perfect sized wheels and the perfect length handlebars to make cruising around bulk of the city the most fun, natural and exhilarating, so much so that I don't care about doing crazy stuff.. even ironically though with the perfect bike, all that should become easier to do anyhow... the bike will be more an extension of me.
 
--
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post #49 of 89
6/17/12 at 8:43am

I wonder if cooking forums have threads like these.  'I came up with a new method of cooking, using a lightbulb for heat.  You can only warm up small pastries but it avoids the mess and complication of traditional methods.' 

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post #50 of 89
6/17/12 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

 

Without wanting to get deeply into it, the best analogy is a bike with large wheels vs a bike with small ones. Smaller means lower cruising speed without falling over.
 
It also means more stability at lower speeds to do quicker turns. But it will slide out sooner in turns than a bigger wheeled bike at higher speeds.
 
Also, think about a car with a smaller steering wheel vs a car with a bigger one (but with the same turning circle) ... a smaller steering wheel means more responsive to smaller movements.
 
So continuing with the analogy, I'm looking for a bike with the perfect sized wheels and the perfect length handlebars to make cruising around bulk of the city the most fun, natural and exhilarating, so much so that I don't care about doing crazy stuff.. even ironically though with the perfect bike, all that should become easier to do anyhow... the bike will be more an extension of me.
 
--

I guess what puzzles me are these  points: 

I've spent a lot of time getting good instruction so that I control the speed with my ability to bend the ski and control turn shape.  

If you're feeling like a ski as long as *gasp* 173cm is too fast to enjoy, then perhaps you're not driving the ski.   Who's in control - you or the ski?  

 

That being said, one of my instructors talked about finding neutral on the ski, which was a lesson on skiing the length of the boot/binding area of the ski and working from there.  Perhaps shorter skis like yours could be a learning tool, but I'd avoid using them as a daily driver. 

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post #51 of 89
6/17/12 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

 

Without wanting to get deeply into it, the best analogy is a bike with large wheels vs a bike with small ones. Smaller means lower cruising speed without falling over.
 
It also means more stability at lower speeds to do quicker turns. But it will slide out sooner in turns than a bigger wheeled bike at higher speeds.
 
Also, think about a car with a smaller steering wheel vs a car with a bigger one (but with the same turning circle) ... a smaller steering wheel means more responsive to smaller movements.
 
So continuing with the analogy, I'm looking for a bike with the perfect sized wheels and the perfect length handlebars to make cruising around bulk of the city the most fun, natural and exhilarating, so much so that I don't care about doing crazy stuff.. even ironically though with the perfect bike, all that should become easier to do anyhow... the bike will be more an extension of me.
 
--

I guess what puzzles me are these  points: 

I've spent a lot of time getting good instruction so that I control the speed with my ability to bend the ski and control turn shape.  

If you're feeling like a ski as long as *gasp* 173cm is too fast to enjoy, then perhaps you're not driving the ski.   Who's in control - you or the ski?  

 

That being said, one of my instructors talked about finding neutral on the ski, which was a lesson on skiing the length of the boot/binding area of the ski and working from there.  Perhaps shorter skis like yours could be a learning tool, but I'd avoid using them as a daily driver. 


I use my shorties for Adaptive and  training. Like you said skiing from the center of the ski,cause there's not much of a tail back there.

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post #52 of 89
6/17/12 at 11:48am
Thread Starter 
Trekchick - I am in control but the skis are telling me "I have a 16m radius turning circle, so only do 16m radius turns around the mountain, and you'll have to be going at a certain speed eg 30mph to have the turns feel natural within that turn." At that point I'm limited to 16m radius turns at 30mph to be heartcarving (although the run pitch can alter this optimal speed.) If I break out of that speed and radius, I won't be carving in the way the ski is designed. Although, in reality I know I personally can vary this speed and radius due to the planes of movement I've devised to bend and pressure the ski to get more out of it. So yes, doing 30mph across an entire mountain all day might be too fast for my liking. I can slow down, but I don't want to, nor do I want to speed up and risk washing out - each case the desire for poles returns.
 
But I had another idea, and that is to create courses which consist of cones that demand turns from slalom, to GS to Super G to a Downhill like route all in the 1 run. Now that's something new. It may involve some skier-x type banks and jumps (which personally I am not drawn to because I don't want to risk injury.) The cones would have some type of sensor that would detect your ski tip. At the end of the day you can see how well you went across the mountain. Perhaps the courses could be taken in groups like skier x.
 
So I wonder who would perform best, would the heartcarvers take the top spots?
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post #53 of 89
6/17/12 at 3:17pm
Anton Gliders would be my ski of choice for the variable course you propose. Except for the price and weight.

