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Scarpa liners vs Intuition

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Looking for some new liners, Scarpa Plus fit TT are a good price at Sierra and they claim they are made by Intuition using the same Ultralon foam as regular Intuition liners.

 

I've had a pair of Scarpa Tornados previously and the intuition and ultralon logos were clearly visible but on the Plus fit TT there is no branding visible in the close up images. Additionally another review mentions they are very different to  Intuitions but then others say the oppositeconfused.gif

 

If i was in the US Id take a chance and return them if they didnt match the description but return shipping from Australia cancels that option.

 

Can anyone whi has used these and genuine Intuitions comment on the differences?

 

btw I notice gearx in Vermont is selling 30.5s for $20, great deal for those with bigger feet!

post #2 of 23

I have never before heard of Intuition making Scarpas, or even that they use the same foam, though I am pretty sure that, at least formerly, this was not the case. I was under the impression that Scarpas used the same foam as Raichle Thermoflex; I could be wrong.

 

I can't comment on the any difference in how they ski. My Scarpa liners sit unbaked in their box waiting until the liners in my AT boots (Thermo Inners) pack out. I think the Scarpas are designed to be more flexible than Intuition Alpine Power Wraps, given where the stiffening reinforcements are sewn onto the outside of the liners, that, and the fact that they are made for AT and telemark skiing as well as freeride. If you want your boots on the stiffer side,  then they probably won't serve as well as IAPWs, otherwise they will likely serve quite well.

 

 

 

 

post #3 of 23

http://www.epicski.com/products/scarpa-plus-fit-tt-high-ski-boot-liner-mens

 

It looks a lot like an intuition but since intuition is a brand name and I don't see it in the description, I'm thinking that it may be similar but not actually intuition. 

 

post #4 of 23
The main difference is the construction. IIRC the Scarpa liners are built with a seam running down the middle of the foot (slip lasted) and Intuitions are built board lasted with the sole sewn to the upper around the perimeter. Google will give a better description of boad v. Slip lasting than that. The foam seems to be nearly identical.

When I worked in a shop we sometimes had a little debate about who made the Scarpa-branded liners, but we always forgot to ask the Scarpa rep. D'oh!

Anyway, I've had and fitted numerous pairs of the Scarpa liners in tele and AT boots and they always seemed to work as well as the lower end Intuitions. The upper end Intuitions have more shaping and reinforcement, but if you can find the Plus Fit liners in your size they are an amazing bargain. I rate them as a buy now item. cool.gif
post #5 of 23

Which are lower end Intuitions, and which are higher end?  I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that primarily differences between Intuition models was the shape/construction and the thicknesses of the Ultralon?  Or do you mean the fit/stiffness and resulting performance differences?

post #6 of 23

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerbob View Post

Which are lower end Intuitions, and which are higher end?  I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that primarily differences between Intuition models was the shape/construction and the thicknesses of the Ultralon?  Or do you mean the fit/stiffness and resulting performance differences?

 

I consider the Universal and the Alpine to be lower end, but perhaps I should have used the word 'basic' instead:

http://www.intuitionliners.com/products3.htm

 

Versus the Powerwrap, Luxury and Freeride.

post #7 of 23

Well, I don't know if they've always been so, but Scarpa's liners are most certainly Intuitions. From the Scarpa North America blog:

 

This video, featuring SCARPA North America CEO Kim Miller and Director of Winter Product Development Chris Clark, is a great ‘how to’ for molding SCARPA’s Intuition liners.

post #8 of 23

Having looked deeper, I have confirmed that at some point Scarpa went from closed cell Thermoflex to Ultralon foam.

post #9 of 23

I am  not experienced with the Intuition liners but I do have these exact Scarpa PlusFit TT liners in red.  Bob Lee is right about them being  "slip lasted" with the seam running down the middle.  That worried me a little but they still work great even without foot-beds.  I've cooked mine twice - first with, and then without foot-beds.  The tech at our local ski shop was not sure if they were made by Intuition either - although he assumed they were.  Nowhere on the liners or the carton are there any indicators.  I came across a one time deal on these for about $40 shipped.  Easily one of the best ski purchased I've every made!  They work amazing both in comfort and support in my old Soloman Crossmax 10 shells.  

post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 

If this adds anything to the discussion these are the liners out of my Scarpa Tornados which look very similar to the TT ones minus the branding.

