Ski Area Report Card 2012 Edition - Page 3

bgfred, welcome to Epic. If you do not abbreviate it as "YMMV" in all future posts, you will be excommunicated. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexzn 

Unless you enforce objectivity, a thread like this is fine for wasting bandwidth, but not for much else. :-)

I'd say about 95% of the threads on Epic could be similarly critiqued.  There are a few that have real, objectively useful information, and a large majority that contain mostly opinion, and conjecture.  I don't read this board primarily for education, though that sometimes happens, I read it for fun.  So if that's a waste of bandwidth, so be it.

I am going to give two ratings for Fernie BC Canada.  One for the resort, one for the town.

Terrain: A

Terrain Park: F

Grooming: B

Lift Design: D

Cleanliness: Resort - F  Town - B

Ambiance:  Resort - F  Town A

Customer Service: Resort - F  Town B

Apre Ski: Resort - F - Town B

Food: Resort - F  Town- A+

Parking: Resort - C  Town - B

Ski School:   B 

Snow Making: D

Accessibility: -  F

Daily Ticket Prices: F

Season Pass Prices:F

OVERALL: C  

Comments: 

Fernie Alpine Resort continues to horribly fail in many aspects of ski resort services they offer.  The sickening part of it all is that they think they are the best in the world and charge top dollar for utterly embarrassing services (However the terrain is sick and the town has awesome food and nightlife!  Is  that all that matters anyhow?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexzn 

This thread is a wee bit pointless, isn't it? There is no way a rating is objective across those "grades". So how come terrain is ranked A for a bunch of little resorts, and it is A- for Squaw.... Unless you enforce objectivity, a thread like this is fine for wasting bandwidth, but not for much else. Still, in the geniuses spirit of cooperation....
RESORT/SKI AREA: Squaw "the Mothership" Valley USA
Terrain: A. --Ski it if you can, oh, wait, this is in the East... Trees: who needs trees, they are only stopping you from going fast. And, besides, my skis are so fat now that won't fit in between those trees. Me hates the suckers.
Terrain Park: A. --Wadda ya mean- they built a segmented pipe for Simon Dumont, so must be food. And by the way, what are those terrain parks anyway?
Grooming: A (the less of it the better)
Lift Design: A (it gets you up, right? Don't like it- talk to Alex Cushing)
Cleanliness: A --last time I checked snow was still white.
Ambiance:  A. --Gotta love the smell in Dave's Deli in a wet storm day. Persistent pole whacking and regular yells of "watch me rip the sh&t of of this line" only add to the unique ambiance.
Customer Service: A --At least they let you ski the mountain, so be happy about that. What, you need help carrying your yard sale pencil sticks- go to Northstar.
Apre Ski: A. --The beer is cold, and if you want to party, you didn't ski hard enough.
Food: A. --Chocolate cookies, need I say more? Lots of great food is only 200 miles away.
Parking: A. --Not happy? Try parking at Northstar.
Ski School: A. --Do you think Squaw skiers grow on trees?
Snow Making: A --Nature takes are of that.
Accessibility: A. --You can ove the Donner Summit without skinning
Daily Ticket Prices: A. The more they charge day visitors, the cheaper my season pass will be.
Season Pass Prices: A. -- I pay them, so must be good, right?
OVERALL:  Squaw--- where every skier is the best skier on the mountain.
:-)

How anyone can give Squaw anything better than a C- (and I am being very, very kind here) is beyond me and must be drinking some serious KSL Koolaid (sp?).  I have very close friends on pro patrol and mountain operations and even if they hadn't told me it was painfully obvious KSL laid everyone off during the slow start, watched Northstar print money and then got caught with their pants down in the most serious way when things started to pick up.  I will never fault a resort for Mother Nature's lack of snow, but these guys whiffed it huge this year.  If we are just going to give out "A's" for our favorite resort let's just rename the title of this thread to "what's our favorite resort". Get real!

