EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › Salomon Guardian/atomic Tracker vs. Tyrolia Adrenelin (and whatever fischer is calling theirs..)
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Salomon Guardian/atomic Tracker vs. Tyrolia Adrenelin (and whatever fischer is calling theirs..)

post #1 of 143
4/30/12 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 

So both look interesting as potential Duke killers but the proof is on the snow.  Anyone ski both and can compare contrast. I am most interested in

 

Stack/stand height

 

Actual functionality

 

Alpine feel? - how close to a Alpine binding

 

Stability

 

ice buildup issues

 

Ps- I don't care about weight. Neither are light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #2 of 143
4/30/12 at 4:20pm

You forgot about the Elan version and with Kastle working with Tyrolia now..I am sure we will see an all white one pretty soon down the road. 

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post #3 of 143
4/30/12 at 4:52pm

From people I know  who have had access to both the Salomon/Atomic and the new Duke, the reports are glowing about both. It is worth noting that getting one's paws on either of those bindings at the moment is mighty tough, so credible feedback is hard to find...

 

This probably is not much help, but the comments lead me to believe that you could treat either one as a tourable almost no compromises alpine binding. The remaining compromises are still weight and stack height - with the Salomon being lower, but supposedly heavier (although I am not 100% sure about whether or not that that is based on the old Duke,  or how the new one compares weight-wise). Comments on both indicated that they were super rigid and transmitted force quickly. Apparently the new Duke is a huge step up from the current one. 

 

I was most interested in the Duke comments - a total surprise. Especially as they mainly came from someone who is a fan of bindings low to the deck. Since the Duke stays a bit taller, I was expecting negative feedback. These were incredibly postive comments from people who are stronger skiers than most of us here will ever aspire to be. At least one of whom arguably has a bit of a brand affiliation that might have led to different comments.

 

I've heard less about the Tyrolia. Hard to tell what the scoop will be with it. 

 

I'll bet you a six pack that after a few days you acknowledge weight does matter a lot. Even if you decide the trade off is worth it.

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post #4 of 143
4/30/12 at 4:55pm

The Fischer binding in this category is (also) called the Adrenaline, probably because Tyrolia is making them for Fischer as they are for Head. 

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post #5 of 143
4/30/12 at 5:34pm
Thread Starter 

great info, Its not that I don't care about the weight, its just hat all are about the same so claiming one or another is substantially or substantively lighter is debatable. but hey, I would still be happy to have that beer with you.  I don't think this will be the last thread on these new challengers to the thrown (pun intended)

 

 

Phil, no I didn't know about that one.  I will do some searching.  But as we discussed earlier today, the guardian seems like a good choice.  I still think the lower stack height is a real advantage but lets see, It's just May so we do have time but its fun to do the research and it helps keep my head in the game. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

From people I know  who have had access to both the Salomon/Atomic and the new Duke, the reports are glowing about both. It is worth noting that getting one's paws on either of those bindings at the moment is mighty tough, so credible feedback is hard to find...

 

This probably is not much help, but the comments lead me to believe that you could treat either one as a tourable almost no compromises alpine binding. The remaining compromises are still weight and stack height - with the Salomon being lower, but supposedly heavier (although I am not 100% sure about whether or not that that is based on the old Duke,  or how the new one compares weight-wise). Comments on both indicated that they were super rigid and transmitted force quickly. Apparently the new Duke is a huge step up from the current one. 

 

I was most interested in the Duke comments - a total surprise. Especially as they mainly came from someone who is a fan of bindings low to the deck. Since the Duke stays a bit taller, I was expecting negative feedback. These were incredibly postive comments from people who are stronger skiers than most of us here will ever aspire to be. At least one of whom arguably has a bit of a brand affiliation that might have led to different comments.

 

I've heard less about the Tyrolia. Hard to tell what the scoop will be with it. 

 

I'll bet you a six pack that after a few days you acknowledge weight does matter a lot. Even if you decide the trade off is worth it.

 

 

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post #6 of 143
5/1/12 at 10:51am

Weight matters. Even Bridgette knows that:

 

PHOTO_10826084_75233_7444965_ap_730X550.jpg&w=640&h=0

 

But I think Finndog's point is valid. Most of these bindings are going to weigh in at a similar level. If you want light, go Dynafiddle.

