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polishing the scratches you can't remove. good idea?

post #1 of 32
5/31/12 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 

I have been following a practice with no confirmation that it works. When I get deep scratches in my edge, a combined gouge in the base and side surface that I cannot remove with an aggressive edge tune mostly working on the side surface, I polish it with a pencil diameter ceramic stone of about 800 grit. then I still have a "serrated" edge, that is I can feel a dent, but it is a smooth, sharp dent rather than a rough, uneven, scratchy, dull dent. I hate taking off even more material, but there's too much gone to get rid of without a grind, which I only get max once a year, anyway, so it's the lesser of two evils. or is it? any comment appreciated. IMO, it seems to work.  (wish there was a tiny arc welder you could fill edges with, or a tiny gas welder to braze fill)

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post #2 of 32
5/31/12 at 10:28am

I have also wondered about this. Then I came across some info regarding Lib Tech's "Magne Traction" which is basically making a wavy edge on purpose. Here's their description of the benefits:

 

SERRATED STEAKNIFE EDGE GRIP: Magne-Traction adds edge hold and focuses the control and power under your feet where your balance is centered. Each bump or serration is strategically sized and positioned. The most aggressive bumps are in the center near and under your boot for maximum edge hold and control. The bumps are progressively less aggressive out towards the tips and tails creating catch-free user friendly tips and tails. Magne-Traction’s incredible edge control, when combined with reCURVE’s easy turn initiation and float, make for an insanely smooth ride in all terrain and conditions from ice to pow.

 

Maybe you have created your own Magne Traction? If so, better not use that term or you might get sued.eek.gif

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post #3 of 32
5/31/12 at 11:01am

It sounds like you're quibbling over minescule amounts of damage which would be imperceptible while skiing.

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post #4 of 32
5/31/12 at 12:35pm

The only benefit I see is fewer hiding spots for moisture and hence fewer nucleation sites for rust.

 

Magnetraction is something completely different, and on a completely different scale (large fractions of an inch).  

 

 

There was a thread started by Alpinord some time ago that tried to look at the advantage micro-serration would give (on a scale of maybe 20-100spi) and whether factory finishes are therefore better than hand-tunes.     I voted 'maybe' then and I would probably vote 'no' now, because of the trapped-water-droplet problem.

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post #5 of 32
5/31/12 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

It sounds like you're quibbling over minescule amounts of damage which would be imperceptible while skiing.


I think that depends on the type of snow.

 

I know that a brand new ski with a perfect edge has a certain feel, and skis better than it ever will after the edge is damaged. So when does the edge deteriorate to the point that it (perceptibly) affects performance? I know that a couple large burrs and I can feel it clearly and in a negative way. I will stop and de-burr on the hill, and the difference is immediately apparent. aesthetic improvement of the feel of the ski on the snow.

 

I think the part I am aware of is not necessarily edge grip, which degrades gradually, but the edge not being able to travel in it's own smooth groove. I think. therefore, the polishing of the gouge in the steel, may make the edge slide smoothly in it's track. only a theory.

 

hey, this is not quibbling; it's focusing on minutiae.

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post #6 of 32
5/31/12 at 3:26pm

I hate edge dings and gouges. I basically do what you do, polish the flaw (I use diamond stones or the diamond paper that came off an old Moonflex (I think that is a 200)) until it is at least smooth and 100% free of burrs or edges that could catch. However, even in racing, I must admit that I have not noticed diminished edge hold on the ski with the edge ding or really any performance issue. I do my edges every day and the ding keeps annoying me even after it is "worked in."  I have not noticed that it changes the way the ski tracks even on very solid icy surfaces. I am sure that if I was at the real limits of holding an edge, it may come into play but I have not noticed it.

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post #7 of 32
5/31/12 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

... it seems to work. ..."

You answered your own post.

 

The more I ski, the less I worry about the tune.  Not going to stop tuning.  Just realize there are so many variables to it that the chances of the a ding making that much of a difference isn't worth it.

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post #8 of 32
5/31/12 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
The more I ski, the less I worry about the tune.  Not going to stop tuning.  Just realize there are so many variables to it that the chances of the a ding making that much of a difference isn't worth it.

 

This is essentially where I stand, though I let my edges go awhile between tunes, because it takes a fair amount of use before I begin to notice any depreciation of performance.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsirin View Post
However, even in racing, I must admit that I have not noticed diminished edge hold on the ski with the edge ding or really any performance issue.