Mt.Bachelor,Oregon

Employees-A+

Management-F-

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexzn 

This thread is a wee bit pointless, isn't it? There is no way a rating is objective across those "grades". So how come terrain is ranked A for a bunch of little resorts, and it is A- for Squaw.... Unless you enforce objectivity, a thread like this is fine for wasting bandwidth, but not for much else. Still, in the geniuses spirit of cooperation....
RESORT/SKI AREA: Squaw "the Mothership" Valley USA
Terrain: A. --Ski it if you can, oh, wait, this is in the East... Trees: who needs trees, they are only stopping you from going fast. And, besides, my skis are so fat now that won't fit in between those trees. Me hates the suckers.
Terrain Park: A. --Wadda ya mean- they built a segmented pipe for Simon Dumont, so must be food. And by the way, what are those terrain parks anyway?
Grooming: A (the less of it the better)
Lift Design: A (it gets you up, right? Don't like it- talk to Alex Cushing)
Cleanliness: A --last time I checked snow was still white.
Ambiance:  A. --Gotta love the smell in Dave's Deli in a wet storm day. Persistent pole whacking and regular yells of "watch me rip the sh&t of of this line" only add to the unique ambiance.
Customer Service: A --At least they let you ski the mountain, so be happy about that. What, you need help carrying your yard sale pencil sticks- go to Northstar.
Apre Ski: A. --The beer is cold, and if you want to party, you didn't ski hard enough.
Food: A. --Chocolate cookies, need I say more? Lots of great food is only 200 miles away.
Parking: A. --Not happy? Try parking at Northstar.
Ski School: A. --Do you think Squaw skiers grow on trees?
Snow Making: A --Nature takes are of that.
Accessibility: A. --You can ove the Donner Summit without skinning
Daily Ticket Prices: A. The more they charge day visitors, the cheaper my season pass will be.
Season Pass Prices: A. -- I pay them, so must be good, right?
OVERALL:  Squaw--- where every skier is the best skier on the mountain.
:-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquawBrat 

How anyone can give Squaw anything better than a C- (and I am being very, very kind here) is beyond me and must be drinking some serious KSL Koolaid (sp?).  I have very close friends on pro patrol and mountain operations and even if they hadn't told me it was painfully obvious KSL laid everyone off during the slow start, watched Northstar print money and then got caught with their pants down in the most serious way when things started to pick up.  I will never fault a resort for Mother Nature's lack of snow, but these guys whiffed it huge this year.  If we are just going to give out "A's" for our favorite resort let's just rename the title of this thread to "what's our favorite resort". Get real!

First of all,

I got Alex's tone in the report card.  It made me laugh a little.  Although I think many of the report cards are based on personal experience, and as an individual resort, not on a class curve among all other resorts.  

Second of all,

Since skiing with Alex and Xela this past season, I have gotten a lot more joy out of my Squaw experience. 

In an effort to maintain standards with the eastern hill ratings, I'm giving Whistler an A+++. (one plus was deducted due to the village.)

I've also skied these hills this season which scored the following:

Hemlock (BC): A+

Blue Mountain (Ontario): A-

Georgian Peaks (Ontario): B+

Glen Eden (Ontario): B

The street outside of my house gets a rather lacklustre B-, due to both a lack of snow and a complete absence of chairlifts. 

FWIW I don't think the idea of this was to rate one resort against another, but to do your own resorts report card based on how they handled this past season, and how they ran the day to day operation.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaphor_ 

In an effort to maintain standards with the eastern hill ratings, I'm giving Whistler an A+++. (one plus was deducted due to the village.)

 

I've also skied these hills this season which scored the following:

Hemlock (BC): A+

Blue Mountain (Ontario): A-

Georgian Peaks (Ontario): B+

Glen Eden (Ontario): B

 

The street outside of my house gets a rather lacklustre B-, due to both a lack of snow and a complete absence of chairlifts. 

