Bag of Tricks -- what are the staples? - Page 2

My point is overly simplistic. The piano is not supposed to change. When it does (e.g. gets out of tune), it gets fixed vs adjusting how you play. A ski slope is always different.

 

Serious skiers should have something similar, but the drills they use should be personal and adapt to the conditions du jour, their physical condition and their intent.

Agreed... Some drills promote a more obvious movement pattern that will relate to a certain skill but of course just about any drill can be used for almost any skill depending on the focus that is given by the instructor. Seeing as all the skills are intertwined (eg. Stance & Balance will affect Pivoting... Pivoting will affect Edging...  Timing & Coordination will affect Pressure Control etc etc etc.) it only makes sense that drills will also overlap. This is why many of the drills on the toolbox list are repeated in multiple categories (but it is by no means exhaustive).

As JASP mentions you could easily get away with only knowing a small handful of drills and and adapt them to any skiers needs... (in fact I think this is a what differentiates the really experienced pros from the rest). That being said, it is nice to have more tools in your box so you can keep things fresh especially if you are coaching the same students over a long period of time. It's also nice to have a little reference tool for those days where you just need a little inspiration.

 

Keep the ideas flowing!

Actually knowing what you are trying to teach is so much more important than having hundreds of rote drills and progressions to pull out of your bag. Most newbies are spoon fed scripts but as they grow it is less about using scripted stuff and more about being able to identify issues and communicating what they would like the student to change. It's also important to understand that all changes have negative consequences as well as positive ones.

Nolo, suggesting a change in one skill pool, has an effect in the rest of the skill pools. Yin and Yang relationships exist between all of the skills clasifications. So while suggesting a change in a student's skill bias, we need to understand what that means in all of the skill pools.

I'll take a stab.

Something as simple as applying more cuff pressure to increase shovel pressure and early edge engagement with a student that has strong rotary skills can cause a washing out of the tails or loss of good edge control.

The affect. Completely negative? Maybe not but if an instructor introduces a new skill, it will and should affect other skills or movements. Knowing how the skills interact or affect other skills is important, positive or negative..

In my above example, we might introduce moving forward into the cuff of the boot and find that now we have to revisit timing of edging or maybe less rotary steering of the feet so we don't overpower the edges.

Nolo, are you suggesting replacing BERP with some other classification system?

Maybe a sequential one rather than the lateral BERP one?

Or are you talking about working within BERP?

Since you mentioned that this thread could be aimed at instructors and Certification candidates alike and probably some that are not in the "PSIA" arena, Better clarify so everyone is on the same page.

 

I did notice skinerd used slightly different terms in the matrix posted. (all valid by the way)

 

BERP = Balance, Edge, Rotary, Pressure

 

And since we are going there,

 

this one may come up as well.

 

DIRT = Duration, Intensity, Rate, Timing

 

DC

Dave's on the right track. Excessive forward levering (to create tip pressure) certainly makes tail wash more likely. It also decreases our ability to absorb terrain variations. That's why getting the tips engaged without levering presents an interesting case study. I have a couple solutions in mind and I will post them after allowing others to take a crack at how we can engage the tips without increasing cuff / tongue pressure. Nolo, I hope this exercise demonstrates that knowledge and experience are the two best tools in our bag.

tip engagement without levering into the cuff

Conversation between dchan and you
 

Another common way to create tip pressure without levering is to steer an engaged ski with the legs. No cuff pressure changes in this one though. Perhaps some side of the foot pressure changes but no big front to back stance changes.

 

How about driving the hands forward. This works especially well for those skiers who drop their hands down and aft.

 

So that's three different ways to create tip pressure without resorting to driving the shins strongly into the tongues. If we include driving the shins into the boot tongues we have four very different options and four very different lingering effects. What they all have in common is a need for a corrective measure subsequent to each move. Which is exactly what I was suggesting with my negative / positive comment Nolo.

 

With that in mind let's return to the idea of a matrix of plug and play prescriptions for a moment. It's easy to see why thirty drills quickly becomes sixty, or a hundred and twenty when we add in the subsequent corrective moves for each movement. That's how Bob's compendium became an encyclopedia instead of a pocket guide. It's also why owning ten moves and understanding all of the corrective moves you might use along with that original move is far superior to owning supeficial understanding of how to change a skills blend but ignoring the full set of consequences set up by that one change.

As far as reference maneuvers like school figures, that is exactly what the skiing portion of the cert test includes. How accurately you can ski to the tasks and produce the prescribed results is reflected in your test scores. Ask any PSIA pro for a copy of the movement descriptors for those maneuvers if you want a copy. I won't post them here without first getting their permission.

