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Ski making the skier or vise versa - is it worth new skis?

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
Ok,
 
Here's a question, is it the ski that makes the skier or the skier who makes the ski?
 
I've seen lots of posts on asking which ski is best, but short of a high end competitive (even to oneself) skier does it really make that big a difference for most folks on buying the latest ski? I'm by no means am an expert skier but while I'd love to buy a pair of new well received ski's, don't really know there is much improvement need to upgrade, update to a new pair especially given costs.
 
I pondered this wishing to buy new skis but honestly, given my limited skills, perfectly happy with what I have today, short of the possible wider powder skis. Mostly on piste, I love my old Elan 666 which I'll admit were partially bought for the demonic nomenclature, my newer Hot Rods are great but I love the Elans and usually ski those, and short of hitting an epic snow dump year, have difficulty in justifying upgrading to anything more than something powder. Really, my current skis work well even if not ideal for off piste skiing. It just seems the incremental gain isn't worth spending when better spent on something like custom boots or even comfort like a nicer coat.
 
So, the question is does one make the ski, using the ski's features to improve oneself or does one use one's own skill to adapt to the ski using or learning the nuances of the ski to make themselves better? Shouldn't one's skills predominate the benefit of the ski? Here where one uses their skill to use the ski to it's fullest verses vice versa? I guess I would liken this to a good driver, the driver uses the attributes of the car to make oneself better verses the car itself really making the driver better.
 
A recent thread went towards should one buy over their skill level? If the ski helps make the person, then it seems one should. So, when should one really need to upgrade if their current ski is isn't the latest greatest design? Is it really that much of an improvement if your not a top end skier?
 
Maybe I'm looking to justify not buying newer wonderful skis.
post #2 of 55

I think there is a minimum performance level below which the skis will retard your advancement.  Many 10 year old skis meet that level though, so there is no need to upgrade just to stay current, unless your skis are beginner level skis, or intermediate skis and you are looking for high performance skiing.

 

There is also a benefit in some situations to not having a ski purpose built for the opposite situation.

EG if you want to ski bumps, or make tight small radius turns, you might want to some different skis if all you have are SGs, or add a race ski for hard pack days, or a powder ski for storm days.

 

 

post #3 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete View Post

Ok,
 
Here's a question, is it the ski that makes the skier or the skier who makes the ski?
...
 
A recent thread went towards should one buy over their skill level? If the ski helps make the person, then it seems one should. So, when should one really need to upgrade if their current ski is isn't the latest greatest design? Is it really that much of an improvement if your not a top end skier?
 
Maybe I'm looking to justify not buying newer wonderful skis.

 

Have you ever spent a day on demo skis?  Meaning taking out at least 2-3 different ones.  I was surprised how much I could tell the difference after just a couple seasons on shaped skis after skiing infrequently for a couple decades.  My first demo experience was at a local hill at a free early season Demo Day.  The longest run took about 3 min from top to bottom, while making plenty of turns.  At that point, I was getting about 10 days on the snow per season only in the southeast while my daughter was learning.

 

Now I'm up to 15-20 days locally and two trips out west each season.  I have an all-mountain ski that I like a lot and am willing to take on an airplane.  I'm not really in the market for another ski.  However, I continue to demo so that I know what skis to rent if I'm lucky enough to hit a snowstorm.

 

What I spent money on a couple seasons ago was new boots from a local boot fitter, with custom footbeds.  Last month I added Intuition Liners during a trip to Alta.  The investment in these boots was three times as much as I spent on my first pair of front-entry boots.

 

post #4 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete View Post

Here's a question, is it the ski that makes the skier or the skier who makes the ski?

short answer? both. either. depends.

 

A really good skier can make almost any ski do pretty much anything, a less skilled skier will see an immediate 'improvement' from skiing a ski that is designed to handle the task at hand. A good skier makes the ski look good, a less skilled skier the ski makes them look good. The more difficult the terrain and snow type, the more the ski matters.

post #5 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 

short answer? both. either. depends.

 

A really good skier can make almost any ski do pretty much anything, a less skilled skier will see an immediate 'improvement' from skiing a ski that is designed to handle the task at hand. A good skier makes the ski look good, a less skilled skier the ski makes them look good. The more difficult the terrain and snow type, the more the ski matters.