You rated Blue Mountain ahead of Georgian Peaks? I guess overall but the Peaks has better terrain and Blue has an abundance of bad skiers.

I wholeheartedly agree with your Whistler rating vs eastern hills!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ster 

RESORT/SKI AREA:  Snowbasin, UT

 

OVERALL:  A-

 

Comments:  This place ROCKS!  I have been here 11yrs., & still luvin' it.  Cons would be the propensity for flat light & high winds in the Strawberry section of the mountain.

x 2 to your rundown. Was going to do my own, but you nailed it. Plus, you filled in things that I have no idea about like the snowmaking system. So I'll go Pow Mow instead:

RESORT/SKI AREA: Powder Mountain, UT

Terrain: B  (What it lacks in pucker factor and continuous vertical, it makes up for in everything else: trees, ridiculously generous fresh lines, plenty of hike-to shots, rocks/cliffs, trees, fresh lines...)

Terrain Park: C (I don't do park, but Pow Mow's park has the feel of an afterthought that they put up just to keep the few jibbers from complaining)

Grooming: You don't go to Pow Mow to shred groomers, but probably a B or a C, I'll go B -

Lift Design: B- (Strictly speaking, I'd give the lifts a C- or D [slow, old lifts spread out and I always need to hit multiple lifts, often with a crappy traverse, to get back] but I give a boost for creative options like single-ride cat and shuttle)

Ambiance: A (Wood smoke coming out of the yurt and a lively bar is all the ambiance you really need in my book)

Customer Service: A (I've heard some bad things, but have always had a great experience, including a cat ride where the driver told me to save my ticket for next time)

Apres Ski: B- (Aforementioned lively base bar is fun to hang out in, but not much else around)

Food: I'm guessing around a D, but I don't eat there.

Parking: B (You can park at the base of Sundown or at the mid or top of the main resort, which means you can get out of your car and carve fresh lines down Powder Country without spending a minute on a lift. It gets a B because you have to make your way back at the end of the day.)

Ski School: No clue.

Snow Making: None, and I never really noticed a need. Not quite as much natural as the Cottonwoods, but lasts much longer. Possibly the best place in the country for fresh powder.

Accessibility: B (Within about an hour of SLC but the last 15 minutes up the canyon seem to be intimidating for many. The shuttle from the valley has very limited pick ups. On the plus side, it's just far enough from the airport and population centers to cut crowds but close enough for an easy trip)

Daily Ticket Prices: A+ (Given the sheer size, snowfall and lack of crowds, $60/day - or $63 for open to 9 p.m. - is one of the best deals anywhere. And it's hard not to fall in love with a place that offers a $47 locals midweek discount.)

Season Pass Prices: A (I believe it's one of or the cheapest pass(es) for a big resort in Utah)

OVERALL: A

Comments: An 'A' might seem high given some of the low grades, but mostly where Pow Mow scores low is stuff I really don't care about as a local (I can go home or to an in-town restaurant for a beer or a good meal). The only thing that really affects me is the poor lift system, but even that can be spun into a positive (more room to roam and find long-lasting snow). Also you tend to forget negatives when doing knee+-deep laps with on-demand face shots for the majority of days at a mountain.

RESORT/SKI AREA: Breckenridge

Terrain: A

Terrain Park: A+

Grooming: A

Lift Design: B+

Cleanliness: B+

Ambiance: B

Customer Service: A

Apre Ski: A

Food: C -

Parking: B

Ski School: A+

Snow Making: A

Accessibility: A

Daily Ticket Prices: C

Season Pass Prices: A+

OVERALL: A

Comments: Of course I'm going to give my home mountain high marks. That bias acknowledged, the thing about Breckenridge, as any European visitor will tell you, is the quality of the snow. It's higher and drier than anywhere, because the base is at 9,600' (3000m) and the summit is 13,000' (4000m), and faces East. Consequently, the season is long. There is a tremendous variety of terrain.