 

I figured as much. My racing experience is minimal, and it's never on a real race prepared course, but the drag from the damage on my "race" skis is certainly greater than davluri's (seeing as I don't polish them, I just take out the raised burrs so the file won't skip, and file them sharp to the touch), and I never have noticed so much as a blip of vibration

 

Polished edges are optimum, without a doubt, but I question how sensitive one can truly be to the presence of moderate edge damage (let alone minutia). I've skied the rest of the day after hugely snaggletoothing an edge, and had no awareness of the extent of the damage until I take them off at the end of the day.

 

cantunamunch is certainly correct, a well polished edge is more resistant to rust.

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post #9 of 32
6/1/12 at 9:30am
Thread Starter 

Polishing the whole edge to 800 is not what I am asking you guys about. That would be mostly a firm snow, high speed carving concern, probably racing where your speed relative to another skier's speed is the issue. Though I will say I enjoy a brand new edge. Once I noticed my new skis made a clear buzzing sound in the snow as it carved. I was telling all my friends about it. They were like: it doesn't last. awwwwh.  (I speculate that this is the machined edge surface the factory leaves, with a pattern of striations in the steel, because I am into preserving steel and don't re-tune a perfectly acceptable factory edge on my Stocklis, Dynastars. Rossignols.)

 

What I do is take off the raised burr, which most of us agree affects the feel of the edge, and then I polish the roughness that is left in the gouge, like Vsirin said he does. I can't say with any certainty that I can feel that part of the tune, but it stands to reason that it helps.

 

Another factor is that I ski on a very rocky mountain, almost entirely rocks, scree, and solid walls of rock. We walk across rock. We ski across rock. It's what we do (rock!). So I have a lot of damage and use whatever technique available to make the ski perform and feel good on the snow.

 

I feel even a couple small burrs on any form of packed or frozen snow. (It's like having an ache that nags and annoys, or it's like when your body is dirty and sticky, with untreated cuts, a stiff joint, a tight muscle; or you have to pee or something; it just feels crappy, right? hahaha). I have to stop, pull out a 100 diamond, and deal with it on the spot. On my good (not my rock) skis that is.

 

Any comments on how an edge actually carves, slides, holds, slips, smears? What is happening where steel meets snow? I once heard it involves temperature generated by friction. Is that just on ice?

 

Thanks for the comments

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

 

This is essentially where I stand, though I let my edges go awhile between tunes, because it takes a fair amount of use before I begin to notice any depreciation of performance.

 

 

I figured as much. My racing experience is minimal, and it's never on a real race prepared course, but the drag from the damage on my "race" skis is certainly greater than davluri's (seeing as I don't polish them, I just take out the raised burrs so the file won't skip, and file them sharp to the touch), and I never have noticed so much as a blip of vibration

 

Polished edges are optimum, without a doubt, but I question how sensitive one can truly be to the presence of moderate edge damage (let alone minutia). I've skied the rest of the day after hugely snaggletoothing an edge, and had no awareness of the extent of the damage until I take them off at the end of the day.

 

cantunamunch is certainly correct, a well polished edge is more resistant to rust.

Quote AirC: just isn't worth it....snip. Isn't worth what? effort? skill? time? I enjoy working on the skis....it's bondingsmile.gif, like waxing the classic car or cleaning the awesome road bike.


Edited by davluri - 6/1/12 at 9:41am
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post #10 of 32
6/1/12 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

 

Quote AirC: just isn't worth it....snip. Isn't worth what? effort? skill? time? I enjoy working on the skis....it's bondingsmile.gif, like waxing the classic car or cleaning the awesome road bike.

 

TIme.  However, as I stated, I still do it relentlessly; like each day is race day.  I've posted in previous threads that tuning skis is a wonderful way to spend a couple hours and is my next favorite thing after skiing.  I get the solitude of my shop, my favorite oatmeal stout of the day (usually picked based on it being in the fridge) and I'm doing something useful.  I even get to listen to "my" music and even if the kids come down to the "laboratory" as they call it, they don't stay long if Country is playing.  My skis are always in better condition than I am and can ski better than I can drive them.  As many times as I would like to blame the skis, it ain't them!

 

My point was that there is more benefit from technique than tuning when it comes to dents in your edges. 