 

scarpaliner-3.jpgscarpaliner-1.jpg
 

post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauricem View Post

If this adds anything to the discussion these are the liners out of my Scarpa Tornados which look very similar to the TT ones minus the branding. 

Yeah, a few years ago Scarpa moved from their Thermoliner liners (with the construction that I noted in a previous post) to those that you posted, with the "Scarpa/Inuition" branding. Currently Scarpa also uses an Intuition liner with a tongue, very similar to the Intuition Freeride:
http://www.scarpa.com/scarpa/products/SKI/SKI-LINERS
post #12 of 23
I almost hate to say this but I received some replacement liners from Intuition a few years ago and they are branded Scarpa. They are traditional tongue - not power wrap - and work great in my Salomon boots. More like the Full Tillt liner material than the stiffer Intuition power wrap.
post #13 of 23

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

I have never before heard of Intuition making Scarpas, or even that they use the same foam, though I am pretty sure that, at least formerly, this was not the case. I was under the impression that Scarpas used the same foam as Raichle Thermoflex; I could be wrong.

 

Intuition makes liners for a number of boot manufacturers, including Raichle.  In fact, my first pair of Intuition liners came to me marked as Raichle.

post #14 of 23

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by exracer View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

I have never before heard of Intuition making Scarpas, or even that they use the same foam, though I am pretty sure that, at least formerly, this was not the case. I was under the impression that Scarpas used the same foam as Raichle Thermoflex; I could be wrong.

 

Intuition makes liners for a number of boot manufacturers, including Raichle.  In fact, my first pair of Intuition liners came to me marked as Raichle.

 

Um, yeah, but Raichle Thermoflex liners were not the same foam as Intuition's Ultralon, and that's what I was talking about, and this used to be the case with Scarpa Plus Fit TT liners. Apparently you only read my first post in this thread.

 

 

post #15 of 23

/\/\ THIS is one of the reasons I find it so annoying that Epic won't let you edit posts more than a little while after you create them. Your first post came off as being the authoritative, know-it-all and complete answer that there was no f'ing way that Intuition made Scarpa liners. And no one here was smart or alert enough to call you out on your ignorance. In your defense, you fixed it in a later post, but most people read the first couple things and then either reply or move on - regardless of how late they may be to the party.

 

Intuition makes liners for Scarpa, Dalbello, Raichle (aka DeeLuxe) and probably others as well. And until reading this, I was pretty sure that Thermoflex was just another brand name for Intuition - used by Raichle and Scarpa. I had Thermoflex liners in an old pair of Raichle hard snowboard boots that were definitely the same stuff as Intuition liners. Then again, given that your first post was so completely wrong, I'm fairly sure that your most recent one (directly above) is likely wrong about the Thermoflex vs. Ultralon issue. AFAIK, Thermoflex = Ultralon, and I'm never wrong on the internet.

 

To answer the OP's question, I'm 99.9% sure those TT liners on STP are Intuition and you'll like them, as long as you don't try to mold them at home using questionable methods espoused by internet ski dweebs like us.

post #16 of 23

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure View Post

/\/\ THIS is one of the reasons I find it so annoying that Epic won't let you edit posts more than a little while after you create them. Your first post came off as being the authoritative, know-it-all and complete answer that there was no f'ing way that Intuition made Scarpa liners. And no one here was smart or alert enough to call you out on your ignorance. In your defense, you fixed it in a later post, but most people read the first couple things and then either reply or move on - regardless of how late they may be to the party.

 

Intuition makes liners for Scarpa, Dalbello, Raichle (aka DeeLuxe) and probably others as well. And until reading this, I was pretty sure that Thermoflex was just another brand name for Intuition - used by Raichle and Scarpa. I had Thermoflex liners in an old pair of Raichle hard snowboard boots that were definitely the same stuff as Intuition liners. Then again, given that your first post was so completely wrong, I'm fairly sure that your most recent one (directly above) is likely wrong about the Thermoflex vs. Ultralon issue. AFAIK, Thermoflex = Ultralon, and I'm never wrong on the internet.

 

To answer the OP's question, I'm 99.9% sure those TT liners on STP are Intuition and you'll like them, as long as you don't try to mold them at home using questionable methods espoused by internet ski dweebs like us.

