87% of beginners FAIL!

I'd like to know what percentage of these former first timers want to continue ski but don't come back due to the cost of the sport.

With tennis, it is not necessary to play at an expensive club.  With golf, it is not necessary to spend $90 per day in green fees (most muni courses will cost much less).  Skiing is expensive, particularly when travel and lodging costs are factored in. 

I think that for a lot of first time skiers, the following reasons come into play:

• Skiing is just a novelty - something they try once with no intention of 'taking it up as a sport'
• They live too far away from ski areas to make it something they realistically consider to do more often - novelty factor again
• Too expensive.

from my worst lesson of all time.... One student was visiting from Lebanon and all she wanted was to go up on the chairlift and survive getting down.  I spent 2 1/2 hours working with her to accomplish that.
BTW, what made the lesson the worst ever was the mix of students, 4 students who didn't seem to understand that skiing involved sliding over a frozen surface, mixed in with a little hockey player who "skated" down the hill.  I gave him his lesson ticket back and told him where to ski until the next lesson started.

I think the reasons are probably many and complex but there are a couple of things I believe may be influencing this if it does indeed represent a decline.

I have worked with young people for over 30 years. I have witnessed over these years and particularly in the last 10 or so, a dramatic rise in the constant desire for immediacy. There is a reduced preparedness at least here in the UK to invest time and effort to acquire something. I recently spoke to the husband of my 26 year old neice and asked if he had ever fancied trying skiing. His response was 'why would I want to spend all that money on something I'm no good at.' He misses the point of so many things on so many levels.

The kids I first worked with those years ago will be in their late 40s now. The atitudes have had time to filter through. I'm not suggesting it's the main reason but I think it's a factor. It takes time and effort to accomplish things that offer the rewards that skiing does. Fewer and fewer people are prepared to invest themselves in this.

Secondly and I don't know whether or not this responsibility increases as the above point becomes more prevalent but those of us who teach skiing, however much and at whatever level need to be conscientious and knowledgabale teachers. Not just knowledgable as to the technical aspects of the sport which so many get so pedantic about on here but knowledgable about how people learn; how fear shows itself and can be addressed; what motivates different people etc. etc.

Instructors have just got to be all things to those beginners and guide them on their journey. It's not enough to be living the party life. It's a hugely responsible role. On it may hang the key to whether that journey is continued with all its joy and fun and passion or whether the first visit is also the last.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILOJ 

I think that for a lot of first time skiers, the following reasons come into play:

• Skiing is just a novelty - something they try once with no intention of 'taking it up as a sport'
• They live too far away from ski areas to make it something they realistically consider to do more often - novelty factor again
• Too expensive.

It is also a bit tough to go through the learning process.  In tennis or golf you miss the ball and that's about it.  In skiing you fall quite a  bit (at least I did when I started), and this could be demoralizing.  A lot of first timers rent the equipment and the boots may not fit right which adds to the pain.  Some also over-dress assuming that it'll be super cold since they are going to the snow, and end up over-heating and hating it after the first day.  After all this, plus the expense and the four hour drive, I can't believe I ever went back :).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookey67 

As an instructor myself, I'd be interested to know: Did they breakdown said stat via age groups (i.e. kids versus adults)? Is this an across-the-board stat or does it vary from region to region and resort to resort (I would think that it does).

I might fall into this category, simply because with 2 kids in college, I'm lucky to get out at all.  That doesn't change the fact that I hope and dream that one day....  hopefully sooner than later, I'll get to ski more!

I somewhat understand where he is coming from.  A lot of my friends are snowboarders and a lot of times I'm the only skier on our trips.  They regularly try to get me to snowboard, but I'm just not willing to go through the learning process when I can have a blast on the skies.  Perhaps similarly with the guy you spoke to, there are other things he enjoys doing and can do those instead of learning a whole new sport (he is obviously wrong in this case, and missing out on a whole lot but that's a discussion for another thread).

I think part of the answer is at what age does this apply.  Younger (2-13) kids that are introduced by parents through lessons (whether or not the parents ski) continue with the sport, young (13-25) adults are less likely to take lessons and more likely not to like the experience if they get in over thier head.  Adults I would guess the fear of failling now becomes a concern.

Maybe the ski associations should make it attractive for kids to learn to ski at little or no cost (ie push the drug (skiing) for free until your hooked).  They just built the next generation of cash flow.

Think on how many members of this group will do anything to ski and how much they spend on a yearly basis.  Most cases I'll bet they started as kids.

The ski areas and schools in general have stopped providing beginners with suitable introductory programs such as ski week packages. I had the immense good fortune to be enrolled in a 2 week kids program in Kitzbuehel when I was  6 or so. By the end of that, not only could I ski pretty decently but I was hooked. It's not a sport that lends itself to the one half-day lesson as a novice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolo 

Could there be a correlation between the lousy retention of first timers at skiing and the projected rate of obesity in the U.S. of 42% by 2030 (according to 42% of American adults will be obese by 2030, study says)?

