Can somebody tell me which of these skis I should get (or if I shouldn't)?

I`m fairly new to the sport as well still looking to buy my first pair of skis, I`ve used a lease ski this past season. I don`t think it`s worth buying a ski right now for the most part of us new to the sport unless you have a clear idea what you are looking for. 

From my research so far I`ve learned that boots are the most important single piece of gear you have to buy, so the best for you is to visit some local shops around your area and try them on. Don`t buy boots without trying them before. If you go to a ski shop them you will have a proper boot fitting done where the sales person should ideally measure your feet, talk a little bit about your style of skiing and suggest some boots based on the outcome of the first step, I would recommend you to try as much as possible before buying the boot, also if you have any problem with you boot any point of discomfort you can go back to the shop and they will try to take care of that.

At this time in the year you might still find something at a great price, though you won`t find many options available since the stores are kind closing for the season and replacing all their inventory by other stuff like canoe, bikes, this kinda sport gear

For skis, it really depends on a number of facts like your height and weight as well as your type of skiing, even beginners can be more cautions or aggressive skier... but you probably don`t know that yet since you have been skiing twice, also other facts are which type of terrain you like to ski, and this is something you are gonna figure out after spending some time on the snow, you might like off piste type of skiing, or you might like grommers, trees... you probably just don`t know yet.

There isn`t anything wrong buying skis online, but you better be sure about what you are looking for... if I were you I would probably try to spend some more time in the snow and figure out a little bit more about what you like, what you want... another important consideration you have to make is where you ski, east coast, west coast, canada... different places usually have very different conditions during the ski season, so for instance you don`t really need a wide powder ski if you are skiing east coast grommers, and you don`t want to have a narrow 70cm waist ski you you ski some resort area in Utah where they usually have more fresh snow. Nothing wrong with that, just not the ideal...

I would go look for ski boots first, try as many as you can and buy whatever you feel more comfortable with, then I would get some sort of lease package ski for next season, some shops will let you change skis during the season. So you can get some feel from different types of skis as well as be more familiar with yourself on the snow and have a better idea on what to look for.

I doubt anyone will recommend a specific boot, since they have no idea how it would fit your particular foot.  You need to find a boot-fitter in your area and spend that dough on a good pair of well-fitting boots.  That can only be done in person, but you should still be able to find some good deals this time of year.  Brand doesn't matter.  

Do NOT buy boots over the Internet!

After that, just get a pair of cheap, used system skis that have a soft-moderate flex that are on the shorter side, 160-165cm or so.  You'll want something new and improved before the end of next season anyway, so don't spend much of anything on them.

Good boots are much, much more important than the skis.

I think your budget is very tight and you are incorrectly allocating your scarce $$$.

If it were me, I would spend whatever it takes to get ski boots that fit properly and are comfortable and appropriate for a learner, which basically means not too stiff.  I'd do this even if it cost all of my $400 budget.  Everything flows from the boots.

For skis/bindings, I'd look at picking up something off Craigslist.   I looked in my area & there are skis/bindings available in the $25 to $50 that would be OK for you to learn on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrari353 

And to spend all my money on boots and then buy cheap skis that are gonna break or just plain suck.

Good Point!  

I forgot about how beginners are constantly breaking skis!

So, on 2nd thought, get some sweet, top-notch skis with some killer graphics!  

As far as boots go, just make sure they look good with your skis and have working buckles.  

Boots boots boots.  Read the wicki here on boot fitting, find a good boot fitter and get some boots that can be made to fit properly.

As for skis, if you can afford it after getting boots, use realskiers.com subscription site to judge what skis to buy; you will get the money back on savings when you but a left-over new in plastic ski that meets your requirements.

Not sure where in California you are but I will sell you "Volkl Energy 220", length - 170, with bindings for $100 - http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/volkl-energy-220.aspx  If you live in the Yay Area (or are willing to come to they Yay) we can meet up.  Better yet I'll be at Kirkwood this Saturday, so you can buy the skis from me, and get boots from a proper fitter at Kirk?  This will leave $300 for your boots.

Speaking of Kirkwood, they usually have a 50% off sale every summer, and you can find good deals at this time.  Not sure how good their boot-fitters are, but may be worth the drive.  You can find OK boot-fitters locally at Helm, Sport Basement or whatever your local ski store is.

How does a beginner break skis?

