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Head Peak 78 - Page 2

post #31 of 42

I think grabby is an inaapropriate term to use in describing the difference between .5 (or.7) and a 1 degree. Grabby infers something is wrong with the tune and the skis don't roll on and off edge smoothly. This is not the case with a properly prepared .5 degree base bevel unless something else is wrong.  For example, iconsistent base edge bevel, ie wavy, hanging burr,or extreme linear stone grind pattern not adeqautely polished out of the base edge. The other factorthat can cause grabbiness is skiers canting issues.

 

So in conclusion, if the .5 is true & consistent , burr free and smoothly polished and the skier has no alignemnt issues the ski swill not be grabby. Will they be ultra responsive to tipping moves. Absolutely! but they wil roll on and off edge smoothly.

 

If edge to edge quickness was all about technique and and not about the combination of tune and technique, everyone would ski on a more forgiving 1 degree (which actually if tuned as I have described above and is a true accurate  1 degree skis extremely well)  It is simple geometry though, the farther the edge is from the snow the more the ski must be tipped before the edge is engaged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

 

Surly Bob,

 

If you definitely want to avoid grabby, then you may not want a lower base bevel angle.  I say that because a smaller base angle will make the skis more sensitive to small adjustments when they are flat or near flat on the snow.  With a flatter base bevel, the skis may respond to a command to turn that you were unaware of making.  This is the other side of the responsiveness coin to grabbiness, which is simply solid responsiveness to edging.

 

If you're concerned about achieving quickness edge to edge, technique matters more than tune.  If you fight or resist letting go of the old turn, it saps the energy of your turn.  You'll still transition to the new turn despite your resistance, but you'll be slow edge to edge.  If you don't resist but instead release the old turn freely, the energy released from that turn will make for a snappy edge change.

 

Personally, I put a 0.5* base / 4* side bevel on all my skis, including a pre-flowride pair of peak 78.  But most skiers prefer a bit more play ("forgiveness") in the steering.  Different strokes for different folks.  If you do try a more aggressive tune, do so on an uncrowded slope the first time until you gain confidence that your skill level is compatible with the increased responsiveness.

post #32 of 42

yes a very tiny little minority who can appreciate this and want that kind of tune, and then theres those who aspire and want to emulate their heroes but shouldn't biggrin.gif.  In this case, this guys an newer skier (his posts certainly indicate as much) so advising him to put a race tune (especially when he doesn't do his own tuning)  on his skis is a bit much don't you think? how about an easy to use and still high performance tune that would allow him to build confidence while building skills?  Not everyone learning to drive should buy a Ferrari?  I doubt his skill level is high enough to control or utilize that kind of setup. I don't aspire to ski groomers; especially hard snow so whatever makes you happy is ok with me. My skis are all 1;1 and 2:1. If I need anything more, I'm going snowshoeing...biggrin.gif

 

Rehab is going very well and cleared to ride a bike (just road and flat trail) I'll take it; for now...  

post #33 of 42

give me a break. My wife is a termianl intermediate. Her skis Atomic C9 which is an upper intermediate type ski. Came from the factory with a 1/3. WEhich all Atomics do and have for years.

 

this idea of a race tune being compared to a Ferrari is bunk.

 

Get a real true 1 degree put on the ski and 3 side edge. The side edge makes the ski no more demanding, but surely inspires confidence on hard snow or even ice with no downside in soft snow.

 

It is not about going out and trying to drive a very powerfull (dangerous in the wrong hands) vehicle, it is about having predictable smooth predictable transitions and confidence inspiring edge hold and we all need that whether a beginner or racer.

post #34 of 42

I knew I liked you  biggrin.gif

 

scottskier; what? no love? I just said the same thing as Atomic and he gets cred points?  biggrin.gif

post #35 of 42

A-man, you obviously did not read the question to which I responded. 

 

Ron changed the topic away from tune.  Ron was asking why I don't like to ski on neutered skis.  Basic answer was because to me it's more fun not to.  I was trying to be polite.

 

I know plenty of intermediates who like some edge angle on their skis.  I've put those edges on plenty of their skis.  The effective edge angle I mentioned earlier are 175% of what your wife has -- 3.5 vs 2.0.  Still modest by slalom standards but decidedly more responsive than 1/3, especially on the right ski.  Give me a break.