 

More questions than answers, unfortunately. As I recall this statistic does represent a slight worsening of the situation since the last time I paid attention in 2002, when it was around 85% There was a hue and cry at the time at NSAA and many initiatives were launched, but apparently they did not succeed in affecting the retention of new skiers. What happened to those initiatives?

As for comparing statistics, what is the base population?  Is it 87% of a larger number than 2002?  First time skiers where?  Big mountains in the Rockies or all over?

There are lots of first-timers at Massanutten.  Most have never even seen snow before in any form, especially if they are from Florida.  Some are taking advantage of a free 2-night/3-day weekend offered by the timeshare developer.  Others are timeshare owners who are trading to check out the fun in northern Virginia in general.  The smart ones get the rental/lift ticket/beginner lesson package.  The ones who just rent rarely can figure out enough to have much fun.  Actually see plenty of obese skiers who do quite well, so that doesn't feel like an issue at a little hill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolo 

According to statistics presented at the NSAA Meeting at San Antonio yesterday, "87% of first time skiers do not return."

 

That's a tasty stat, but I wonder...

 

How does it compare to other active sports?

Does this statistic represent a worsening in the retention of beginner skiers?

Why do so few people who try skiing stay with it? 

What can be done about it?

Is the fact that the sport only retains around 15% of people who try a bad or a good thing for current skiers?

 

What do you think? 

Imagine how slammed first chair would be on powder days if that number was more like 50%.  Be thankful?  Would be interested to see a breakout of reasons why though.. Did they take a lesson?  Did they consider the sport cost prohibitive?  Etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDaysNight 

The ski areas and schools in general have stopped providing beginners with suitable introductory programs such as ski week packages. I had the immense good fortune to be enrolled in a 2 week kids program in Kitzbuehel when I was  6 or so. By the end of that, not only could I ski pretty decently but I was hooked. It's not a sport that lends itself to the one half-day lesson as a novice.

Excellent point. My intro to downhill skiing was a one week trip to the Laurentians (Mont Garceau) that was a French immersion week. We had lessons and at the end of it I could snowplough decently. My school ran the trip fro seniors enrolled in French. I loved it and went in grades 12 and 13 as well. In grade 13, my father bought me my first pair of skis and boots for Christmas and except for 2 spells have not looked back.

Another question about those stats is the intention of the respondents: For how many of the 87% that never return was their first ski experience a one-time event? It'd be interesting to see what proportion were committed to the time and effort to learn vs. those that were just trying it out. My gut feel is that many "went along" with a group rather than having a real desire to master the art and commit to the learning curve required.

My only experience snowboarding was part of a ski weekend in the Gatineau Hills with friends. We took some boards to try out. I went boarding on the first day and got so busted up i said "never again!" I have way too much to learn and do as a skier to mess around on one of those things. that was 14 years ago and i have still not had a desire to get back on "one of those things" again! i skied the other two days.

Why do we want more skiers?

I suspect that those that do are "in the buisness" and profit from more volume.

Me, I want less skiers...

There are plenty of first-timers that are doing a bucket-list type thing and have no intention to ever ski again. Does it count as a "fail" if they don't. I went sky-diving once. I have no interest in doing it again. I don't think the sky-diving school or industry failed.

My guess is that the "return" rate is much higher for those who were EXCITED to go skiing BEFORE they ever did it and much lower for those who only go because their parents/spouse/friends pushed them or they thought that they should give it a try because it would be a good sport for their kids to get exposed to.  There is also likely a group with limited access (distance and/or $) who want to do it once to say they did it, but have no real intentions/ability to return.

As much as I love skiing, I don`t think it is for everyone- some people have legit reasons for preferring other sports and others simply don`t seem to enjoy any sports.  Travel distance, cost, cold, lack of comfort/hassle of equipment, fear, risk of injury, lack of athleticism and frustration by lack of immediate results are all factors.

Ehe, I was so young that I had no say in the decision to return after the initial "exposure". I kept skiing, and skiing and coming back for more, season after season.

I can hardly remember a season when I did not ski (except 2006-2007...but that was not of my making).

Now, other sports that stuck with me are :

-Swimming (can't stay away from water....and that was my own making..I started to try adn reach the water at barely 10 months old), I recently expanded it to skin diving

-Inline skating

On and off:

-Tennis

-Target shooting

-MTB

-Running

Practiced for some years and then abandoned (for the time being)

-Judo

-Taiji

Now, the only one for which I could be defined a "first timer" is taiji, and eventhat, I did it for 2/3 years before dropping it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adie 
 I recently spoke to the husband of my 26 year old neice and asked if he had ever fancied trying skiing. His response was 'why would I want to spend all that money on something I'm no good at.' He misses the point of so many things on so many levels.