 

I guess it would be similar to the threads on you car tires.  Cut a notch in one, mix the tires up and see if you can tell which tire it is on or if the car handles differently.

 

On a 170 cm ski, you have about 150-155 cm of contact.  Can you tell the difference when 1/2 cm is dented?  I think you'll never notice.  The ski doesn't care even though you (we) obsess over it.

 

The bonding and protection is of greater value than benefit to ski performance.

 

Ken

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post #11 of 32
6/1/12 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post
What is happening where steel meets snow? I once heard it involves temperature generated by friction. Is that just on ice?

 

Current thinking is "not quite exactly".     Apparently there is a slip layer no matter how cold or how unpressured the ice is*,  the question is more "how many slip layers are there at any given surface".

 

If we accept that sloughing through multiple pseudo-water slip layers creates drag on the ski edge, then it's entirely possible that polishing does, in fact, create less drag.

 

 

*Google Gabor Somorjai

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post #12 of 32
6/1/12 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

It sounds like you're quibbling over minescule amounts of damage which would be imperceptible while skiing.


magnifying_glass_somegeekintn.jpg

 

Just remove anything hanging over the edge like burs and file/polish just like you do with the rest of the edge.  Tiny dings aren't going to matter, but you may imagine that they do.

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post #13 of 32
6/1/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


Another factor is that I ski on a very rocky mountain, almost entirely rocks, scree, and solid walls of rock. We walk across rock. We ski across rock. It's what we do (rock!). So I have a lot of damage and use whatever technique available to make the ski perform and feel good on the snow.

 

.

 

Hmmm.....I confess I was thinking of Squaw as a relatively rock free (compared to my neck of the woods, namely THE Rocky Mountains)  environment, due to the mad huge snowfall that it usually enjoys ( I guess this wasn't the year for you guys though). The only time I ever skied there it didn't strike me as overly quarrelsome in that regard, and it was the second to the last day of the season as I recall.

 

I guess the name of the tune is "Whatever floats your boat." smile.gif

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post #14 of 32
6/1/12 at 10:40pm
Thread Starter 

 the ski shop at one end of my game room. best place in the house. and yes, CGD, there is a magnifying glass on the workbench tool shelf.

 

my son's ski, he puts them through more than I do, (one of my core shot repairs in evidence) note the large gouge has been cleaned up a little below the surface of where the file can get.

 

cantuna, crack me up, I'd have to go back to school, edge tuning macro 002 [1024x768].JPG

or give my brain a tune. I started one article....tad over my head. ROTF.gif  I've been studying aorta aneurysm open and endovascular surgery all night, so my brain is all fired up.

 

of course it's all technique over gear, always, but that's my idea on this. though it's counter-intuitive to think that .5 cm of roughened edge affects the other 169.5cm, it is indeed the case, due to the way an edge travels in its groove in the snow. I think, anyhow.  We agree the burr causes funkiness, but after cutting the burr off, then a little polishing to finish up?  the question also involves whether the additional steel removed to polish the gouge is worth the result. I say yes, because that roughness has to go eventually, probably after a base grind makes it accessible to the tuning file.

 

thanks, VA, freedom is the name of that tune.biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

 

TIme.  However, as I stated, I still do it relentlessly; like each day is race day.  I've posted in previous threads that tuning skis is a wonderful way to spend a couple hours and is my next favorite thing after skiing.  I get the solitude of my shop, my favorite oatmeal stout of the day (usually picked based on it being in the fridge) and I'm doing something useful.  I even get to listen to "my" music and even if the kids come down to the "laboratory" as they call it, they don't stay long if Country is playing.  My skis are always in better condition than I am and can ski better than I can drive them.  As many times as I would like to blame the skis, it ain't them!

 

My point was that there is more benefit from technique than tuning when it comes to dents in your edges. 

 

I guess it would be similar to the threads on you car tires.  Cut a notch in one, mix the tires up and see if you can tell which tire it is on or if the car handles differently.

 

On a 170 cm ski, you have about 150-155 cm of contact.  Can you tell the difference when 1/2 cm is dented?  I think you'll never notice.  The ski doesn't care even though you (we) obsess over it.

 

The bonding and protection is of greater value than benefit to ski performance.

 

Ken


Edited by davluri - 6/1/12 at 11:45pm
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post #15 of 32
6/2/12 at 6:49am

Let me throw a wrench into the thought process.