 

I said I had never heard of Intuition making Scarpa liners before, and that if they were doing so now, I didn't believe that was always the case.  I finished by saying I could be wrong. I was inviting someone to show me if I was. You haven't.

 

I've had Raichle Thermoflex too, and I noticed a decided difference when I replaced them with Intuitions, the foam is stiffer. I just went over to them while composing this post, and did a comparison again, did you? Or are you just going by memory of something that you used to have?

 

You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of, puffing yourself up as superior, while doling out an anecdotal opinion. Pathetic hypocrisy. If you want to call me out as full of shit, come with stronger stuff, and speak to what I wrote, not to what you feel it "came off as". I'm not responsible for the distortion your emotional state lends to my words, only for my intent, which you failed to discern.

 

If Intuition and Thermoflex are the same, show me, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong when proven so. However, my Scarpa liners aren't branded Intuition like the ones pictured above, and Intuition seems to be very much inclined to attach their brand to the liners they make for other brands, such as Scarpa, Full Tilt, Dalbello and probably others. I read the Intuition "about us" history page on their website, and there was no mention of Thermoflex, which seems odd if it was a brand using their proprietary foam. Why wouldn't they claim a highly recognizable brand if it was just another name for their product?

 

post #17 of 23

After a bit more research, lo and behold.

 

Thermoflex is the name of a company that makes various products from closed cell polyethylene foam (liners  were a very small part of their business), whereas Ultralon foam is EVA (ethylene-vinyl acetate). Not the same thing.

 

EVA

150px-Ethylenvinylacetat.svg.png

 

Polyethylene

100px-Polyethylene-repeat-2D-flat.png

 

 

post #18 of 23

I wasn't exactly calling you full of shit. In fact, this thread just further proves my point. You stated opinion, then followed it up with a more thoroughly researched POV. My point was that it seems to me if we could go back and edit posts, the less informed version of your post could be fixed to better represent your updated opinions.

You probably are full of shit though. full-of-crap.gif

post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post

 

 

I said I had never heard of Intuition making Scarpa liners before, and that if they were doing so now, I didn't believe that was always the case.

FYI the boots these liners came out of are a 2008 model. I also have a pair of Scarpa Hurricanes which I think are 2010 which have the exact same liner.

 

Either Scarpa/Intuition have changed their branding relationship, (makes sense, can you see intuition being happy with their $200 liners being sold off for $20) or the TT liners in question do use a different process and possibly predate the Scarpa/Intuition partnership.

 

Thanks for all the informative feedback!

post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure View Post

I wasn't exactly calling you full of shit. In fact, this thread just further proves my point. You stated opinion, then followed it up with a more thoroughly researched POV. My point was that it seems to me if we could go back and edit posts, the less informed version of your post could be fixed to better represent your updated opinions.

You probably are full of shit though. full-of-crap.gif

 

Sweet emoticon. However, I am currently not full of shit, as I just got off the pot after a liberating elimination. biggrin.gif

post #21 of 23

Everybody need some clear answers , 

 

Original Liners from Scarpa were made by Palau company in France.

 

At this time Garmont, Dynafit and Scarpa were using Palau ski boot liners.

 

Palau was already well known in alpine ski boots (Raichle) and snowboard (emery,rossignol,deeluxe) fields.

 

Palau was the only company able to produce a preformed thermoliners.

 

Intuition was only making flat position thermo liners.

 

In the 2000's  Intuition company have started a collaboration with Chinese manufacturer for having full production capacity and a low price liners. (the fact is that the liners  are still very expensive at the end for final users ??).

 

In 2007 they convince Scarpa to deal with them  (think it was a little bit cheaper)

 

During the last years Scarpa was using both Palau Plusfit liners and Intuition.

 

Bye bye Amigos

 

.

 

 

 

..

post #22 of 23
^^ Very interesting, and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting that.
post #23 of 23

Why using a thermo tongue liner construction in all Scarpa freeride boots :

- Overlaps are narrow fitting with high shock absorption capacity. They were very adapt for a technical ski but they have to be thermoformed carefully !!.

- Tongue liners don't need a full thermoforming process. They are more precise in first preformed shapes and shops (non bootfitters) are more able to use a heating machine with tubular heat than an oven.

You can notice that Scarpa don't allow using a convective oven now but Scarpa\intuition heat system this is not efficient at all.

I keep in touch;

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