Ski size is just one variable in the design of a ski. I had some really short Kneissel White Stars (160 cm) back in the 70s. They weren't very much fun and were quite limited by conditions. My current Volkl Racetiger SL 165cm rock. While they won't go out in powder, they are fun in lots of different situations, from bumps to racing. Technology and design savvy made these short skis great. Perhaps Snollerblade advances will make them more all around fun.

Sorry if I think these are Snollerblades. With that said, I really want Snollerblades to play on. Advances in performance would certainly sway my purchase decision. Keep working on it. Ballet anyone?

Eric
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post #54 of 89
6/17/12 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

But I had another idea, and that is to create courses which consist of cones that demand turns from slalom, to GS to Super G to a Downhill like route all in the 1 run.  Now that's something new. It may involve some skier-x type banks and jumps...
...So I wonder who would perform best, would the heartcarvers take the top spots?

Like this?

http://www.freeskiingworldtour.com/Kirkwood qualifier

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post #55 of 89
6/17/12 at 5:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post

Like this?

http://www.freeskiingworldtour.com

hmm maybe. Any run where cones can be laid, so I suppose if you laid cones on that run you'd take the Free out of freeskiing, but the first skier would be free, the rest would follow their track.. hmm.. I was more thinking of having a cone park and doing cone carving.

 

More like a carving cup course http://www.navaski.com/competizioni/video.html but with much more variable routes ie, long turns mixed with short ones, and all blended in with each other. Perhaps a few jumps thrown in too and some moguls and drops! So it becomes more a training field for skiing the entire mountain.


Edited by heartcarve - 6/17/12 at 6:03pm
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post #56 of 89
6/17/12 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

I certainly hope not, and it's here if anyone wants to read it. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/239850-The-Future-of-Skiing-(vid-of-skiboard-carving-14-31)

 

That said, it helps me clarify things in my mind. The energy helps me push it all forward. And, it will all be a base to launch the ski. 

Translation: "I'm trying to get a lot of people irritated enough they'll remember my pitch."

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post
Yeah the goal is to go terminal velocity through all that, to carve through it all. I'll need to get some footage of it.

I'd love to see you going terminal velocity through trees in fresh snow. Oh, sorry, forgot. Powder, racing, parks, all that stuff is for younger skiers who got sidetracked...

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

This is sophistry. Do you have any vids of you skiing?

Sophistry refers to a false argument. He's not making an argument. He's making fun of you. eek.gif Whether he has a video has no bearing, unless you're trying to argue that whoever's the best skier here is right. Good luck on that one, since we have over 11,000 members and uh, you're not a threat to the vast majority of them. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

Fantastic avatar. Did you have any reservations that you might be rejected from the forum due to its profundity?

You're better off not trying for sarcasm, comes across as labored. Not to mention ignorant, if you'd bother to go count the number of respected members who don't bother with their own avatars.

 

In sum, after only 18 posts, you've managed to devolve from throw-back amusing to throw-back boring. Suggest being contentious somewhere else. Newschoolers would love you. wink.gif

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post #57 of 89
6/17/12 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Quote:

You're better off not trying for sarcasm, comes across as labored. Not to mention ignorant, if you'd bother to go count the number of respected members who don't bother with their own avatars.

 

Nothing will change the fact you live a life of quiet desperation. And your avatar sucks hard.

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post #58 of 89
6/17/12 at 7:34pm

I think short skis like these have a place, even for those who are going to move on to longer skis for the versatility and control in a range of conditions that the longer skis afford. A big part of learning to use any ski well is developing a good, balanced and centered stance. Most skiers are in the backseat at least part of the time and many people move fore and aft far more than is required. A really short ski is bound to be unforgiving of this. In addition many people have difficulty making the committed lateral movements that advanced skiing demands. A big part of their difficulty lies in the fact that they have developed an awareness that the skis may not respond to this movement (probably because they are in the back seat) and they could fall over. The fact that very short skis pretty much demand a centered stance and the awareness that these skis can be turned by twisting them if required encourages people to attempt the lateral movements that carving calls for. Ironically turning the skis by twisting them is most emphatically not what carving turns is about but sometimes you have to put people in their comfort zone by enabling the bad habits they associate with survival in order to allow them to progress.

 

Other than that I think Heartcarve has simply hit upon the pleasure of carving. Anything that allows more skiers to experience that is a good thing in my opinion.

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post #59 of 89
6/17/12 at 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartcarve View Post

Nothing will change the fact you live a life of quiet desperation. And your avatar sucks hard.

 

Ooooh. I'm wounded...ROTF.gif

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post #60 of 89
6/17/12 at 8:42pm

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/239850-The-Future-of-Skiing-(vid-of-skiboard-carving-14-31)?p=3562117#post3562117

 

I love the part where you straight line through the lift corral. That was rad. 

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