 

We structure our bases based on the snow surface we want to ski to avoid "stiction".  Yet we want our edges polished smooth......HHHMMMMMMMMM makes one think........confused.gif

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post #16 of 32
6/2/12 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 though it's counter-intuitive to think that .5 cm of roughened edge affects the other 169.5cm, it is indeed the case, due to the way an edge travels in its groove in the snow. I think,

 

I don't think a "smoothed" gouge affects the ski performance the same way a burr does because the edges of the gouged area probably have minimal contact with the snow. The gouge in  inward, i.e., metal is no longer on the edge so you have effectively two blades separated by a small gap. Assuming that the gap is narrow, the contact should be continuous. The gouged area should take minimal force as most will be on the edge materials that are still there, A burr on the other hand exerts (and receives) excess force as it is stands out from the edge which is why I almost always notice a burr but never a smoothed gouge.

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post #17 of 32
6/2/12 at 8:25am

That needs to be stoneground!!!! devil.gif

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post #18 of 32
6/2/12 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolskier View Post

Let me throw a wrench into the thought process.

 

We structure our bases based on the snow surface we want to ski to avoid "stiction".  Yet we want our edges polished smooth......HHHMMMMMMMMM makes one think........confused.gif

 

No, no it doesn't. You glide on your bases. You carve on your edges. Structure = less suction = faster/smoother in wet/sticky snow.

 

 

 

Davluri, you clearly need to go hiking or biking. You're way to anal about this stuff with lack of spring snow. We ski in Tahoe. We shouldn't worry about all this smooth edge, perfect tune crap like the all the bears on the ice coast. I've skied here since 2000. In all those years, I can recall only a handful of times when I actually needed really sharp edges. And most of those days were this season. Most of the time my edges look like the picture you post of your son's - at least in some spots. Just take off the burrs and go ski. If it gets really icy, take them to Starthaus for a great tune. You and I are too f'ing old to race at any competitive level, so the benefits of a super tune are lost on us anyway.

 

Now go tune your waterskis and get out there.

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post #19 of 32
6/2/12 at 9:50am
Thread Starter 

Sin, is this not the place to get down to details??

 

At this point in my skiing, it's all aesthetics, sensations, exhilaration. The feelings start at my feet and radiate through my soul. The edge is first contact.

 

Like I said. I ski my rock skis a lot. But the good skis sure feel great.

 

I can't go out and do anything right now. That's my problem indeed!

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post #20 of 32
6/2/12 at 9:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

That needs to be stoneground!!!! devil.gif


you have that right....the third stonegrind! He has new skis also, these are pow/rock skis, the legendary B-Squads.

 

You stand alone in this page of commentary. except I'm shoulder to shoulder and Vsirin is lined up with the concept I think.

we're just so smooooth. wink.gif

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post #21 of 32
6/2/12 at 2:40pm

In waterskiing, sharp edges lift and rounded edges suction. While snow is not water (actually it is - just not liquid) in the microscopic realm it may behave in a similar fashion as liquid water. If you smooth out the scratches, you will create a low spot on the edges. That will create local suction which could create uneven pressures on the edge. Uneven pressure could start chatter and loss of edge grip.

 

Another interesting question: would the stone grinding follow a smoothed out depression?

 

Roughness does not always increase drag. Flows across perpendicular gaps do not displace the flow lines. Minimum drag finishes have empirically derived roughness levels to reduce the drag. My waterskis ski best with a 24 grit rough sanded edge finish. With that said, a significant burr on the edge of a snow ski is likely to have a detrimental feel. Make the overall running surface level.

 

I remember skiing on cracked edge snow skis which honestly didn't feel any different from solid edge skis. So the edge roughness is in practical terms irrelevant.

 

However, the discussion is fun and appropriate. Regardless of snowfall totals, Squaw has enough terrain that is too steep to hold snow tempting us. Rocks and edge damage will always be a problem. Fortunately, the snow is usually soft enough that perfect edges are not critical. And the pitches are steep enough that a bit of extra drag doesn't hurt (maybe next year I will put clister on my bases to see if slowing things down a bit helps). My vote is to send Dave on a hike and leave the edge scratched.