Discussion about the tasks should probably take place some where else so I'll start a new thread to discuss the specific list of PSIA Tasks.

 

Then the bag of tricks discussion can continue on it's own.

Nice collection here.  Everything relevant I had top of mind skimming through the posts was mentioned by someone except one that is no longer done much for obvious reasons.  Back in the pre helmet, straight ski, no snowboarder days we used to do something called "The Human Slalom".  It was quite common in spite of how blatantly dangerous it comes across as by today's standards.

 

 

Oh and one more that is still feasible if you can find a trail that isn't super crowded..  How about the "fishbone up the hill 100 feet" drill?  Not much technical purpose but works well on very cold days when someone's fussing about cold or cold feet and it is too busy inside to consider going inside warm up mid lesson.

 

I can't think of any negative effects of doing good pivot slips?  

 

We are simply maximizing pivoting (rotary skill), minimizing edging, neutralizing fore/aft, vertical, and lateral pressure variations to AVOID any direction changes.  Pivot slips represent one extreme on a spectrum of skill blending and mastering each end of the "pivot vs. carve" spectrum is prerequisite to expert skiing.  More skiers have difficulty with this pivoting end of the spectrum than do with the carving end, especially with modern carving ski designs making carving rather easy.  Skiing on the pivoting end of the spectrum takes more time and practice to perfect.  Some skiers even consciously and mistakedly choose to avoid this end of the spectrum believing it represents poor skiing!?  

 

In truth, mastering pivot slips represents the purest form of pivoting using the same body mechanics present in a carved turn including counter, lead and lead change.  What is missing that makes pivot slips an exercise or task rather than skiing is angulation and inclination to produce edge angle, and pressure management (ie: fore/aft leverage, up/down unweighting, and lateral weight shifts) to take advantage of some of the ski's turning design benefits.  

 

When we blend in any kind of edge angle and/or forward leverage to a pivot slip, a turn is born.  By isolating these skills and accurately changing their blending, we can precisely choose where on the pivot vs. carve spectrum we wish to ski.  Owning the whole spectrum is a mark of expert skiing.  Choosing to avoid either end is to short change your skiing versatility.

 

So back to nolo's query, "what are the negative effects of pivot slips?",   I see only positive consequences!  Well perhaps one negative consequence is lack of speed control?  The more efficiently we perform pivot slips the faster we descend the slope.  Which brings up another potential negative consequence..... "mackerel  slap"! 

 

Pivot slips are on my short list of favorite tasks because they are difficult to do well and ingrain some very desirable mechanics.

Doing the task as prescribed has no speed control.

 

That was what I was actually dinged on in my exam. doing them with little edge and allowing the speed to build up too much. I made the adjustment but that's a different story.

 

As far as a negative effect?

 

Not a whole lot other than frustration.

Bud, The lack of edge purchase is exactly what I am talking about. Each bias along that spectrum you mentioned has options but the maneuver itself imposes parameters in each skill pool. Take away edge purchase and pivot slipping, or spinning down the fall line is possible but you can't shape a turn if you do piovt slips correctly. So the negative is a lack of directional control. It may be on purpose but it is still a negative consequence. BTW, I love weems' diamond because it speaks directly about spectrums and how if you are operating in one corner you can't be operating in another.

Edited by justanotherskipro - 6/13/12 at 12:08am

 

dchan,  you are right!  doing the task perfectly places the skier very close to the edge.... the down hill edges to be exact!  This is a precarious place because as we decrease the edge angle to a minimum to maximize the side slipping and consequently increase the speed, we are in the danger zone for catching that down hill edge and high siding.

 

To your exam task, the candidate must realize that each examiner can change to some degree what they are looking for in a task.  If your examiner had you doing pivot slips in a steeper slope he/she may have intended there to be a bit more edge angle and speed control.  Just like leapers, or skating, there are some variables the examiner can use to elicit different skills or highlight areas of weakness.  The candidate should practice these tasks in different terrain and conditions as well as DIRT variations to be prepared for whatever the examiner may ask of them.  It is also important to clarify with the examiner the task parameters he/she is looking for before you demonstrate!

 

I am sorry I have side tracked this conversation a bit.  Perhaps we should begin another thread?...  This is an interesting thread which should spawn some great conversations this Summer!  Thanks nolo for getting it started!

Pivot slips have been known to cause some people to spit Kool-Aid(tm) out of their nose.

 

Just to expand a bit on the point that I believe JASP has been trying to get across... I think every good instructor realizes that we are trying to teach skills not drills. Most drills are simply exaggerations of movement patterns. Just about any drill can go bad and have a negative effect if just taught as a generic prescription but if the instructor gives a specific focus for the individual within the drill there is a much better chance of success.

