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Where exactly snow tires are required by law in Utah

post #1 of 40
6/4/12 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
I`m planning a trip to a ski resort in Utah next winter, and I`m gonna be driving and I saw at snowbird website that snow tires or chains are required during the winter months for the canyon region. But I`m not really sure where is exactly this canyon region, are the resorts Snowbird/Alta/Park City/Deer Valley part of the canyon region? Any local could shed some light here... looks like even if you drive a 4WD/AWD vehicle you are required to have snow tires. Do they require studs in the tires or the non-stud snow tires are enough? I live 5hrs away from the resort area if I drive, so I don`t plan on flying, I wanna drive and bring all my stuff and don`t worry about the hassle in the airports...
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post #2 of 40
6/4/12 at 4:00pm

It's for specific roads. Both Little Cottonwood (Snowbird, Alta) and Big Cottonwood (Brighton, Solitude) are narrow, winding canyon roads, which have the requirements you mention throughout winter, storm or not. Other mountain roads and passes, including the road up to Powder Mountain, have similar requirements. Park City's roads are flat and easy to drive, but I believe there might be some kind of restrictions on I-80 up the pass (possibly only during storms).

 

Just regular snow tires with 4WD, no studs (don't even know if studs are legal or not). To be honest, in four years and maybe 20 times going up the Cottonwoods, I've never been stopped in my 4WD with all-terrain tires. I have seen a police officer stationed there during storms, so you may have more of a problem with a 2WD. On the chance that you had a problem, you could always do the UTA park n' ride at the bottom of the canyon area.

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post #3 of 40
6/4/12 at 5:11pm

http://updsl.org/services/canyon_restrictions

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post #4 of 40
6/4/12 at 6:37pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, looks like it won't hurt getting snow tires for next winter, won't take any chance to ruin the trip or cause delays!
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post #5 of 40
6/6/12 at 2:21pm

As a newcomer to Utah this past winter, I also struggled with the legalities here.  Although I have chains for my Prius, I was planning on taking my SOs Subaru everywhere on snowy days.  She did not have snow tires on, but the car is AWD.  I finally stumbled ont he link below and the detail in bold.

 

If you use the link above, you'll see this link:

http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r920/r920-006.htm

 

Excerpt, with bold added.  Read the sides of your tires.  If they are M/S, you might be all set.  If you have a 2wd, you might not have this, but worth checking.

 

(3) When any designated highway is so restricted no vehicle shall be allowed or permitted the use of the highway, during the period between October 1 and April 30, or when conditions warrant due to adverse, or hazardous weather or roadway conditions, as determined by the Utah Department of Transportation, unless:

(a) said vehicle is equipped with either:

(i) steel link chains or have chains in possession;

(ii) mounted snow tires; (tires with an M/S designation with or without studs);

(iii) elastomeric tire chains, designed for use with radial tires; or

(iv) four-wheel drive vehicles with a minimum of two mounted snow tires.

(4) Radial tires without snow tread do not meet the requirements.

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post #6 of 40
6/6/12 at 4:31pm

Note that in addition to the general rules listed above, which apply throughout the winter, chain restrictions may be imposed during bad conditions. Then you'll need (2WD + chains) OR (4WD/AWD + snow tires), so you should have chains even if you have snows, if you plan to ride up in a 2WD during storms.

 

Not sure why the hell they don't mention that in the "demystified" page that Bill linked, since it's published by the same organization doing these alerts:

 

https://twitter.com/#!/CanyonAlerts

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post #7 of 40
6/6/12 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorvis View Post

As a newcomer to Utah this past winter, I also struggled with the legalities here.  Although I have chains for my Prius, I was planning on taking my SOs Subaru everywhere on snowy days.  She did not have snow tires on, but the car is AWD.  I finally stumbled ont he link below and the detail in bold.

 

If you use the link above, you'll see this link:

http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r920/r920-006.htm

 

Excerpt, with bold added.  Read the sides of your tires.  If they are M/S, you might be all set.  If you have a 2wd, you might not have this, but worth checking.

 

(3) When any designated highway is so restricted no vehicle shall be allowed or permitted the use of the highway, during the period between October 1 and April 30, or when conditions warrant due to adverse, or hazardous weather or roadway conditions, as determined by the Utah Department of Transportation, unless:

(i) steel link chains or have chains in possession;

 

Does that mean you don't need the iron actually on the tires?  Looks like you just have to have them available just in case.  I have AWD Forester.   I have a pair of chains that would fit, but I wouldn't run them more than a couple of miles and only if absolutely necessary.  I've rolled past several check points where signs said chains, snows, or AWD required in a couple different states and never been told I had to chain up (yet). I don't run snows either, just not too old no seasons.