 

Eric

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post #22 of 32
6/3/12 at 8:55am

You clearly have thought more about this than I have and I know nothing about water skiing but my first thoughts are that I'm not sure much of this applies.  The pressures and dynamic action of bulk water flowing over an edge in water skiing has to be very different than the thin film of water a snow ski sees.  Also regarding roughness, damage from skiing or striations from filing are random and not perfectly perpendicular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

In waterskiing, sharp edges lift and rounded edges suction. While snow is not water (actually it is - just not liquid) in the microscopic realm it may behave in a similar fashion as liquid water. If you smooth out the scratches, you will create a low spot on the edges. That will create local suction which could create uneven pressures on the edge. Uneven pressure could start chatter and loss of edge grip.

 

Another interesting question: would the stone grinding follow a smoothed out depression?

 

Roughness does not always increase drag. Flows across perpendicular gaps do not displace the flow lines. Minimum drag finishes have empirically derived roughness levels to reduce the drag. My waterskis ski best with a 24 grit rough sanded edge finish. With that said, a significant burr on the edge of a snow ski is likely to have a detrimental feel. Make the overall running surface level.

 

I remember skiing on cracked edge snow skis which honestly didn't feel any different from solid edge skis. So the edge roughness is in practical terms irrelevant.

 

However, the discussion is fun and appropriate. Regardless of snowfall totals, Squaw has enough terrain that is too steep to hold snow tempting us. Rocks and edge damage will always be a problem. Fortunately, the snow is usually soft enough that perfect edges are not critical. And the pitches are steep enough that a bit of extra drag doesn't hurt (maybe next year I will put clister on my bases to see if slowing things down a bit helps). My vote is to send Dave on a hike and leave the edge scratched.

 

Eric

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post #23 of 32
6/3/12 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 

e, A stone grind is only on the p-tex surface of the base. It lowers that surface enough that the base surface of the steel edge can be filed down and beveled again to remove scratches and reset angles. It works like removing sidewall material to file more deeply on the side surface of the steel edge. 

 

oldschool/sinec, it doesn't make me think either.....nothing does. nada. not happening.

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post #24 of 32
6/3/12 at 2:18pm

Totally WRONG!!!!BSmeter.gif

 

Stone grind resets the base edge to -0- base bevel.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

e, A stone grind is only on the p-tex surface of the base. It lowers that surface enough that the base surface of the steel edge can be filed down and beveled again to remove scratches and reset angles. It works like removing sidewall material to file more deeply on the side surface of the steel edge. 

 

oldschool/sinec, it doesn't make me think either.....nothing does. nada. not happening.

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post #25 of 32
6/3/12 at 9:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

snip......

 

Stone grind resets the base edge to -0- base bevel.

 

 

my understanding is otherwise, as I have had a base grind that didn't finish the base surface of the edge at all. I had to do that and bevel it with a file. if a base grind was clear across the ski, edges included, the edge base angle would def be -0- ,

 

the last step in my grind jobs is structure, right? that is the final cut into the surface. AND there is no structure on my edge base surface.

 

I don't see the confusion or BS though

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post #26 of 32
6/4/12 at 8:09am

Of course you had to bevel it with a file, because the base edge was ground back to flat. (Most shops have their machine put the base edge bevel on the ski a  considered a lower qulaity tune and usualy at 1 degree)

 

When a Race tune/hand tune is done the stone grind sets the base edge bevel to -0-.

 

NO,  this is not the same concept as planing the sidewall.

 

I have measured the angle of the base edge metal a 1000 times with a $260 SVST bevelmeter after a stone grind) which uses a magnet to read the metal angle. Guess what after a stone grinds where I have asked for no edge tuning (I do it myself) the base edge angle is -0-. The primary reason you need a grind is because the base edge metal has been worn away by friction and the base edge angle is in excess of the desired bevel angle.

 

In fact I recently had 3 pair of skis stone ground. The base edge had such deep striatiions from the linear grind pattern that was used that I had to highly polish the base edge to get the skis to ski properly. NOrmally I do very minimal polishing of the base edge when hand tuning a newly ground ski. But this particular structure pattern was aggressive. and was imparted by a Wintersteiger auotmated machine.

 

Trust me here you are operating under a complete misconception the edges are grond flat so a proper base edge bevel can be restored!