 

I agree.

 

Maybe a little better statement would be, like bindings you don't want to be at extremes of the DIN settings, in skis however, being NEAR the bottom end is OK as you have room to improve, being at the top end you will feel somewhat hampered.  In this case, as you start to push the limits of the ski you'll feel as if you ability has dropped as the ski hinders your ability.

 

A lot of budding intermediate skiers are limited by skiing on the beginner skis that they initially purchased (rightly so to learn), but have now reached the stage were the ski hinders progress.  The catch comes as "I'm not progressing(ski related) and I only ski 5 to 10 days a year, so why spend the money."  This first jump spend the money get into a better set of skis (intermediate-advanced rating) the improvement in skiing will be almost immediate because the ski does what you want it to, and now you can start learning again to improve more.  This range of ability is significantly more broad and takes more time to master, so the investment is worth it.

 

The next jump is not as drastic and is more of an issue of personal preference and local of skiing.

 

Like boots (whole other issue), ski have certain progressions and the investments that should be strongly followed or you are limited in what you can do or achieve.

 

Deals being what they are this year , if you find something you like, it could be well worth the switch (improvement).

 

post #6 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 

short answer? both. either. depends.

 

A really good skier can make almost any ski do pretty much anything, a less skilled skier will see an immediate 'improvement' from skiing a ski that is designed to handle the task at hand. A good skier makes the ski look good, a less skilled skier the ski makes them look good. The more difficult the terrain and snow type, the more the ski matters.

 

This ^^^

 

Even some of the new skis have some interesting design and technology that may or may not fit the skill or technique of the skier. 

I tested two 2013 skis this past weekend.  One liked being skied with good technique and really excelled when I pressured the tip.  The other one needed to be appreciated for the ability to sit on the tails and schemer turns.  

There is a market for both skis, but you're most likely to ski well on the one that demanded being skied with good technique. 

 

post #7 of 55

To paraphrase Lito Tejada Flores--demo. If a ski makes you say "Wow" buy it. If it doesn't.  Skiing is about having fun--skiing on a wrong ski may force you to improve your technique but it isn't much fun. And you can improve your technique on good skis too. Also, skis don't last forever--my red Mantras were great when I bought them but won't hold an edge now. Finally--I think skis are getting more versatile every few years--every new ski I've bought (maybe every three-four years) holds an edge better, turns easier, and floats better than the last one, and makes my old legs feel 10 years younger. So rather than asking us, try some demos.

post #8 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete View Post

Here's a question, is it the ski that makes the skier or the skier who makes the ski?

short answer? both. either. depends.

 

A really good skier can make almost any ski do pretty much anything, a less skilled skier will see an immediate 'improvement' from skiing a ski that is designed to handle the task at hand. A good skier makes the ski look good, a less skilled skier the ski makes them look good. The more difficult the terrain and snow type, the more the skier matters.

 

Fixed it.

post #9 of 55

All good points above; let me simply  add the hoary chestnut - it depends on where you're coming from and where you're going.

post #10 of 55
No--let me help you justify not buying those new skis, Pete (as long as you spend the money in the right place, which means on learning to become a better skier).

Better skis do not make anyone a better skier. Period.

That's not to say that you can't become more capable--able to ski more challenging conditions, for example--with a different ski, even without becoming a better skier. But far from making us better skiers, better skis simply allow us to accomplish more with what we've already got. They actually allow us to get away with being less skilled. Indeed, because they may let us get away with more errors, they may even retard the growth of better technique.

Consider the often-repeated legend of Billy Kidd. It's often said that the secret to his success was not super-human athletic ability, but obsessive training. One of his famous training routines involved skiing ice with intentionally dulled skis. In other words, to become a better skier, he trained on worse--not better--skis!