You should probably be able to find a good shop nearby the place you ski, avoid buying in the resort though usually more expensive, but you definitively are gonna find a local shop in town.

It is difficult to explain to a beginner just how important properly fitted boots are, but I will try again.  The ski boot is the connection between you and the ski.  The binding is somewhat irrelevant since they all do basically the same thing.  What happens to beginners generally is that they go into a store that sells skis and focus on skis because they look cool because of the graphics.  Only a very tiny percentage of boots look even remotely cool, Dalbello Krypton Il Moro is one.  Boots are generally just one color, mostly black and boring.  So they pick out some really cool looking skis and some bindings if it isn't an integrated ski/binding and then head for the boots.  The sales kid asks them what their shoe is, goes in the back and returns with a pair of boots.  The beginner puts one on and the kid asks "how does it feel?" to which the beginner invariably says something like "fine" or "great" or even "really comfy."  Every one of those answers is wrong and will only lead to pain because the boot is too big, either too long or too wide but most likely both.  The beginner buys the too big boots and heads for the local area. He puts on his new boots and goes out to ski.  When the beginner tries to turn the skis don't react for a while.  The reason is that before the ski can react, the foot has to move inside the boot because it's too big.  After skiing in the new boots a few times, the beginner realizes his/her heel is moving up and down in the boots, so the logical thing to do is tighten the buckles more.  Tightening the buckles restricts blood flow resulting in numbness and cold feet and  ultimately pain.  As the liners pack out even more, the buckles keep getting tighter until finally the once avid beginning skier begins to wonder why anyone enjoys this or how they can ski all day and not act like they're pain.  And their skiing is not improving.  What to do?  Simple and logical, buy some better skis because obviously the current skis are holding back our poor beginner.  But the real answer to buy properly fitted boots.  With boots that are too big, I'm not going to have much fun on even the very best skis because the skis will not do what I want them to do when I want them to do it.  But, with my boots that are properly fitted, I can get on any ski and have a pretty good time and the better the ski the more fun I'm likely to have because the skis will react instantly.  My boots fit like a fine glove and my feet are never cold or in pain.

So, do yourself a huge favor and start out the right way.  You don't need to worry about skis, even used ones, breaking, that is a very rare event.  I've seen more skis broken in roof racks than I've seen broken while skiing.  Go to the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum and read the wikis about fitting and terminology.  Then check the "Who's Who" to see if there's a fitter near you.  If there is, call and make an appointment.  If not, give us specifics about where you live and someone here will be able to recommend a fitter.

That's my advise from 50 years of skiing.  If you don't agree with it, just buy the red skis, they're always faster.

I looked it up and there appear to be a few ski shops in LA, Doc's Ski Haus being the one of them that has products listed on the website.  They had a few boots that might be ok for you (depending on how they fit) at around 225 (the Atomic Hawx 80).  There appear to be a few other nearby shops in the same area too so you could browse. 

I've had much less trouble than some buying boots online, but for your first pair when you don't know how things fit, I agree that it's best to try things on with someone who knows how things should fit.  Otherwise, you'll almost certainly buy too big. 

Borrow some more money and buy good well-fitted boots.  Find some shaped skis at the Sally Ann.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost 

Borrow some more money and buy good well-fitted boots.  Find some shaped skis at the Sally Ann.

I'm as much for well-fitting boots as the next guy, but sometimes I think this forum goes a bit over the top.  The kid has skied twice.  He's 17, 5'10. 125.  His feet might not even be finished growing yet.  To borrow money so as to be able to buy $400+ boots seems a little crazy at this point.

Honestly, if I were in his situation, here's what I'd do:

Read on here and learn how to shell fit.  Make sure wherever he goes, the person he's working with does it.

Go to the LA ski shops.  See how much the low end boots are on sale for now.  At his weight and ability, something in the 70-90 flex range would last him for at least a season or two and those are the boots that often end up being cheap.  This is best as the sales people are most likely to know their stuff.

If their is nothing there, check REI.  The sale staff is more hit or miss, but their website shoes a number of boots in the 200-250 range that would probably fit his needs.  I doubt that LA REIs have a great selection at the moment, but they might at least have the measuring device in the store. Beginner lasts aren't very narrow, so if he can get in the right size boot, he probably won't be terribly uncomfortable and while he might not have an absolutely top performance fit, he likely won't notice it yet.  If he orders a boot, check the shell fit, wear it around the house for a fair amount of time to check for hot spots.  If it obviously is rubbing somewhere, return it.  But trust the shell fit even if it feels a bit tight overall.