 

This has drifted far from Surly Bob's question.  Bob, it wasn't my intent to be part of the derailment of your thread.  I'm withdrawing from this thread now.

post #36 of 42

wrong, I was speaking about the OP who is a novice. If you are a racer and have the skills, go for it.  The OP was not asking what YOU like to put on skis. Yes, you derailed it.  I suggested a 1:3, on page 1. (notice I don't ski with that tune, it was a suggestion for him)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

A-man, you obviously did not read the question to which I responded. 

 

Ron changed the topic away from tune.  Ron was asking why I don't like to ski on neutered skis.  Basic answer was because to me it's more fun not to.  I was trying to be polite.

 

I know plenty of intermediates who like some edge angle on their skis.  I've put those edges on plenty of their skis.  The effective edge angle I mentioned earlier are 175% of what your wife has -- 3.5 vs 2.0.  Still modest by slalom standards but decidedly more responsive than 1/3, especially on the right ski.  Give me a break.

 

This has drifted far from Surly Bob's question.  Bob, it wasn't my intent to be part of the derailment of your thread.  I'm withdrawing from this thread now.

post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

I knew I liked you  biggrin.gif

 

scottskier; what? no love? I just said the same thing as Atomic and he gets cred points?  biggrin.gif

 

I read every post. I saw nothing about any other question other then tune.

 

and a 1/3 is only modest by World Cup Slalom race Standards. I have a .7 and 4 on my slaloms.

 

Bye Bye.........................................................................................................................................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

A-man, you obviously did not read the question to which I responded. 

 

Ron changed the topic away from tune.  Ron was asking why I don't like to ski on neutered skis.  Basic answer was because to me it's more fun not to.  I was trying to be polite.

 

I know plenty of intermediates who like some edge angle on their skis.  I've put those edges on plenty of their skis.  The effective edge angle I mentioned earlier are 175% of what your wife has -- 3.5 vs 2.0.  Still modest by slalom standards but decidedly more responsive than 1/3, especially on the right ski.  Give me a break.

 

This has drifted far from Surly Bob's question.  Bob, it wasn't my intent to be part of the derailment of your thread.  I'm withdrawing from this thread now.

post #38 of 42

Believe it or not, Ray is my friend!

 

Maybe my only friend on Epic, but none the less, a friend!ROTF.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

I knew I liked you  biggrin.gif

 

scottskier; what? no love? I just said the same thing as Atomic and he gets cred points?  biggrin.gif

post #39 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

I knew I liked you  biggrin.gif

 

scottskier; what? no love? I just said the same thing as Atomic and he gets cred points?  biggrin.gif


biggrin.gif Must have read it wrong Finn!.  I thought you were recommending to the OP a 1/1 or a 1/2  rather than 1/3.  Might be the red-eye catching up on me  of course.

 

Since it is you, will spread the love though!   beercheer.gif  .... even if we will beg to differ on the higher angles losing their tune quicker...biggrin.gif

post #40 of 42

No worries, I recommended a 1:2 or a 1:3; 1:3 for hard snow EC conditions and a 1:2 for western soft snow. I did mention the 1:1 but only in referencing that I wasn't just recommending what I ski to the OP (and not on a 78 waisted ski for sure) . I am a off-piste skiing by far (although I completely respect the front siders and racers; I love watching ski racing, I don't have that level of skills but it's just not where I like to ski) so I leave my pow skis at 1:1 and a 1:2 for my bone's and my 8.5's when they come this fall. I did ski the Kastles at 1:3 and they rocked for sure. The Kastle mx 78 & 88 (tuned to 1:3) are arguably among the best skis ever made.  However, this thread was about what would best for the OP.

post #41 of 42
Thread Starter 
Although I'm new to tuning my own skis (and to posting on forums such as these), I'm definitely not a novice skier. I'm going a 1 degree base and 2 degree side bevel since I ski mostly in BC both on and off piste.

Very illuminating thread.
post #42 of 42

Good call.  Also, moving from a 1* base bevel to anything less requires a grind to your base.  If that's not really needed right now why lose the base material unnecessarily?  You can always experiment next time you get a base grind.  Changing from 0.5 degrees to 1 degree is pretty easy. The other way, notsomuch.

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