 

Of course many drills are redundant in the goals and movement patterns they are trying to achieve but with such variation in how people learn, having plenty of options certainly doesn't hurt.

Oh... I think the biggest negative about pivot slips is the fact that very few people can do them well. I'm not saying I don't use them, I actually think they are key to master but I see many highly qualified pros who struggle with them... let alone the general public.

 

Of course that means they probably need to develop those skills... Any good progression ideas to slowly work students up to them?

Well, you can start with the simplest thing, side slips.  Play with falling leaves and other fore and aft balancing while side slipping.  Do this in both directions.

 

Once they have acceptable skills in that sort of side slip I'll say, "Try this."  Then I demo a sort of pivot slip thingy.  (Notice the very technical term there. )  I pivot similarly to a pivot slip, however, I don't worry about maintaining a narrow corridor.  It's really a very skidded slippy slidey turn.  Once they have that, we start narrowing the corridor.

 

How fast they pick it up depends on the skier.

Yes absolutely... perhaps the discussion got a little side tracked. I guess my point was that although I agree with what JASP has being trying to say, I also see no harm in coming up with a zillion different drills and I think this thread is a great idea to help build anyone's tool box.... Back to more drills!

Anyone?

Pivot Slips, arguably one of the most important and relevant drills to unlock expert skiing skills!

 

The most import skill developed by perfecting pivot slips is the EDGE RELEASE.  I spend many clinics during the season trying to develop this skill amongst instructors.  Pivot slips are invaluable to getting habitual sequential edge changers out of the one, two habit!

 

Boiled down to the meat of what pivot slips teach us is the edge release.  We can learn this skill from, a static skis perpendicular to the fall line position, a traverse, a forward side slip, or a christie turn finish.  The key to developing the skill of the release is to "clutch" your edges similar to using a clutch on a manual transmission!  Beginning from a static position with skis across the fall line, we need to assume a good countered position which tensions or stretches the legs and torso muscles creating some coiled energy.  This stored energy, when the torso is blocked in a stable position, via a pole plant or internal muscular effort,  can take advantage of the recoil effect when the edges are released to aid gravity in pulling the ski tips down the hill.

 

The key is letting the clutch out slowly to prevent a stall or bucking as happens in your car or motorcycle if the clutch is released to fast.  Just like your manual transmission, we begin to move as the clutch is released.  If once we begin to move, the clutch is dumped too quickly the car/bike either stalls or bucks violently.  The same is true with learning to release our ski edges simultaneously from a dead stop.  The skier must be patient even as the tips begin to seek the fall line, understanding that the edge CHANGE does not occur until AFTER the fall line.  Most skiers want to change edges way to soon causing converging skis or a sequential movement.  

 

Remember, pivot slips are NOT turns so the feet should remain pivoting around the fall line directly down hill from the starting point.  I believe most who have difficulty with this drill have difficulty understanding the mechanics which are at the opposite end of the spectrum from carving.  Skiers habitually want to feel the security of the new turn engagement before they let go of the old platform.  This thinking locks them into habitual stemming or sequential edge changes.  

 

If you have ever windsurfed you understand the concept of sub planing jibing mechanics and planing jibing turn mechanics which are very similar to skiing.  Allow me to explain.. When turning down wind on a windsurfer when the board is moving slowly and is not planing or skipping across the top of the water the sailor will move back on the board to lift the bow and weight the outside rail of the board to cause it to pivot around the turn.  Conversely, when the board is planing or skipping across the top surface of the water the turn mechanics are totally different.  Here the sailor steps forward with the back foot and weights the inside rail carving through the turn.  How does this relate to skiing?  Well when we are moving slowly (sub planing) through a series of turns with very little forward momentum the mechanics of edge change are different from when skiing fast with lots of forward momentum which permits us to simply tip the skis to the new set of edges and balance on them to carve from one turn to the next.  This is where the mechanics of the pivot slips pin points the other end of the skill blend spectrum.  Here the edge CHANGE actually occurs much later through the arc of the turn, after the fall line.  As the skier creates more forward momentum with a smaller and smaller steering angles, we move toward the planing transition.

 

Sub drills to develop the release:  A good drill I have found that facilitates this release movement is a modified falling leaf where from the backwards slip the ski tips are washed out and turn down the fall line into a forward slip to the other side followed by washing the tails out and slipping backwards again and repeat.  Again, I can not remember the name of this drill to save me?

 

More later, gotta go.

Thanks Bud, Another essential idea is the pressure doesn't change much throughout that exercise.