If nothing through there works out, check ski swaps for used boots and pick up something for under $100 bucks that appears to be in decent condition and has a flex rating of 65-90.  Again, shell fit is your key tool here.  The liners in the used boots may be a bit packed out already so the initial feel might be closer to the shell fit.  Take someone who knows something about boots and skiing if you have access to such a person, but even people who ski a lot often don't know a lot about boot fit, so read up here.

Be happy with the boots you got for a while.  You've skied twice.  Use them to get a bit better and if you don't like them, but love the sport, sell them on Craigslist (during ski season with good photos).  If the boots were reasonably inexpensive to start, you'll likely only lose 25-100 bucks which you'll likely have made up by not having had to get rentals in the meantime. If by then you've decided you want to ski all the time as one of your passions in life, then spend hundreds and hundreds on boots.

So that would be my heretical advice.  Boot fit is super important, but in my mind, it isn't quite as hard as some people believe, particularly for beginner boots if you have the size right, and I just don't think that going into debt (or even just overspending if you have limited resources) over a pair of ski boots after you've skied twice is a good idea. 

Ferarri353, I hope you're getting the idea.

Spend your $ on boots. At this stage, your ski choice is moderately irrelevant. I know advanced/expert skiers that travel and don't bring their own skis, they will demo/rent a pair suited to the mountain and conditions. In fact I had this argument/discussion with a bloke at my local pub before I went to Whistler.

1. You probably will not be able to tell the difference between one ski or another at this point, they'll just look different (and you should be looking down the hill not at your topsheets...)

2. You definitely do not want to be on anything but a beginner ski to learn technique. A more advanced ski will be stiffer and just won't work at low speeds - think of racing cars. None of us could drive an F1 car - if we could get it going, we could not get it going fast enough to heat the tires and brakes or generate enough downforce to take a corner and it'd spin off or stall. 

Better to spend all $400 on boots that are right for your feet and are properly fitted - which usually means a bit of punching here and there. Demo skis at the resort or just rent a pair. You will not break a ski at your level. Crikey, there are people on this forum that have been skiing more than half a century and probably never broken a ski or binding (mtcyclist?). At your age you will probably outgrow a beginner's ski in 2 seasons but you could use those boots for several years.

If you must have a set of your own skis, these posts should be your guide:

post #13 (mtcyclist)

post #6 (skierish)

post#7 (Ghost)

Welcome to the insanity that is hard-core skiing! 

where did I see this thread before...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcusBrody 

I'm as much for well-fitting boots as the next guy, but sometimes I think this forum goes a bit over the top.  

WITCH...WITCH...WITCH!!!!!

I agree that he doesn't need 1,000-buck high-performance boots, but I didn't see anyone recommending that.  I'm way too lazy to go back and read the entire thread, but all I recall is everyone suggesting good, well-fitting boots.  To my mind, that's more important for a beginner than anyone, as it will help accelerate skill improvement.

As far as flex goes, I was thinking more like 90-100, but whatever...  Even in that range, a quick perusal of the almighty Google found plenty 'o 50%-off deals on such boots, thus keeping many in the sub-$300 range.  He still needs to find a boot-fitter to fit them properly, though.....No Internet!  

Most people have a tough time getting well-fitting walk'in-around shoes on the net, much less ski boots!

250-300 bucks for deeply discounted on-sale boots will leave 100 or more for some used beginer-intermediate system skis.  Easy-Peasy....

Now, on to what matters most.....should he wear a helmet or not???  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skierish 

 

 

WITCH...WITCH...WITCH!!!!!

 

I agree that he doesn't need 1,000-buck high-performance boots, but I didn't see anyone recommending that.  I'm way too lazy to go back and read the entire thread, but all I recall is everyone suggesting good, well-fitting boots.  To my mind, that's more important for a beginner than anyone, as it will help accelerate skill improvement.

 

As far as flex goes, I was thinking more like 90-100, but whatever...  Even in that range, a quick perusal of the almighty Google found plenty 'o 50%-off deals on such boots, thus keeping many in the sub-$300 range.  He still needs to find a boot-fitter to fit them properly, though.....No Internet!  

Most people have a tough time getting well-fitting walk'in-around shoes on the net, much less ski boots!