Like Xela, I'd like to see the report card with a spot for programs Kids and adult programs separately.  

Some places have great kids programs but forget other areas. 

Mt Rose has a great senior and women's program, both of which  get a lot of people out who may not other wise go skiing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xela 

 

Terrain: A, this should be judged in a "timeless" way.  Can't blame Squaw for weather. 

I agree with the Alexes. Terrain is always the same. Access is always different, day to day even in a good year. If you go to ABasin in early December, terrain is about a D. In March, it's a B+ maybe A-. And there's a bunch of days in between those that are also different. Can't judge it on conditions, IMO.

I think the grading is totally subjective. If you look at the ticket price, Squaw is the lowest with deal among all major resorts. It should get best grade consistently but it does not. Another variable can be added is the snow amount. I get the point of good snow making but I observed something more. As the season went on, I saw very significant difference in snow coverage. I went to good snow making resort multiple times at the peak of the season, and I still had to dodge bare spots on the main groom runs, my friend's skis and my skis got damaged in the trees. The coverage isn't nearly as good. I consider these two variables just even out at the end.

Squaw has a jib pipe, the depth is similar to a quarter pipe. I personally would not call it a pipe because the shape is uneven and you can't really ride it like a normal pipe. It is more like a bunch of hip jumps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by segbrown 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xela 

 

Terrain: A, this should be judged in a "timeless" way.  Can't blame Squaw for weather. 

 

I agree with the Alexes. Terrain is always the same. Access is always different, day to day even in a good year. If you go to ABasin in early December, terrain is about a D. In March, it's a B+ maybe A-. And there's a bunch of days in between those that are also different. Can't judge it on conditions, IMO.

I'm not sure I understand this post entirely.  Who is Alexes?

I don't think I agree that terrain is always the same and only access changes.  In my mind I see The Chute at Mt. Baker.  It's a certifiable double diamond in the early season, very narrow and steep between rock faces, that really tests you.  Most years in the late season it has been filled in so much that it is a comfortable black run with plenty of room and is not all that steep. So is that a change in terrain, or access?

funny, it involves people's real names and there are two. thus: Alex'es.

you could judge terrain in August, just looking at the rocky peaks, IMO.

it's true Squaw sucks in so many ways. big D-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Posaune 

 

I don't think I agree that terrain is always the same and only access changes.  In my mind I see The Chute at Mt. Baker.  It's a certifiable double diamond in the early season, very narrow and steep between rock faces, that really tests you.  Most years in the late season it has been filled in so much that it is a comfortable black run with plenty of room and is not all that steep. So is that a change in terrain, or access?

True enough.  First time I rode up chair 1, early season, I was pretty sure I wasn't going anywhere near the Chute.  With the rocks the only access was from the side (skier's right). It was skiable, there were people doing it, just not me.  This past year in mid-March, with a lot of snow, no worries,  it was a pretty fun run right down the lift line.   

Still, this dynamic will be true pretty much anywhere.  How much of the terrain is open will change with snow accumulation and the characteristics of the terrain will change as well.  I've been on intermediate trails in the early season that had a lot of ripples, dips, and bumps in the terrain that actually made it more interesting and challenging, characteristics that disappear when the snowpack gets to normal and is groomed.  

So are we talking about rating the terrain, or the snowfall?  Or maybe, the terrain given the snowfall at that time?

If we are grading the terrain, for this past season, with the given snowfall, then most PNW areas score a high grade.  A+ for being able to hit the trees and venture in between official runs, whereas two years ago I wasn't often tempted to do so, too many bare spots and tree roots. 

By the same standard, most of the rest of country scored lower than usual.  But is this a fair assessment of the ski resort?  I know I haven't seen Tahoe at it's best, but I still have a sense of which resorts I liked and how they compare to other resorts I have been to. 

Some of the grading in the posts in the thread note how well, or how poorly the management handled the conditions they had.   

