The cost of carrying skis is killing me! - Page 2

Usually those CC's are associated with specific airlines.  I know Delta has an American Express card that builds points and includes free checked bags. 

Not surfboards.

 

Uh... what?  Baggage handling costs money.  If you build a large baggage allowance into the base fare, then people carrying less luggage subsidize the ones who want to bring everything they own with them.  The 'unsubsidized' way is that you pay for your own baggage.

 

You could argue that they shouldn't be earning much or any profit on baggage fees, though, and IMO that's a legitimate gripe.  Sometimes you HAVE to bring a lot of stuff with you, and it would be nice not to get totally screwed at those times.

 

 

You're ignoring that fuel prices are far higher than they were in the 90s, and as pointed out, inflation-adjusted fares are actually down.  Some legacy carriers also have developed structural issues like high retiree healthcare/pension costs -- which are, of course, their own fault, but they still have to pay for them.  One of the reasons for going into bankruptcy can be to restructure those sorts of costs.

 

Also, part of the reason flights are "always full" is that they've been cutting back on service in a lot of places and closing down less-profitable routes.  e.g. local to me, Southwest doesn't fly BOS<->PHL anymore, so their connections through other airports in the Northeast are carrying more traffic (as are other flights still taking that route).

 

 

Part of the 'irrationality' is that with online comparison shopping, all the airlines desperately want to have the lowest base fare, since that is what gets displayed and sorted by on sites like Expedia, Travelocity, Kayak, etc.  They don't get compared directly on fees.  That's an extra incentive for airlines to nickel and dime you for things rather than building them into the base fare.

 

I know everyone loves to bitch and moan and airlines are an easy and unpopular target, but frankly there's a reasonable amount of competition in most places and you can usually get where you need to go at a decent price.  At least if you're a little flexible.

I might buy into the subsidy argument if oversized baggage fees were the only fees implemented. But there are also regular baggage fees, which affect nearly every passenger. Airlines only have so much leeway in raising fares (raise them too much and casual flyers stay home), and as Matthias points out, that leeway is less than ever because of Internet comparison shopping. So they cut costs and raise fees to increase revenue.  I really don't see anything wrong with charging extra for heavy, awkward bags that are more laborious and expensive to transport. Perhaps those fees can get out of hand, as in the OP, but the consumer still has the power to not lug along his bike/boat/ski quiver/etc. - he's not a victim.

 

It's not like it's the only industry that adds fees, and considering the fact that it's lost billions of dollars over the past 10 or 15 years, it's difficult to see what people are bitching about. Flying can still be pretty damn cheap when compared to driving, taking a train, etc.

Edited by JoeUT - 6/12/12 at 11:52am

 

Because there wasn't a huge imposition by way of skyrocketing fuel costs since 9/11? You're simply wrong on all accounts. The industry has lost about 60 billion dollars since regulation, based on a statistic from this paper that's cited all over the media. 9/11 wasn't just a blip on the radar, and it certainly wasn't the only obstacle that's caused the industry problems.

 

People whine about all the fees, but the other option is to spike ticket prices to where they should be. I'd rather have the option of packing lightly and traveling cheap than enduring a huge increase straight out of the gate, not to mention that it's a better strategy (i.e. not scaring people away with double-priced fares). Also, major airlines' hands are forced by smaller carriers like Southwest that don't operate on the same scale and don't have the same costs.

 

 

 

And my granola bar and Irish Springs are smaller than they were 10 years ago, I don't get a lollipop at the bank anymore, and businesses of all kinds have scaled back costs. I think people traveling internationally can afford to throw down a few bucks on a whiskey and bring a sandwich.

 

Dude, you may look clean-cut and all, but remember that you have an accent like Boris Badenov and you sometimes stutter. To those of us who grew up during the cold war, you sound like the worst cartoon villain ever, plus we think you're trying to make up something mid-sentence. I'm sorry to say this, but I'd probably hassle you if I were one of those narrow minded ass wipes they employ at TSA. If you just had darker skin and maybe some two-day old facial hair, you'd be the quintessential terrorist type. When I used to travel with a swarthy looking friend, he always got stopped and I never did. Customs and TSA people have been profiling for ages.