 

250-300 bucks for deeply discounted on-sale boots will leave 100 or more for some used beginer-intermediate system skis.  Easy-Peasy....

 

 

Wow, common sense. 

All said the deals are there if you know what your looking for Race Boots (Ebay, knew what I wanted), WC Skis (Store, new old stock), Race Bindings (Online Store) less than $400.00 shipping and taxes in.  BTW boots are perfect can be done, but you gotta know the risk.

As a beginner this is more difficult as you still don't know what you need, let alone what to look for.

Beginner skis are forgiving, you don't yet have the skill set to be limited by the skis (my son is 5'7" 150lbs and is still on beginner skis), when you start have the ski chatter and not go where you want it (you'll hit that stage after you get control first) it's time to look at better skis.  Yes you may out grow them in a season or 2.  But then you're ready for something better.

Bindings, anything that keeps you in the middle of the DIN setting should be OK (I ski race bindings because of certain features I want and can justify the higher DIN settings, I'm also aware of the risk of injury from pre release/ no release as you get better this line becomes very fine as your DINs increase) (Package deals aren't to bad, don't bu separate unless you know what to look for and even than be careful).

Boots get something that works, great deals out there.  Again, beginner/intermediate boots will suit you best to develop proper technique.  They must fit. Little extra money here is worth it, fitting if needed.  Comfort is important!  Ghost and the rest recommending boots are right!

Get the manual written by Skiracer55 see this thread http://www.epicski.com/t/111959/back-to-basics#post_1457075 first post  worth the read for all.

Best of luck see you on the slopes someday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skierish 

 

 

WITCH...WITCH...WITCH!!!!!

 

250-300 bucks for deeply discounted on-sale boots will leave 100 or more for some used beginer-intermediate system skis.  Easy-Peasy....

 

Now, on to what matters most.....should he wear a helmet or not???  

Haha this is exactly what I suggested.as his best course of action.  My long post was mainly in reaction to the suggestion that he not only use his entire $400 budget on boots, but that he borrow some more money so he could up what he could spend on boots even further.

And he definitely shouldn't wear a helmet.  But should be required by law to buy an avalanche airbag!

G'day. Any of those boots should do, it all depends on the shape of your foot. 

BTW - looks like they've made a mistake and increased their prices 

Starting with the Rossi Experience Sensor 110 and working down to the Atomic Hawk 80 is your best bet. The 3 under $200 are junior boots and probably won't fit your feet. ALL are from top manufacturers and you'll find great skiers on EpicSki on product from any of them - albeit a wee bit more expensive for the high performance stuff. The Rossi boot may be a bit too stiff for you however but again, the salespeople in the store will be able to guide you in the proper direction. Also, have a look at previous posts suggesting how to purchase skis (cheap) and get an idea of what you'll be spending for them. If you have an unusual shaped foot you may need to spend more to get a boot that fits it properly leaving less $ for skis.

Doc's boot fitting page pretty much nails it but I will add this: First step in boot fitting is picking a last that suits your foot shape and the salesperson at the store should  be able to tell this. Try and keep them on for at least 15 minutes, 30 minutes if possible. This will give you and the boot fitter an indication of where the "hotspots" are. If they give you a couple of choices, go with the most comfortable option, that'll mean less adjustments and add-ons.

I've never had to pay extra for boot fitting. They may suggest a 3rd party footbed. I'll defer to more experienced members on that one. Again, it depends on your foot. You will probably not need too much adjustment since your boots will be made of a softer compound and have more cushioning for comfort. If you have low arches like me, then you may want a footbed to alleviate foot cramps (I still get them occaisionally).

Here's my last boot buying experience:

Last winter I bought a new pair of Head Raptor 130RS at Sign of the Skier in Toronto. I was upgrading (to a performance racing boot) from a pair of Salomon boots (volume, comfort fit) I'd bought in 2000 from Surefoot in Toronto. They sized my foot then gave me a choice between Lange and Head. I chose the Head since I use Head skis and I felt a wee bit more comfortable in them - this could be due to my having worn Head boots before. They gave me pro deal pricing on the boots and suggested a 3rd party footbed for around $50 (might have been a bit less) so I took them. It basically brought the price of the boot to MSRP but I felt i pushed my foot up higher and filled the shell out. I do have trouble with foot cramps (I have low arches) so this helps me but the Head footbed is fine. They punched them out a bit in the store. I took them home and wore them for an hour one night. That uncovered a couple of more hotspots so I took them back once or twice for a bit more punching - no charge. After skiing one day in Whistler I wanted them tweaked again and took them to CanSki (Nino is the guy I use there, awesome boot fitter) and he tweaked them for me. Even with the adjustments they are hard as nails and now are basically fully shaped to my foot.