 

All in all, I'm psyched that we finally will have a bunch of alternatives. Competition is a good thing.

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post #7 of 143
5/1/12 at 10:56am
Thread Starter 

just really wanted to repost the picture..... 

 

Yeah, you can't do better than a tech but then you are looking for a dedicated AT rig. The only alternative is the Duke/guardian- whoever else models.  In anotehr similar post the guardian is 26mm so we are getting really close as far as that aspect goes and weight wise, all are pushing 3000 so 300 grams between friends isn't going to make a demonstable difference on short tours of an hour on moderate terrain. So yes, I agree, its about time there's a viable option out there. Looking forward to the 1st real reports coming in from SA in a couple of months.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure View Post

Weight matters. Even Bridgette knows that:

 

PHOTO_10826084_75233_7444965_ap_730X550.jpg&w=640&h=0

 

But I think Finndog's point is valid. Most of these bindings are going to weigh in at a similar level. If you want light, go Dynafiddle.

 

All in all, I'm psyched that we finally will have a bunch of alternatives. Competition is a good thing.

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post #8 of 143
5/1/12 at 9:32pm

You need to ask yourself... Am I going to the top so I can ski epic on the way down, or am I going to the top because it needs to be climbed.

 

I have used the Tracker a bunch this season, but only skiing. I haven't toured with it, but I have played around with the operation enough. It seemed like every lift line people wanted a demonstration.

Skiing, the binding feels like a Race binding....very solid.

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post #9 of 143
5/2/12 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaracer View Post

You need to ask yourself... Am I going to the top so I can ski epic on the way down, or am I going to the top because it needs to be climbed.

 

I have used the Tracker a bunch this season, but only skiing. I haven't toured with it, but I have played around with the operation enough. It seemed like every lift line people wanted a demonstration.

Skiing, the binding feels like a Race binding....very solid.

That is signature worthy!

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post #10 of 143
5/2/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaracer View Post

You need to ask yourself... Am I going to the top so I can ski epic on the way down, or am I going to the top because it needs to be climbed.

 

I have used the Tracker a bunch this season, but only skiing. I haven't toured with it, but I have played around with the operation enough. It seemed like every lift line people wanted a demonstration.

Skiing, the binding feels like a Race binding....very solid.

 

How tall/heavy are you? 

 

What skis were they mounted on?

 

I have a pair of Dukes on my 4frnt Turbos, and I'm looking at replacing them with either the Guardian or the 4frnt badged Adrenalin.

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post #11 of 143
5/2/12 at 9:27am
Thread Starter 

What is the tracker?

 

 

I should delete this stupid post!  wink.gif


Edited by Finndog - 5/2/12 at 10:54am
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post #12 of 143
5/2/12 at 9:32am

oops...

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post #13 of 143
5/2/12 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

What is the tracker?

http://www.epicski.com/t/105342/sneak-peek-2013-atomic-salomon-tracker-a-t-binding

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post #14 of 143
5/2/12 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 

DUUUHH!  its in my own Thread title.icon14.gif. I gotta stop paying attention to my work.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

http://www.epicski.com/t/105342/sneak-peek-2013-atomic-salomon-tracker-a-t-binding

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post #15 of 143
5/2/12 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

What is the tracker?

The Tracker is Atomic's version of the Guardian. The Tracker and Guardian were co developed with both Salomon and Atomic athletes. 

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post #16 of 143
5/2/12 at 10:55am
Thread Starter 

Yes I know see the tittle of this thread

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post #17 of 143
5/2/12 at 11:00am

After skiing resort on the Duke for the previous season (yes I did do some touring on it, so I am not a total kook:-), I'd say that weight is mostly irrelevant.  I think there are baccountry bindings and sidecountry bindings and they serve markedly different purposes.  If you are concerned about downhill performance to that extent, you are likely mounting it on a ski that is brick-heavy (my Dukes are mounted on ProRiders, not exactly a featherweight ski).  A ski that is light enough to make Dynafits matter will not need the burliness of the Duke.     So the things that matter to me would be the torsional rigidity and the stack height.  Mased on what I heard the Atomic/Solly offering wins in that department.  The New Duke may have lower swing weight, that is actually what matters more.  I am little bit concerned about the release mechanisms of the Solly and Tyrolia being exposed at the back, the Duke at least buries it under foot, so there is no possibility of freaky heel disengagement.  Again, that is something that matters more for sidecountry than for touring.   In any case, dont you have to take the ski off to take off the skins anyway?