On the other hand, better skis combined with good instruction and training can indeed catalyze breakthroughs in technique. Perhaps the best examples were the original deeply-shaped skis, like the Elan SCX and the "S" ski. For already-astute skiers, these skis simply brought out their best, enabling them to do more with their already-refined abilities and generating spontaneous huge grins! For many skiers, though, they helped them discover what good technique really can do. Many skiers did finally discover the sensations of carved, offensive, gliding turns with the help of these skis, globally transforming their technique and tactics, and stimulating a whole new period of learning and growth. But even there, without good instruction and guidance, most skiers just continued to muscle their new skis around with their same old defensive braking techniques. Elan ski company themselves quickly recognized the need for instruction, as they formed the "Elan Special Forces Team" of instructors, tasked (among other things) with attending ski demo days to help people "connect" with their new technology. Without that, people would try out the new skis and, more often than not, bring them back disappointed because they didn't work any better (and maybe worse) with their old braking-based technique.

So go ahead and update your equipment, if you want. But please don't expect the equipment itself to make you a better skier. Becoming a better skier is how you become a better skier--and that means working at it, with good feedback and coaching. The equipment may inspire and enable you to become a better skier if you work at it.

But it may also just enable you to, as the saying goes, "suck at a higher level."

biggrin.gif

Best regards,
Bob
post #11 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

No--let me help you justify not buying those new skis, Pete (as long as you spend the money in the right place, which means on learning to become a better skier).
Better skis do not make anyone a better skier. Period.
That's not to say that you can't become more capable--able to ski more challenging conditions, for example--with a different ski, even without becoming a better skier. But far from making us better skiers, better skis simply allow us to accomplish more with what we've already got. They actually allow us to get away with being less skilled. Indeed, because they may let us get away with more errors, they may even retard the growth of better technique.
Consider the often-repeated legend of Billy Kidd. It's often said that the secret to his success was not super-human athletic ability, but obsessive training. One of his famous training routines involved skiing ice with intentionally dulled skis. In other words, to become a better skier, he trained on worse--not better--skis!
On the other hand, better skis combined with good instruction and training can indeed catalyze breakthroughs in technique. Perhaps the best examples were the original deeply-shaped skis, like the Elan SCX and the "S" ski. For already-astute skiers, these skis simply brought out their best, enabling them to do more with their already-refined abilities and generating spontaneous huge grins! For many skiers, though, they helped them discover what good technique really can do. Many skiers did finally discover the sensations of carved, offensive, gliding turns with the help of these skis, globally transforming their technique and tactics, and stimulating a whole new period of learning and growth. But even there, without good instruction and guidance, most skiers just continued to muscle their new skis around with their same old defensive braking techniques. Elan ski company themselves quickly recognized the need for instruction, as they formed the "Elan Special Forces Team" of instructors, tasked (among other things) with attending ski demo days to help people "connect" with their new technology. Without that, people would try out the new skis and, more often than not, bring them back disappointed because they didn't work any better (and maybe worse) with their old braking-based technique.
So go ahead and update your equipment, if you want. But please don't expect the equipment itself to make you a better skier. Becoming a better skier is how you become a better skier--and that means working at it, with good feedback and coaching. The equipment may inspire and enable you to become a better skier if you work at it.
But it may also just enable you to, as the saying goes, "suck at a higher level."
biggrin.gif
Best regards,
Bob

 

Don't completely agree with you Bob, but it does sound like something a ski instructor would say  wink.gif

 

 

post #12 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete View Post

Here's a question, is it the ski that makes the skier or the skier who makes the ski?

 

I don't think the former is ever the case; it's always the latter, but...

 

A good ski that complements whatever skill and ability you may already have can certainly make your overall skiing experience a bit easier and more fun, and it can also help accelerate skill improvement.  Either that, or some skis can make a particular task, such as bumps, chutes, trees, powder, boilerplate, etc. less demanding than one or more of those might be otherwise.

 

I guess if you like the skis you're on and are still having fun on them, then stick with 'em.  If you're starting to feel as if they're lacking in some way, then it may be time to start shopping around for what else is out there

 

post #13 of 55
Quote:
Don't completely agree with you Bob, but it does sound like something a ski instructor would say

Gotcha', Rossi. So back up why you don't agree. State your argument!

Best regards,
Bob
post #14 of 55

"Suck at a higher level" - best definition of having more fun ever!

post #15 of 55

Can Michael Schumacher in a Prius beat you in a race driving your midranged sports car?   Or Lance Armstrong on a department store bike versus you on the latest carbon fiber dealy.  Probably yes.   Will they have fun, maybe for the short term but more so for the novelty factor, but then later they will want their own finely tuned high-performance machines.