I understand where you're coming from re: skiing one hill and the cost of rentals. They may have package deals where you can take lessons and the skis will be included. if that's the case, I'd be inclined to recommend you spend your $ on a good helmet - even good skiers crash into each other occasionally. Skiing beginner runs means you'll probably have a few "incidents". Knees, ligaments and even bone breaks heal, brain injuries are another thing altogether.

Hope this helps.

Anyplace that sells boots that I'm aware of includes the boot-fitting as part of the cost of the boots.  There's no extra charge...like trying on regular shoes.

That's yet another reason to have them fitted by a boot-fitter.  Also, if you use the boots a bit, and a painful spot (hotspot) develops, they'll adjust them at no cost.

Any boot too pricey will probably be higher performing than you need right now anyway.  Tell them you're a beginner, you need a softer-flexing boot, and you're on a strict budget.

They'll set you up from there.  Check other shops also, as there are some awesome deals out there right now.

After that, just check Ebay, Craig's List, or a local ski swap for some used system skis (skis with bindings built in) that are aimed at low intermediates.  They should be fine, as people sell perfectly good skis all the time that they've replaced  with something higher performing.  Skis don't break unless you're hucking cliffs onto rocks or stumps (accidentally) or doing other stunts.  

You aren't....yet.  You'll wanna upgrade also before long anyway, so save your money there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrari353 

I don't know how long the fitting would take though...

Probably longer than 10 minutes, unless you have an unusually easy to fit foot.

I knew some places charged for fitting, but I just hadn't run across one myself.  Call them on the phone and ask if they charge for initial fitting even if you buy the boot from them.

Check for other shops in the area.  I would think there would be several in the LA area.  

Hell, even hot-ass, flat plains Dallas, TX, has at least 4 different ones, including 2 with multiple locations!  LA should be able to beat that!

A ski-specific shop is best place to buy, since their expertise will be higher.  

A general sporting goods place like you mentioned would still be better than buying off the net or used, tho. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrari353 

Doc's also said it costs $20 per punch.  Is that like an adjustment for when there are hotspots?  I don't want to pay $20 every time to adjust it...

Did you call them and ask if this is the case even if you bought the boots new from them?  A punch is essentially pushing out the boot from the inside to change the shell shape a little bit to avoid a hot spot.  You shouldn't need to do this very often if they sold you the right boot and aren't trying to get a super tight race fit.  I've never had any of my boots punched.  If your feet are abnormal in some area, though, it's more likely to be necessary.

^^^^ This is silly. The vast majority of stores, including near-slope shops with strong regional reputations, do adjustments for free if you purchase there, have a set fee otherwise, typically $60 to $80. The store you link doesn't have particularly good prices on their 2012 boots to begin with, so it's not like they're making up for great deals by charging for labor etc. And while it's possible you may get a nice fit in an hour, it's also possible you'll require two or three revisits, several adjustments. Which will quickly add $60 or more to their base prices. I'd go somewhere else. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyond 

^^^^ This is silly. The vast majority of stores, including near-slope shops with strong regional reputations, do adjustments for free if you purchase there, have a set fee otherwise, typically $60 to $80. The store you link doesn't have particularly good prices on their 2012 boots to begin with, so it's not like they're making up for great deals by charging for labor etc. And while it's possible you may get a nice fit in an hour, it's also possible you'll require two or three revisits, several adjustments. Which will quickly add $60 or more to their base prices. I'd go somewhere else. 

I agree! Shops should provide fitting and adjustment for free if you buy boots from them! If they are gonna charge for fitting then their price is not really what you are paying for since people don`t buy boots before trying and going through fitting process before, unless of course you wanna some special footbed, insole or something like that, but in this case you are buying a product not really paying for boot fitting.

It`s the same as buying skis, most of the shops are gonna give you binding adjustments, mount your bindings and give you initial and mid season tune up. If the shop wants to charge you for that run away from them, you are most likely to spend much more down the road in a place like that!