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post #18 of 143
5/2/12 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

Yes I know see the tittle of this thread

Perhaps you should be posting in the What are you drinking, right now?  thread.......beercheer.gif

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post #19 of 143
5/2/12 at 11:15am
Thread Starter 

swing weight matters yes, but too high and the ski becomes more prone to deflection. This is important though

 

Mechanisms- yeah, I would have to really see how easy those can be engaged/disengaged. I am sure its been looked into (could be the biggest "assume" ever)

 

Taking off ski to take of skins? yeah, there's a segment in a video where one of the pros (maybe Cody) takes off his skins without taking off ski, That's a really nice goal that maybe a handful of people can do? .....- I could see where this is a cool function on short takes where you could flip into walk mode to take very short walks without skins on on flat traverses and then reengage but its not a game changer.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

After skiing resort on the Duke for the previous season (yes I did do some touring on it, so I am not a total kook:-), I'd say that weight is mostly irrelevant.  I think there are baccountry bindings and sidecountry bindings and they serve markedly different purposes.  If you are concerned about downhill performance to that extent, you are likely mounting it on a ski that is brick-heavy (my Dukes are mounted on ProRiders, not exactly a featherweight ski).  A ski that is light enough to make Dynafits matter will not need the burliness of the Duke.     So the things that matter to me would be the torsional rigidity and the stack height.  Mased on what I heard the Atomic/Solly offering wins in that department.  The New Duke may have lower swing weight, that is actually what matters more.  I am little bit concerned about the release mechanisms of the Solly and Tyrolia being exposed at the back, the Duke at least buries it under foot, so there is no possibility of freaky heel disengagement.  Again, that is something that matters more for sidecountry than for touring.   In any case, dont you have to take the ski off to take off the skins anyway?

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post #20 of 143
5/2/12 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
I could see where this is a cool function on short takes where you could flip into walk mode to take very short walks without skins on on flat traverses and then reengage but its not a game changer.

 

After trying a very moderate uphill on my Dukes w/o skins last Saturday I am very skeptical about the utility of this feature.  And I think skating (as opposed to free-heel striding) is a lot more efficient on flat traverses, as cross-country skiers demonstrated for the last 10 years or so. 

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post #21 of 143
5/3/12 at 5:26am
Thread Starter 

I would agree unless its in the trees or terrain where you can't really skate, like flat but untracked deep snow,  but I appreciate the input - I am such a newb at this!


Edited by Finndog - 5/3/12 at 7:37am
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post #22 of 143
5/7/12 at 7:39am

Hello,

 

I have had the pleasure of using the Adrenalin binding last week in Whistler and tried the Salomon in Winter park in February.

I must say, the Adrenalin is a more universal and better design. It skis like a real binding and even offers normal or "free" flex to the ski. The ease of operation is so simple. Operated by just a pole, and super stable on all types of snow. The advantages I found vs. the Salomon was first of all the touring in a 0 degree position option. The Salomon you are always in a forward stance, there is no way to tour in a 0 degree position so touring across flat is very uncomfortable. To me that was a huge benefit, as I do not have touring boots yet, so I was stuck forward anyway so the Salomon was very awkward. Also, the Salomon flip latch I found to be very difficult to operate and actually flip over into touring mode, where the Tyrolia was very easy and done with just my poles. Also, the crampons for the Tyrolia are amazing. Easy to put on and take off, super lightweight, and made trekking across tricky spring side hills easy and much more fun. I was amazed.

Hope this helps and offers some answers, but I have already put in my order for the Adrenalin from Tyrolia.

It was much more stable and easier to use, so I made up my mind.

Had a great time touing and skiing the resort in the same day. The Tyrolia changed the way I will ski in the future.

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post #23 of 143
5/7/12 at 8:39am
Thread Starter 

do you work in the industry and if so, who do you work for?

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post #24 of 143
5/7/12 at 9:32am

Thanks Colosuper, this is the type of on-snow feedback I've been wanting to hear.

 

FYI, I got a response from Head Canada on my inquiry and they said their guys are still doing some final testing.

 

Now, still waiting to hear if you're in the industry so we can "weight" your feedback accordingly wink.gif.