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post #8 of 40
6/7/12 at 4:02am

You just need to have them in the car.  I've driven up a mountain road many times with rear wheel drive having chains in the car for "extra weight traction" lol.  However, I've also driven down once when I should have chained up; it was a bit scary.  Also consider that if conditions change, and they do, it is much easier to chain up in a parking lot at the bottom where it isn't snowing, than on the side of the road in a foot of snow.

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post #9 of 40
6/7/12 at 9:57am

I've been stopped and told to put them on!

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post #10 of 40
6/7/12 at 10:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

I've been stopped and told to put them on!

 

were you driving a 2wd or awd/4wd vehicle?
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post #11 of 40
6/7/12 at 12:19pm

Wow this thread is as confusing as the information in  the official UT clarification. It's simple:

 

If the roads are clear and there are no chain restrictions, then you just need to be carrying chains (or rolling on snow tires).

 

If there are chain restrictions, then you need to chain up your 2WD (or ride in a 4WD with snow tires).

 

In terms of how it plays out in reality: From what I've heard, they will stop you and make you put on chains in a 2WD when there are restrictions, but won't bother you in a 4WD (at least an obvious one like an SUV, you might have more trouble in a tiny Audi or something). If the road is clear, you shouldn't really have problems either way, though I really wouldn't recommend driving up in a 2WD with no chains or snows if there's a chance of snow later in the day.

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post #12 of 40
6/7/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post

 

were you driving a 2wd or awd/4wd vehicle?


2wd.

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post #13 of 40
6/7/12 at 4:32pm

FWIW an all season tire will have the M/S designation.   So all season tires meet Utah's definition of a "snow" tire.   "Real" winter tires will have the "mountain" symbol.

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post #14 of 40
6/7/12 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimH View Post

FWIW an all season tire will have the M/S designation.   So all season tires meet Utah's definition of a "snow" tire.   "Real" winter tires will have the "mountain" symbol.


Fair warning, All (NO) Season tires only really have a little extra bite for snow/ice when they're brand spankin' new.  If they have over 10K miles on them they suck just as much as regular tires do on snow.  I know that you weren't implying that they are as good as snows but thought folks asking questions should know not to trust the A/S on a sketchy day unless they are pretty new.  And, they aren't anywhere near as good as a true snow tire in good condition.

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post #15 of 40
6/7/12 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


Fair warning, All (NO) Season tires only really have a little extra bite for snow/ice when they're brand spankin' new.  If they have over 10K miles on them they suck just as much as regular tires do on snow.  I know that you weren't implying that they are as good as snows but thought folks asking questions should know not to trust the A/S on a sketchy day unless they are pretty new.  And, they aren't anywhere near as good as a true snow tire in good condition.

 

What are you defining as a "regular" tire.  In my experience, anything that isn't "all-season" (as designated by the M+S) is referred to as a "summer" tire.  And there is a *big* difference between summer tires and all seasons with some miles on them.  It's not just a tread pattern issue; the rubber compounds used in summer tires are different and can get very hard at low temps.  Even if the roads are dry and clear, summer tires can be downright dangerous in freezing temps.

 

In my definition, all-season tires are "regular" tires because that's what comes on virtually all new cars out there, outside of sports cars.

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post #16 of 40
6/9/12 at 12:39am

Apologies for semi-hijack here, but do rental companies at Salt Lake or Denver airports put M/S tires on their cars?

With the price of rentals, especially 4WD/AWD, soaring it would be nice to be able to save some lift pass $$$ by renting a 2WD with good rubber.

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post #17 of 40
6/15/12 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimintokyo View Post

Apologies for semi-hijack here, but do rental companies at Salt Lake or Denver airports put M/S tires on their cars?

With the price of rentals, especially 4WD/AWD, soaring it would be nice to be able to save some lift pass $$$ by renting a 2WD with good rubber.

Unless it's a sports car, the rentral car will have M/S tires on it.

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post #18 of 40
6/15/12 at 10:59pm

Thanks for that, Nathanvg.

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post #19 of 40
6/16/12 at 2:49pm

I had no idea that snow tiers were required! thanks for the heads up
 

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post #20 of 40
6/19/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvg View Post

Unless it's a sports car, the rentral car will have M/S tires on it.

 

It will be whatever comes OEM from the factory.  From my experience, none of the major rental agencies offer snow tires in the US.

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post #21 of 40
6/19/12 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

 

It will be whatever comes OEM from the factory.  From my experience, none of the major rental agencies offer snow tires in the US.

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to refute his statement or expand on it.  You're right, the rental won't have snow tires on it, but it will have M/S tires on it.  Which is what nathanvg said.

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post #22 of 40
6/19/12 at 9:27pm

According to the UT regulations, M/S rated "All Season" tires ARE snow tires. Any 4X4 / AWD with M/S rated tires will meet the letter of the law requirement for winter driving in UT mountains. 

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post #23 of 40
6/20/12 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to refute his statement or expand on it.  You're right, the rental won't have snow tires on it, but it will have M/S tires on it.  Which is what nathanvg said.