 

But does she know, where is moose and squirrel? 

 

Surfboard was free for me last time I went from Oakland to San Diego.

 

Amen to this.  I know they've had to take cuts in pay and benefits, but Good God, can the desk agents and flight attendants ever be surly, rude, dismissive, and even downright sarcastically snotty asswipes anymore.  I rarely ask for anything since I just wanna doze and read, but way too often heaven help those who call them or have the temerity to ask even a simple question.  The lead attendant on a recent Delta flight I took was such an unnecessarily bitchy shrew that I noted her name with the intent of writing a letter of complaint to Delta.  After landing, though, like most, I just wanted the ordeal to be over, and my inherent laziness got the better of me, so I never did do it.  I'm pretty laid-back, and I can't recall ever writing a letter of complaint to anyone, but that piece of work came closest to ending that streak.  I would even accept a modestly higher fare just to have pleasant, courteous, and helpful airline staff....but we shouldn't have to pay extra for what costs nothing.  I don't expect them to kiss my ass, but just everyday common courtesy and a modicum of politeness would be nice....

 

The funny thing is that I know European airlines are facing the same difficulties, yet every time I fly one, the desk agents and flight attendants are wonderful.  My only experience is with British Airways but a LOT more with KLM, but the difference is so markedly pronounced that all else about a choice of competing flights being equal, I would fly KLM over any domestic carrier even if that meant a pretty fair increase in the fare...(pun intended) , and I'm certainly not rich!  All personnel at that airline (and B.A.) have been nothing but polite, very helpful, pleasant, personable...hell, even chipper more often than not.  

 

YMMV, but my experience has been that American cabin crews and desk agents more often than not ADD to the stress of flying, whereas European cabin crews and desk agents unfailingly and significantly LESSEN the stress of flying.  As a result I shill for KLM whenever the opportunity arises...or B.A. based on my more limited experience with them.  I'm flying from Spokane, WA, to Barcelona, Spain, in September.  It will entail about 100 extra bucks and 1 extra stop, but I'll be flying KLM.

Fly KLM, Everybody!  ....or any Euro airline, I suspect.

 

I will give one tip 'o the hat to Delta, though.  Their checked ski bag just costs the same as any other extra bag, AND they count the ski bag and boot bag as one.  I've never had a problem with them on that front.  Don't even ask me about American Airlines, though.....ugh.  Rant Over.  

It makes plenty of sense. The prices are so high in your case because you're flying halfway around the world. I don't think they're that outrageous for continental ski-flight routes. That being said, just look at your argument - 'I think prices ridiculous but I'm bringing my skis anyway'. I'm sure you're not the only one, and I doubt there's that much more revenue to be had by adjusting the numbers. The number of skiers hauling skis from the UK to Canada is certainly of little consequence to the airlines either way, but an across-the-board policy of charging for oversized bags based on whatever formula they use brings in revenue.

 

No matter what the specific pricing is, some people have a threshold (i.e. they'll rent until it becomes cheaper to pay the baggage fee), others don't (i.e. they want to use their skis, period [you] ). The airlines are going to get a percentage of the former and all of the latter. I don't know how much work the airlines have done to get the fees just right, where the price/number of customers is optimized to maximize revenue, but the fees certainly make more money than no fees at all.

 

Is it a generational thing? I know the airlines used to really go out of their way with customer service, but I've never experienced it and don't expect it. All I really ever want from an airline is to fly me to where I need to go as quickly, safely and cheaply as possible. They can save the free meals, booze and perky flight attendants. On most flights, I don't even think flight attendants are all that necessary. Things like an attendant "willing to help" doesn't even compute - willing to help with what? I don't expect any help on the train or subway, so what's different about a plane? Just leave me be, let me take a nap or read and wake me when we're there.

Back to the OP...... I'm sure he got a killer deal on the air fares and didn't read the fine print on luggage restrictions.  I've flown to go skiing every year for the past six years (New Zealand, USA, Japan Kashmir/India) and have always taken a double ski bag with me and only once have I been charged excess baggage (leaving India).