Edited by Atomicman - 6/4/12 at 8:19am
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post #27 of 32
6/4/12 at 8:31am

Dave's Ptex grind only experience got me thinking. Is there a cheap and easy way to remove just the Ptex so I can restore the edges? My rock skis are not worth the $$ for a stone grind. I tried my small bench belt sander (new 120 grit belt) but had to razor scrape the Ptex for way too long to get the file to work the edges.

 

Dr D has a valid point about liquid vs ice. I'm not sure anyone has estimated the Reynolds number for skis flowing across ice. But I will stand by my claim that a slow blended defect can be worse than scratches. When using a hand grinder on steel, a smooth but out of round blade is very hard to work with. A true round blade with a chip out of it works fine. It seems to cut faster - suggesting that defects in a ski's edge could help the edge grip (but it might slow you down?).

 

Eric

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post #28 of 32
6/4/12 at 9:13am
Thread Starter 

It came to me in the night. the other sensation of the bad edge is during the slipping motion. Un-even edge grip during edge release has to be compensated for by varying edge pressure fore and aft.  It's a bad feeling and causes focus on extra compensation, not the excellent sensation of a good true edge. This is a completely different aspect of edge performance than the edge carving and melting a groove.

 

 

I trust this post, A-man and thanks. I guess more than the tech that told me his grinder couldn't even touch the metal or be ruined. I always get the basic grind and bevel the edge myself. (It is similar to the sidewall planer in that it is the process to file further into the edge material, but that's the only similarity.)  thanks for the accurate info, it will assist me in future grinds. a-man if you'll indulge us, what are the various types of base grind, from belt sander to state of the art stone grinder? the machines used, the surface imparted to the base?

 

I hate bad information, cause I'm likely to blab it all over the place. so keep it real and let me know. thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Of course you had to bevel it with a file, because the base edge was ground back to flat. (Most shops have their machine put the base edge bevel on the ski a  considered a lower qulaity tune and usualy at 1 degree)

 

When a Race tune/hand tune is done the stone grind sets the base edge bevel to -0-.

 

NO,  this is not the same concept as planing the sidewall.

 

I have measured the angle of the base edge metal a 1000 times with a $260 SVST bevelmeter after a stone grind) which uses a magnet to read the metal angle. Guess what after a stone grinds where I have asked for no edge tuning (I do it myself) the base edge angle is -0-. The primary reason you need a grind is because the base edge metal has been worn away by friction and the base edge angle is in excess of the desired bevel angle.

 

In fact I recently had 3 pair of skis stone ground. The base edge had such deep striatiions from the linear grind pattern that was used that I had to highly polish the base edge to get the skis to ski properly. NOrmally I do very minimal polishing of the base edge when hand tuning a newly ground ski. But this particular structure pattern was aggressive. and was imparted by a Wintersteiger auotmated machine.

 

Trust me here you are operating under a complete misconception the edges are grond flat so a proper base edge bevel can be restored!


Edited by davluri - 6/4/12 at 9:31am
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post #29 of 32
6/4/12 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

It came to me in the night. the other sensation of the bad edge is during the slipping motion. Un-even edge grip during edge release has to be compensated for by varying edge pressure fore and aft.  It's a bad feeling and causes focus on extra compensation, not the excellent sensation of a good true edge. This is a completely different aspect of edge performance than the edge carving and melting a groove.

 

This is one on which I have to disagree Dave. I do a Pivot Slip drill early EVERY ski day where I go straight, pivot, side slip 20  feet at the top of an icy diamond. I release, pivot, and re-engage the opposite edge maybe 4 or 5 times staying in a narrow (ski width) corridor, I have done  this with a gouged (but smoothed) edge on one ski and not the other and have never had to compensate.

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post #30 of 32
6/4/12 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsirin View Post

This is one on which I have to disagree Dave. I do a Pivot Slip drill early EVERY ski day where I go straight, pivot, side slip 20  feet at the top of an icy diamond. I release, pivot, and re-engage the opposite edge maybe 4 or 5 times staying in a narrow (ski width) corridor, I have done  this with a gouged (but smoothed) edge on one ski and not the other and have never had to compensate.

So do I, and the reason is you know what neutral is on your skis because of this exercise.  You naturally compensate for the irregularities by the feel of the first 20ft of side slip.

 

This exercise is soooooo under rated.

 

This said, most of you can ski crap edges and not blink an eye, but good edges make it fun, great edges lose that 0.01 seconds on a run wink.gif for that aah moment.

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › polishing the scratches you can't remove. good idea?