OK, I'm probably making this more complicated that it needs to be. Phil started the thread with the idea of grading your home resort, for this year.  I really appreciate the effort that people have put into their posts. My perception is that most people have made an honest, sincere effort to convey their experiences of their home resort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metaphor_ 

In an effort to maintain standards with the eastern hill ratings, I'm giving Whistler an A+++. (one plus was deducted due to the village.)

 

I've also skied these hills this season which scored the following:

Hemlock (BC): A+

Blue Mountain (Ontario): A-

Georgian Peaks (Ontario): B+

Glen Eden (Ontario): B

 

The street outside of my house gets a rather lacklustre B-, due to both a lack of snow and a complete absence of chairlifts. 

I'm sorry but i live in Ontario and used to ski public areas (i joined beaver valley) and how can you give Glen Eden a B? It is the worst semi-major ski area in Ontario, no glades, no moguls, 130 vert, and packed full of yetis from Toronto. It is always icy and super crowded. As for blue which has good terrain (Ontario wise) is the most crowded, iciest, and also packed full of yetis from Toronto (mostly the snowboarders scraping down the slopes). They have proven over and over again that they only care about the money, with there being no cap on daily ticket sales (have waited for over an hour in the singles line) and many a time have been running the guns mid season right over the lift. The only way to get any fresh snow there is to make the trek over the the Orchard. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT 

x 2 to your rundown. Was going to do my own, but you nailed it. Plus, you filled in things that I have no idea about like the snowmaking system. So I'll go Pow Mow instead:

 

 

RESORT/SKI AREA: Powder Mountain, UT

 

Terrain: B  (What it lacks in pucker factor and continuous vertical, it makes up for in everything else: trees, ridiculously generous fresh lines, plenty of hike-to shots, rocks/cliffs, trees, fresh lines...)

 

Terrain Park: C (I don't do park, but Pow Mow's park has the feel of an afterthought that they put up just to keep the few jibbers from complaining)

 

Grooming: You don't go to Pow Mow to shred groomers, but probably a B or a C, I'll go B -

 

Lift Design: B- (Strictly speaking, I'd give the lifts a C- or D [slow, old lifts spread out and I always need to hit multiple lifts, often with a crappy traverse, to get back] but I give a boost for creative options like single-ride cat and shuttle)

 

Ambiance: A (Wood smoke coming out of the yurt and a lively bar is all the ambiance you really need in my book)

 

Customer Service: A (I've heard some bad things, but have always had a great experience, including a cat ride where the driver told me to save my ticket for next time)

 

Apres Ski: B- (Aforementioned lively base bar is fun to hang out in, but not much else around)

 

Food: I'm guessing around a D, but I don't eat there.

 

Parking: B (You can park at the base of Sundown or at the mid or top of the main resort, which means you can get out of your car and carve fresh lines down Powder Country without spending a minute on a lift. It gets a B because you have to make your way back at the end of the day.)

 

Ski School: No clue.

 

Snow Making: None, and I never really noticed a need. Not quite as much natural as the Cottonwoods, but lasts much longer. Possibly the best place in the country for fresh powder.

 

Accessibility: B (Within about an hour of SLC but the last 15 minutes up the canyon seem to be intimidating for many. The shuttle from the valley has very limited pick ups. On the plus side, it's just far enough from the airport and population centers to cut crowds but close enough for an easy trip)

 

Daily Ticket Prices: A+ (Given the sheer size, snowfall and lack of crowds, $60/day - or $63 for open to 9 p.m. - is one of the best deals anywhere. And it's hard not to fall in love with a place that offers a $47 locals midweek discount.)

 

Season Pass Prices: A (I believe it's one of or the cheapest pass(es) for a big resort in Utah)

 

OVERALL: A

 

Comments: An 'A' might seem high given some of the low grades, but mostly where Pow Mow scores low is stuff I really don't care about as a local (I can go home or to an in-town restaurant for a beer or a good meal). The only thing that really affects me is the poor lift system, but even that can be spun into a positive (more room to roam and find long-lasting snow). Also you tend to forget negatives when doing knee+-deep laps with on-demand face shots for the majority of days at a mountain.