 

 

That is why we beat our family members until they ski, or slowly brainwash them by making everything in their life connected with skiing until they can't think about anything else or their resolve is broken. 

I do think that those people with dedicated skiers in their family and friend circles are more likely to try it and end up sticking with it because they enjoy it, even if it does just start out with wanting to please our demands.


I actually find the idea of free (or very cheap lesson's for young kids) quite clever, anyone know any places that do something similar? 

I think it is mainly cost. When I started I was in a six week program provided by the public school district. We were bus'd three hours to the nearest ski area every saturday, rental, lift ticket (3.50 at that time) and lessons. The parents did not have to worry about anything if they did not ski, which was true in my case. Big cost saving for family. Good point about these programs not available today, save a lot family money for travel and dad or mom doesn't have to sit in the lodge. Our local area is promoting youg skiers by giving really low cost passes for under 18 skiers, trying to get them hooked for the future, but this does not drop the cost of those who have to drive two or three hours to get to the mountain.

The small area that I teach part time at sort of cut their own throat as far as beginer lessons go. They made goggles mandatory for students and offered only 20.00 goggles for those who did not have them. Parents were not happy after all the other money was kicked out to have to pay for an item that might only be used once. I tried to have a few pairs of big safety glasses like you get for visitng industrial sites that I could lend out if needed. Pretty funky but the kids like them and it saved money for the family.

I do agree that I would like to see less skiers on the hill (selfish me) but also live with the reality that the less skiers the more it is going to cost me. So until I can get Bill Gates to buy our local mountain and donate it to parks and rec so locals have 5.00 lift tickets fill up the bunny hill and let me have the off groomed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

 I went sky-diving once. I have no interest in doing it again.

Did you fly or did someone else fly (tandem)?

Not knowing that guy in particular it's hard to judge, but just in general there are a LOT of sports/activities one could try out -- so many that if you tried them all, you'd probably go broke and still be crappy at most of them.  Some people might find that really fun, but others would not.  Most people are somewhere in the middle.

Desire for mastery/expertise and desire for novelty are probably more individual psychological factors than something to pass judgement on.  Some people get REALLY into a few things, others like trying lots of new activities but not delving into them as deeply.

General desire for immediacy is a human trait, but there's at least anecdotal evidence that modern society and technology has increased the expectation of immediacy.  When you can pull up seemingly any piece of information in the world or get in contact with anyone you know in about five seconds, I guess everything else seems slower.  Whether that is significantly impacting skier retention is hard to say.

You can add 'grumpy, entitled locals' to the list of factors for not coming back. 

Talking of immediacy, is there an immediate "get them ready to experience skiing as play instead of work, instead of defense from danger" focus in your teaching?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthias99 .

 

You can add 'grumpy, entitled locals' to the list of factors for not coming back. 

Mission accomplished 

I am a beginner that did not fail but that was not through anything that could be attributed to myself. I had a boyfriend dedicated to making sure that my entry into skiing was successful.  Without him, I would not have lasted beyond the first night.

Skiing equipment is expensive.  He overcame that by hunting down used skis and boots that were very reasonably priced so cost was not the bar to entry that it would have been.

Learning to ski is hard and I struggled with learning from the teachers in the lessons that the resort provided. In fact, I walked away from some of those lessons ready to pack it in.  For the most part, the teachers were excellent; I was just not a good learner.   He put in a lot of time supplementing the lessons I got by helping me practice and re-explaining the things I got mixed up.   I wouldn't have made it without his coaching, encouragement and faith in my ability to get it.

I don't find skiing to be a very enjoyable solitary experience.  I have been skiing by myself and I enjoy it a lot better when I have company.  I live a distance from the slopes so having company on the trip there and back as well as an automatic companion on the chairlift is far more pleasant than chatting up the random strangers that you share the lift with.  If I had of started this trek by myself, I wouldn't have continued.

I will agree with other folks... I selfishly don't want other people on the slopes with me.  I love a nice weekday night with the crisp night air and the moon overhead and NO line-up at the chairlift.  Heaven on earth! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantunamunch 

Talking of immediacy, is there an immediate "get them ready to experience skiing as play instead of work, instead of defense from danger" focus in your teaching?

Lesson goals, in order of importance, are:

1. Safety
2. Fun
3. Learning

You're not going to have much fun if patrol has to drag you to the hospital because you did something really dumb.  So, yeah, there's some of that.  But beyond not getting killed or injured, the general emphasis is fun and engagement, and then hopefully at the end you've learned something.  :-)