 

If it is worth it to "upgrade" is your own personal evaluation.

Part of it is whether you have wear on your old equipment, the other part is given whether the new improvements will increase your enjoyment.  You'll have to demo to see if the changes in the new equipment bring you more enjoyment.

 

There are always the throwback days in spring where people bust out their straight skis, or they try to learn telemarking or godforbid try boarding.  So whatever is fun and enjoyable to you is the most important thing.  

 

If you are having trouble in something, perhaps equipment can make it easier, just like a new vehicle with modern ammenities is going to be more pleasant to take on a long road trip then a 10year old car.

post #16 of 55
Thread Starter 

I agree with the above and not that I seek new skis, rather based on the number of discussions on folks looking for the latest skis wondered if I was missing some significant benefit of not buying new.  

 

My personal direction would be lessons and/or boots as I don't put my current skis to any form of upper limits.  I had demo'd (marznc)long ago but have 4 sets of skis of various ages, oldest are my first in a Salomon Verse 7 which is low entry but then again, I just started around 12 yrs back.  Their price was perfect given I bought boots and poles and being midwest, it sure beat renting at $30-35 a shot.  My newest are Nordica Top Fuels (erred in first post) and while I like these, know I would benefit from lessons having loaned em to a buddy who showed me what they (really he) can do.

 

I drive out west for ski vacations so I can take any and all my skis.  This yr I tried the Salomon's for a day and found them completely different, but fun.  If you look at the tails, one would think they were mounted way forward of where they should but, bindings are on center marks.   I had younger (least in the midwest) park junkies staring at em and asking.  I've mix using my others on a regular basis but as written, prefer the Elans as they just feel good.  The Nordica's I'll wear when there is "better" snow but overall, but trend back to the Elans as they just seem to make me happier.  It could easily be that technique wise, they for me are more forgiving and correct for poor or lacking skills which leads me back to planning lessons.  I've intended lessons having not taken any for some time but opted out due to time constraints and kids.

 

I won't disagree that some technology improvements, changes in shape or materials help.  I can tell differences in my current skis but fall back into the idea I'm comfortable in them and really have a few other areas to better spend money (IMHO).  

 

As for Billy Kidd, my wife and I finally caught his noon time gondola meet and ski in Steamboat.  Very nice guy, and as Barnes noted, his consistant advice was practice, practice, practice, then practice more and don't forget or forgo the basics, stance, pole/hand position, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #17 of 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 

short answer? both. either. depends.

 

 an immediate 'improvement' from skiing a ski that is designed to handle the task at hand

 

notice the ' ' around improvement... as in, not truly better. the skier will feel that they are handling the conditions better but it's really the gear making the task easier, not improved skill set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Quote:
Don't completely agree with you Bob, but it does sound like something a ski instructor would say
Gotcha', Rossi. So back up why you don't agree. State your argument!
Best regards,
Bob

 

How about I use your argument?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

No--let me help you justify not buying those new skis, Pete (as long as you spend the money in the right place, which means on learning to become a better skier).
Better skis do not make anyone a better skier. Period.
That's not to say that you can't become more capable--able to ski more challenging conditions, for example--with a different ski, even without becoming a better skier. But far from making us better skiers, better skis simply allow us to accomplish more with what we've already got. They actually allow us to get away with being less skilled. Indeed, because they may let us get away with more errors, they may even retard the growth of better technique.

But it may also just enable you to, as the saying goes, "suck at a higher level."
biggrin.gif
Best regards,
Bob

 

Not everyone has the time to dedicate to training days on the hill, some people (I would say 95% of the ski population) couldn't care less if it's them or the skis, they want to spend the limited vacation time they have having as much FUN as possible. I'd suggest not using "skiing ice on dull skis' and "obsessive training routine" in your 'take more lessons' sales pitch, it doesn't sound fun at all. Better skills trump better gear most of the time, sure, but many people can't afford the time but they can afford the skis.

 

 

post #18 of 55

Bob,

 

It's what Skierish said above. The right ski can compliment the terrain, snow condition and skier style to make the skiing more FUN.

Of course a certain level of ability/technique must be in place but I think they go hand in hand. What's wrong with "letting us get away with being less skilled"?