Absolutely.  Don't forget the 3.2 at the Shooting Star Saloon. I think they close at 5 though.  Possibly the best place .... indeed, but watch out for the Yetis.

A for PowMow and Basin which incedently has sick groomer to shred on icy days or if that happens to float your boat.

hard to be subjective, and harder to compare different areas.

just read someone would stand in line an hour for 130' of vertical ?? Makes the biggest gripes I have about Whistler seem pretty trivial. And what's anyone giving Helmlock A+,  I suppose the 23 better hills in B.C. should get at least AA+ or better  A to the power of their

placement.  However if your having fun on your local hill its all good. Maybe a "report card" would be more realistic it listed 3 things you like about your area - there must be something or you wouldn't go there, and the first 3 things you would improve - all areas need improvement there is no perfect ski resort - yet..         

Quote:

Originally Posted by noncrazycanuck 

hard to be subjective, and harder to compare different areas.

just read someone would stand in line an hour for 130' of vertical ?? Makes the biggest gripes I have about Whistler seem pretty trivial. And what's anyone giving Helmlock A+,  I suppose the 23 better hills in B.C. should get at least AA+ or better  A to the power of their

placement.  However if your having fun on your local hill its all good. Maybe a "report card" would be more realistic it listed 3 things you like about your area - there must be something or you wouldn't go there, and the first 3 things you would improve - all areas need improvement there is no perfect ski resort - yet..         

I think the hour-long liftline reference was to Blue Mountain, still a speedbump by BC standards, still crowded and icy, but bigger than 130'.

RESORT/SKI AREA: Stowe Mountain Resort, Vermont

Terrain: For the east: A+. Stowe had more open terrain throughout the season this year than anywhere else, even our friends on the other side of the mountain (Smuggs).

Terrain Park: B. Don't spend the time in there like I used to, but the time I did spend in there was pretty good.

Programs...

*Kids: A+++. I work there, after all. So it must be exemplary.

*Race: A+. MMC is always winning stuff, and Stowe is home to the NCAA Champion University of Vermont Catamounts. So we did okay this season.

Grooming: B. I could do with less of it some days. On other days, the ice was a little fast to show up.

Lift Design: A-. Upgraded from a B last year with the addition of a new main quad. The only problem is the actual layout of the lifts. The Gondi and the Quad are too far apart for easy transit, and is there any reason you have to climb up a steep hill before you can board the Quad? They should have extended the quad down to the base lodge when they replaced it last summer.

Cleanliness: A+. We be classy up in here, no dirtiness allowed.

Ambiance: A or D, depending. The two bases (Mansfield and Spruce) are completely different from one another. If you're looking for upscale ritziness, then Spruce gets the A and Mansfield the D. If you're looking for old school, ski bum style amenities, then swap those, giving Mansfield the A and Spruce the D.

Customer Service: A+. I mentioned I work there, right? And I'm obviously awesome.

Apre Ski: A+. One cannot beat getting 'horny at the Matterhorn.

Food: B. Food quality is excellent. Price is not.

Parking: A (F). All patron parking is centered around the base lodges, although the far end of some of the lots is a bit of a hike. No shuttle needed though. (The F is if you work there, then you have to park 2 miles away on busy days. We sacrifice to give you your fantastic parking!

Ski School: A++. If you've forgotten, I work there. And I'm fantastic.

Snow Making: B. They did the best this year with what they had, which wasn't all that much. They do need to upgrade a lot of their system to tower guns, which would make everything more efficient and make for better snow. But since they just dumped a few mil into a new lift, I guess I can't complain too much.