Just expanding for JiminT.  I always try to get away with a 2wd and IHMO, all seasons aren't snow tires. 

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post #24 of 40
6/20/12 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post

 

What are you defining as a "regular" tire.  In my experience, anything that isn't "all-season" (as designated by the M+S) is referred to as a "summer" tire.  And there is a *big* difference between summer tires and all seasons with some miles on them.  It's not just a tread pattern issue; the rubber compounds used in summer tires are different and can get very hard at low temps.  Even if the roads are dry and clear, summer tires can be downright dangerous in freezing temps.

 

In my definition, all-season tires are "regular" tires because that's what comes on virtually all new cars out there, outside of sports cars.

 

There's actually four tiers:

 

Summer                    - sucks in snow, sucks in low temps even with new tread, possibly  also suck in rain

All Season (M+S)      - OK-ish in low temps , suck in snow unless tread is *brand* new, then they just barely get by, decent in rain.

Mountain Symbol     - better in low temps,  better in snow

Dedicated Snows      -  best of the lot.

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post #25 of 40
6/20/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimintokyo View Post

Thanks for that, Nathanvg.

 

Yes, the tires will have M+S rating.    Chances are, however, that the tread will be worn and that the tires will be slippery and unreliable if they ONLY have the M+S rating and not the Severe Snow Use aka Mountain Symbol rating.

 

 

M+S ratings are only based on geometry and have zero requirements to demonstrate actual performance in cold or snow.     It is completely possible to get M+S certification for a tire with a summer compound so long as they satisfy the following geometry criteria:

 

1. New tire treads shall have multiple pockets or slots in at least one tread edge that meet the following dimensional requirements based on mold dimensions:

  • a. Extend toward the tread center at least 1/2 inch from the footprint edge, measured perpendicularly to the tread centerline.
    b. A minimum cross-sectional width of 1/16 inch.
    c. Edges of pockets or slots at angles between 35 and 90 degrees from the direction of travel.

2. The new tire tread contact surface void area will be a minimum of 25 percent based on mold dimensions.

 

Don't believe me?    Here is the spec itself:

 

http://www.rma.org/publications/tire_service_professionals/index.cfm?PublicationID=11490

 

 

Mountain Symbol tires are required to show a traction index of 110 or better when using this snow traction test:

 

http://www.astm.org/Standards/F1805.htm

 

further elaborated at:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Test%20Procedures/Associated%20Files/TP-139-02.pdf


Edited by cantunamunch - 6/20/12 at 1:32pm
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post #26 of 40
6/20/12 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Mountain Symbol     - better in low temps,  better in snow

Dedicated Snows      -  best of the lot.

 

Can you expand on what the exact difference is between these?  I have always been under the impression that the mountain and snowflake symbol *is* the definition of "snow tires".  There are plenty of varieties within that category... You can have studded, unstudded, higher speed ratings, etc. but they're all still dedicated snow tires because of the rubber compounds used and the tread patterns. Some are better in deep snow, some are better on ice, and some have better dry road manners than others.  However they all fall under the tire industry's definitely of "snow tires" and are designated as such by the mountain and snowflake.

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post #27 of 40
6/20/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post

 

Can you expand on what the exact difference is between these?

 

Durability and speed rating.    Dedicated snows will be down in the "Q", "S", "T"  range of speed ratings.     

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post
 I have always been under the impression that the mountain and snowflake symbol *is* the definition of "snow tires".  There are plenty of varieties within that category... You can have studded, unstudded, higher speed ratings, etc. but they're all still dedicated snow tires because of the rubber compounds used and the tread patterns. Some are better in deep snow, some are better on ice, and some have better dry road manners than others.  However they all fall under the tire industry's definitely of "snow tires" and are designated as such by the mountain and snowflake.

 

The "dedicated" part is key here.     "Dedicated snow tires" is a subset of "all snow tires".     

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post #28 of 40
6/20/12 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Durability and speed rating.    Dedicated snows will be down in the "Q", "S", "T"  range of speed ratings.     

 

The "dedicated" part is key here.     "Dedicated snow tires" is a subset of "all snow tires".     

 

That sounds like *your* definition, not any sort of industry standard.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  If I had a V rated snow tire like the Michelin Pilot Aplin for example, I certainly wouldn't use it year round.  To me, it is indeed a "dedicated" snow tire because it's only meant for winter use.

 

Anyway, I guess it's all a moot point because as tromano points out, UDOT defines "snow tires" as M+S, not mountain/snowflake.  And that was the original question.

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post #29 of 40
6/20/12 at 6:37pm

WTF? If there is one thing Utah has, it's sand and salt. 

biggrin.gif

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post #30 of 40
6/20/12 at 11:05pm

Funny thing is in almost 20 years of driving BCC/LCC between on four to seven-day visits December through March I can only remember one day when I wouldn't have been perfectly comfortable in a 2WD sedan...and that day I used the park'n ride!

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