 

You look at technique as the final and only solution. I don't mind what's happening if I'm smiling and having fun. For me after 40 odd years of skiing that's my number one goal. You are chasing technical perfection and I'm chasing a smile. My quiver of skis helps me do that. It is only part of the picture but it is real to me.

 

"Better skis do not make anyone a better skier. Period"   

 

 

I think it depends on what you think a better skier is.

 

post #19 of 55

Good point whiteroom. Yesterday it was very warm on the hill. Started out w/ SL skis which were fine on the groom but tricky;-) in the deep slop. It took precise press/edge management to ski it. Made a few runs and swapped skis to a full on RR 122mm waisted ski. What a difference off the groom those skis made. Not so demanding. Like surfing a slushy.

post #20 of 55
Guys, some of you are quite clearly missing my point. The question was not, "will I have more fun on different skis," or "will I be able to ski harder terrain or conditions or go faster or win more races on better skis?" The question was simple, at least as I interpreted it: "will different skis make me a better skier?" And the answer is pretty clear--no, you're still the same skier who clipped into your old skis." Yes, you may be able to accomplish different things, and perhaps you'll have more fun (perhaps not, too), but do you really think you got "better"?

It's almost the same question as "will easier conditions make me a better skier?" And the answer is pretty much the same too: no. Although you may feel like you're skiing better, may possibly have more fun, may fall less frequently, and so on. And certainly, if you choose to focus on activities that will build your skills (with the requisite accurate feedback that all learning requires), you CAN become a better skier on easier conditions. But the easy, forgiving conditions alone will not make you any more skillful, and like better skis, may even encourage you just to practice your same old errors, just because you can.

It never ceases to amaze me how much money the average skier will spend on new equipment, and never give a second thought to learning how better to use it--or the equipment they had before--how to get the most out of whatever tool you're using. I guess it's just a lot easier on the ego to "blame it on the gear (or the conditions)." "It can't be me!"

This, along with other discussions here like the "perfect snow" thread, intrigue me, because they reveal the extent to which so many people equate "good" with "easy." I am fully aware that many people are unable to--or simply choose not to--devote the time and effort required to become truly proficient skiers. It's not news to me--I've been at this for a long time! And that's fine--we all choose where and how to spend our limited resources. And modern equipment and modern "easy" conditions allow skiing to be still a lot of fun, even for those who have made little personal commitment to it. No problem (even though as an instructor, I do remain committed to the belief that most skiers could have even more fun--lots more fun--with only a small added commitment to learning, an occasional assessment, a little honest feedback from a competent instructor; I see it all the time! But that's another story, and another discussion).

Again--the original question was simple. Please do not read any more into my reply than a simple answer to a simple question.

Quote:
I think it depends on what you think a better skier is.
Surely it does, Rossi. But my judgment on that would have very little to do with what gear he's standing on. Others may vary!

Best regards,
Bob
post #21 of 55

Thoughtful answers, all. 

 

I think I've grown the most as a skier on those very difficult days as a teen where I was skiing my old straight skinny Dynastar Freestyle 190's, in heavy cut up snow.   Or before that on my Head Standards, that I got when my mom got new skis.  Fast forward a few years, and anything I've skied in the last few years has been relatively easy.  

 

Even with newer (within the last 5 years) skis, it's on the days with heavy, cut up, bumpy, inconsistent snow, that I've been forced to pay more attention to what I'm doing, and therefore have greater awareness of my skiing on the "easy" days.

 

 

post #22 of 55
Yep, and don't you feel like a champion then when it gets easy, DesiredUserName?

Skiing tough conditions is GOOD for your skiing! So is skiing on perhaps "non-ideal" skis. These things force us to develop skill and versatility--two clear attributes of great skiers.

Easy conditions--and what are sometimes called "cheater" skis--are like the overly "nice" coach who tells you, no matter how poorly you may be doing, "hey, that's awesome!" Tough conditions are honest--sometimes brutally so. But they'll make you good!