Accessibility: A+. Perfect for me, about 45 minutes from my door. Its also just accessible enough to NYC and Boston that it can sustain a high level of operations, but not so close that we get drowned by non-green license plates every weekend (like Killington or Okemo)... for those of you out west, Vermont license plates are bright green, making anybody from out of state instantly recognizable driving down the road.

Daily Ticket Prices: F. Most expensive ticket east of the Mississippi.

Season Pass Prices: D. Season passes are also among the most expensive, and are not reciprocal to anywhere else. Although the price of my season pass is perfect. I get paid for mine.

OVERALL: B+

Comments: It was a rough year in Vermont, but Stowe got away better than most. We had one epic week in late February, and did manage to scrape up enough other snow here and there to ski woods for most of the middle season. Here's to hoping next year is better.

A great opportunity for demonstrating that I like my ski area better than your ski area, so there so too!

RESORT/SKI AREA: Whitewater, BC

Terrain: A-;  Only 2K of vertical, and some is flatter than would be ideal, but it also has cliffs, sidecountry, and some stuff that's just right if you like your 45-degree slopes with trees.

Terrain Park: C-; I don't use the park, but I can see it. Small, a few boxes and rails, no tables, no half-pipe. Fine with me.

Programs...

*Kids: Dunno

*Race: A-;  Active race team that apparenty does well in regional competitions.

Grooming: A; Not much grooming, which is good, and what grooming they do has gotten much better in the last few years.

Lift Design: C; Vintage. Slow. Prone to mechanical difficulties, especially on busy powder days. Limits the number of people on the hill, though, and waits of more than 10 minutes are actually pretty rare.

Cleanliness: B; OK, but hardly perfect. The snow is always white, though. We only allow brown snow in the parking lot.

Ambiance: A-; Very pleasant and enthusiastic, in general. There are a few attitudes on occasion.

Customer Service: A

Apre Ski: Not much at the area.

Food: A+; Whitewater has food like no other ski area, and cookbooks to prove it.

Parking: C; Parking can be a serious problem on powder days. If you don't get there early, you can end up a pretty good (bad) hike from anything. Cars can be parked on both sides of the access road, reducing it to one lane. Maintenance of a reasonable travel lane through the parking lot has been an ongoing problem. If the attendants stop parking in a row to leave the lane open, often someone will come in an hour later, move the cone, and squeeze in, leaving the lane barely wide enough for a pickup truck and not wide enough for an ambulance. Further, the person who was formerly on the end of the row may not be able to open their door enough to get into their car because of the idiot parked 4 inches away. Management has refused to install heavier permanent or semi-permanent barriers to mark the ends of the rows because they would make snow removal more difficult.

Ski School: B

Snow Making: What?!?

Accessibility: B-; And we like it that way. First, you have to get to Nelson, which can be a problem in itself. The access road is 6 miles of gravel. It's usually maintained pretty well, but sometimes the equipment operator sleeps in. I've driven in through 12" of unplowed fresh (only once), which isn't a problem in a 3/4-ton 4x4 pickup, but pretty sketchy in anything smaller. Accidents can completely block the road, which is great if you're already up there, but bad if you're not or if it's the end of the day and nobody gets to go home. Powder mornings are aggravated by the fact that everyone in Nelson with anything that (sort of) runs is trying to get up the road, regardless of what kind of bald tires they might have. Go early. You'll park closer, too.

Daily Ticket Prices: B; The price is rising, and I think it's more than Schweitzer.

Season Pass Prices: C; I pay it, but, again, Schweitzer is cheaper.

OVERALL: A-; Terrain and natural snow carry great weight in my opinion of the overall rating, despite the issues with the access road and parking. I avoid both those issues by going early.

Comments: Whitewater is the Real Thing. Large quantities of snow, enthusiastic skiers of all ages (some of the best skiers here are pushing 70), decent terrain (albeit limited groomers), no express chairs, no quads, no snowmaking, no lodging, limited grooming, fantastic glades, etc. Whitewater is about skiing. Period.