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post #25 of 143
5/7/12 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colosuper View Post

Hello,

 

I have had the pleasure of using the Adrenalin binding last week in Whistler and tried the Salomon in Winter park in February.

I must say, the Adrenalin is a more universal and better design. It skis like a real binding and even offers normal or "free" flex to the ski. The ease of operation is so simple. Operated by just a pole, and super stable on all types of snow. The advantages I found vs. the Salomon was first of all the touring in a 0 degree position option. The Salomon you are always in a forward stance, there is no way to tour in a 0 degree position so touring across flat is very uncomfortable. To me that was a huge benefit, as I do not have touring boots yet, so I was stuck forward anyway so the Salomon was very awkward. Also, the Salomon flip latch I found to be very difficult to operate and actually flip over into touring mode, where the Tyrolia was very easy and done with just my poles. Also, the crampons for the Tyrolia are amazing. Easy to put on and take off, super lightweight, and made trekking across tricky spring side hills easy and much more fun. I was amazed.

Hope this helps and offers some answers, but I have already put in my order for the Adrenalin from Tyrolia.

It was much more stable and easier to use, so I made up my mind.

Had a great time touing and skiing the resort in the same day. The Tyrolia changed the way I will ski in the future.


I find it odd that the owner of an account made today has had significant time on BOTH of these systems. Even when credible reviewers such as the Wild Snow group has not. Also I cannot even begin to take in to account the review of someone who states they don't even own a touring boot.

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post #26 of 143
5/7/12 at 10:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


I find it odd that the owner of an account made today has had significant time on BOTH of these systems. Even when credible reviewers such as the Wild Snow group has not. Also I cannot even begin to take in to account the review of someone who states they don't even own a touring boot.

That was exactly what I smelled too.  rolleyes.gif

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post #27 of 143
5/8/12 at 9:36am

FWIW,

1) I heard back from a mate who's a CSIA level 4. He says with the width of the ski I shouldn't notice a difference in stand height between the Sali and the Adrenaline. It might be that I'm just not good enough to feel/notice the difference though - and he's too diplomatic to tell me!

2) I also got feedback from Head/Tyrolia and they're still tweaking it for production based on feedback from their pros.

 

I'm still inclined to go with the Adrenaline.

Struth it'll just come down to personal preference. Finn wants a lower stand height, I can deal with the higher stand height but I want some of the features of the Adrenaline to get to/from the powder. I don't think either of us can really make a wrong choice, we just have the luxury of choosing what we feel best suits our particular application.

Looks like we'll be comparing notes about these next year! Too bad we won't be able to swap them out - or that we'll probably be riding different skis so no real way to do a direct compare. It'll still be interesting to see more feedback from people that have tried both on the same ski and see their reports.

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post #28 of 143
5/22/12 at 6:43pm

How would these binding systems work on a wider ski? Would they be something I could use everyday??

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post #29 of 143
5/23/12 at 6:41am
Thread Starter 

I am most likely going with a bindingfreedom.com plate and then Dynafit Radical FT's and a FKS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuk1w1 View Post

FWIW,

1) I heard back from a mate who's a CSIA level 4. He says with the width of the ski I shouldn't notice a difference in stand height between the Sali and the Adrenaline. It might be that I'm just not good enough to feel/notice the difference though - and he's too diplomatic to tell me!

2) I also got feedback from Head/Tyrolia and they're still tweaking it for production based on feedback from their pros.

 

I'm still inclined to go with the Adrenaline.

Struth it'll just come down to personal preference. Finn wants a lower stand height, I can deal with the higher stand height but I want some of the features of the Adrenaline to get to/from the powder. I don't think either of us can really make a wrong choice, we just have the luxury of choosing what we feel best suits our particular application.

Looks like we'll be comparing notes about these next year! Too bad we won't be able to swap them out - or that we'll probably be riding different skis so no real way to do a direct compare. It'll still be interesting to see more feedback from people that have tried both on the same ski and see their reports.

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post #30 of 143
5/23/12 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skibum232 View Post

How would these binding systems work on a wider ski? Would they be something I could use everyday??


1 - the same as on a skinnier ski, only you need to buy them with the appropriate width ski brake. They're made for wider skis basically.

2 - yes, that's pretty much the point of the designs.

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