Best regards,
Bob
post #23 of 55

Assuming you ski at a reasonable speed, upgrading to an advanced-expert ski will not make you a better skier as soon as you click in, but it will make you a better skier after about 30 days as opposed to continuing to ski on beginner skis for 30 days;  They will reward good movements, and give you proper feedback.  As soon as you click in, you may (depending on your skill level) be able to access higher performance at your current skill level.

post #24 of 55
Quote:
They will reward good movements, and give you proper feedback.

Perhaps, Ghost, but the problem is that they can also reward and reinforce bad movements.

Now I realize that some people will inevitably think, "how can they be bad movements if they're functional?" And it's a reasonable question, of course. My only reply to that question would be that there are different degrees of functionality, defined by such things as efficiency, range of effectiveness, ease, and perhaps even the number of options they leave open--the margin for error--for when things don't go exactly as planned.

Best regards,
Bob
post #25 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Yep, and don't you feel like a champion then when it gets easy, DesiredUserName?
 

 

Not exactly a champion per se, but definitely more confident.     

 

If only somebody, somebody would write something or produce some video about skiing difficult and variable conditions.  They could call it "Crudology" or something like that.   

 

post #26 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Quote:
They will reward good movements, and give you proper feedback.
Perhaps, Ghost, but the problem is that they can also reward and reinforce bad movements.
Now I realize that some people will inevitably think, "how can they be bad movements if they're functional?" And it's a reasonable question, of course. My only reply to that question would be that there are different degrees of functionality, defined by such things as efficiency, range of effectiveness, ease, and perhaps even the number of options they leave open--the margin for error--for when things don't go exactly as planned.
Best regards,
Bob

I during ski testing I've skied a few skis that were happiest when I sat on the tails and surfed.

I've also skied skis whose design rewarded skidded turns while punishing me for trying to carve nicely. 

 

Skis can most definitely reward bad movements which is a slippery slope to go down (skill wise)

 

 

post #27 of 55
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

 

 

Not exactly a champion per se, but definitely more confident.     

 

If only somebody, somebody would write something or produce some video about skiing difficult and variable conditions.  They could call it "Crudology" or something like that.   

 

 

Interesting as I too can tell more easily when I suck or ski decently when the conditions or surface suck. 

 

Funny too, especially for my wife who has quite natural abilities, that when we skied loose trees in Ridge or Crowtrack at Steamboat she did great when we had limited visibility.   She is especially susceptible to mental fear, or believing she is less skilled that she is and a long clear view of a slope with trees would freak her out. 

 

Similarly there is likely some truth that a more forgiving ski may make one more comfortable (calm the mind) and hence, improve or least wise, not fight a ski into poor form.  

post #28 of 55
Quote:
there is likely some truth that a more forgiving ski may make one more comfortable (calm the mind) and hence, improve or least wise, not fight a ski into poor form.

Good stuff, Pete. I'd add that being on skis that you like, and that you feel comfortable on, can increase your confidence immeasurably. And confidence does wonders for your skiing!

Also, skis that you enjoy skiing on may encourage you to ski more which, combined with the right focus and accurate feedback, will help you become a better skier. As before, though, just mileage alone will not necessarily make us better. We improve at whatever we practice, so if we practice bad skiing, guess what we get good at?

Best regards,
Bob
post #29 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Quote:
They will reward good movements, and give you proper feedback.
Perhaps, Ghost, but the problem is that they can also reward and reinforce bad movements.
Now I realize that some people will inevitably think, "how can they be bad movements if they're functional?" And it's a reasonable question, of course. My only reply to that question would be that there are different degrees of functionality, defined by such things as efficiency, range of effectiveness, ease, and perhaps even the number of options they leave open--the margin for error--for when things don't go exactly as planned.
Best regards,
Bob

I during ski testing I've skied a few skis that were happiest when I sat on the tails and surfed.

I've also skied skis whose design rewarded skidded turns while punishing me for trying to carve nicely. 

 

Skis can most definitely reward bad movements which is a slippery slope to go down (skill wise)

 

 

 


Well I'm no ski tester but I've never been on skis that I like being on the tails or backseat,ever. Ok maybe one time at this ski party. Now certain conditions will warrant pressure management to be executed towards the heels instead of the toes.

post #30 of 55

BOTH the person AND the equipment make a difference.  It's that simple.  It applies to every sport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just buy the new skis.  It's end of season pricing.  If you don't do it now you'll end up paying more next season.  

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