 

Fatalistic? I'd argue quite the opposite. The reason I don't mind baggage fees is that they give the consumer more flexibility and power over his costs. The bottom line is that it's either spiked fares or these types of fees. If the fares go up by 50, 100 ...percent or whatever, flying is just an expensive imposition, period. With steady fares and raised fees, I have more leeway in keeping costs down (e.g. not flying with skis, bikes, gun racks; limiting my luggage; stuffing everything into a carry-on on short trips, etc.).

 

I don't really trust industry management, but there's more than enough evidence that shows it's just a near-impossible place to make a profit: huge, unavoidable costs (airplanes, maintenance, etc.) + imposing obstacles out of your control (fluctuating fuel costs, natural disasters, etc.) + fluctuating demand (poor economy, disasters, etc.) = zero room for error and you may still come up in the red. I'm sure there's been mismanagement along the way, but it's certainly not the only reason that all kinds of airlines throughout the industry can't make money. And it's not like the industry can just go away, because we need it as bad as it needs us.

 

Personally, I'm a helluva lot more pissed at Big Oil, which seems to constantly record profits while the average guy can barely afford to commute to work. The failing airline industry, which is as much a victim of Big Oil as anyone, is much less of a problem for me. I'll pay a little extra for my bags on long trips and eat before getting on the plane.

The real kicker is that airline ticket charges go into the profit and loss column and are taxed.

The airlines pay no taxes on the stupid fees for "extra" services.

Sorry, Kneale, you are sorely mistaken. Fees are a source of revenue. If the airline actually has taxable income (a dicey proposition in today's market), they will pay tax on those fees the same as if it came from ticket .

And as to why airline employees are surly, it might have something to do with having their compensation and benefits slashed. And most have lost any pensions they might have earned through bankruptcy. Granted, work rules were too rigid and costs too high for what the customer base was willing to pay, but that doesn't ease the pain those employees have been through.

I know flying is expensive especially with baggage fees today. But I spend much less for travel today than I did 20 years ago. Of course, the experience is far less satisfactory, but if people were willing to pay more for a higher class of service, don't you think an airline would've catered to that and succeeded? Oh, wait, that's what most of the mainline carriers did, and the consumer response was so overwhelming that they all landed in bankruptcy.

I don't work for an airline, but I have flown over 3 million actual miles on United alone. I don't enjoy it any longer. And I'm no longer treated as an important customer. Due to customer demand, flying has been relegated to Greyhound bus standards. So I find it somewhat ridiculous for folk to complain about airlines nickel and dimeing you when that's what customers have been doing to the airlines with the results you now see.

Of course, if you don't want to pay for your skis to come along, you could always buy a first class ticket -- I suspect they'll be checked for free then...

Mike

This is a real problem but we're hardly "exploited" by airlines. Most major airlines have gone bankrupt in the past decade and total industry profits are less than 1% of revenue so where is the room to reduce the ticket price? I live in one of the most expensive markets in the country so it's a constant complaint in my home town but there is really nothing we can do about it. Blame the TSA, blame the Arabs, blame the airlines but it's really just a dysfunctional industry dealing with security issues and fuel issues that are outside of their control.

I think it's best to look for an all vacation package that caters ski carriage or ski rentals. So that you won't be hassle.

 

Huh?  This makes no sense.  Consumers act in a model of supply and demand and will always pay the lowest rate for the same thing.

I've been pleased at how friendly most airline folks are, even those who I know are in the middle of labor/management conflicts.  The only surly folks I've run into work for BA--including the flight attendant who threatened to have me arrested when I told him my young son couldn't eat fish (and who ever thought serving fish on an airplane was a good idea?). Then there was the desk agent who got mad when my wife tried to get seat assignments for our return flight when we arrived at LHR--mad enough to cancel my wife's return flight and cause us days of grief. And plenty of just general pissedoffness. I'll pay more to fly a different airline.

 

As far as fees go JoeUT makes a good point.  It's a good thing to encourage people to travel lighter.  I would rather bring my own food unless its a transocean flight rather than have the cost of food built into the ticket.  But some airlines go to far when they charge for both checked and carryon baggage--that's just plain dishonesty in pricing.

 

Don't call me Shirley.

Ticket rates are subject to federal excise taxes. The additional fees are not. The industry collected several billions of dollars in such fees last year.

This calls for a bump