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Nordica Helldorado, Patron & Unleashed Hell vs. Rossi S7 (long term tests) - Page 4

post #91 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
 


I mounted mine at "classic" which is about 82 cm fwd from the tail on the 185. I skied all three models that way and always thought it felt about right. I can't personally see any reason to be back from classic. Maybe they were referring to back from "center" which is +6cm from classic.

 

SJ


Maybe I'm missing something here.  I have some unmounted 185 UH's from the blem sale and they measure about 86 cm from the tail (using a straight ruler) to the rear mark.  The front mark is about 92 cm forward.  At 82 cm (4 back from the classic mount, there isn't much tail left.  Thoughts?

post #92 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsknight1 View Post
 


Maybe I'm missing something here.  I have some unmounted 185 UH's from the blem sale and they measure about 86 cm from the tail (using a straight ruler) to the rear mark.  The front mark is about 92 cm forward.  At 82 cm (4 back from the classic mount, there isn't much tail left.  Thoughts?

 

I also bought some 185cm Unleashed Hell a year ago in the blemish sale.  Due to complications related to moving (from Portland, OR to Seattle, WA), I was not able to get them mounted last year. So now I'm trying to figure out where to have my bindings mounted, too.

 

Just measured my 185cm UH today and got exactly the same measurements as Rsknight1.

 

I'm interested in using my UH for fresh powder skiing only.  I can always run out to the SUV and grab a different ski once things get all cut up.  Given that I don't care about anything but powder skiing for my UH, where's the best place to mount the bindings?

 

Thanks.

 

Dave

post #93 of 118

buy adjustable bindings.......  how can anyone know what works best for you. If in doubt just go classic mount ski them and then remount if you don't like.  Asking people to guess is just that; a guess.  Most people seem to like +1 (forward of the classic line) but that doesn't mean you will.  

post #94 of 118
I'm 5'11" 200+ lbs. I'd say I'm an advancing intermediate. Skied around 10-12 days out west last season, a few days in the Southeast. Started exploring some easier off trail terrain and easier trees and want to continue that progression. Currently own a Magnum 7.6 and the older Prohet 90s, which I ski more often than not.
Had a chance to ski several different skis in SBoat last year, including the SFB, which was the first 100mm wide ski I'd been on. I really liked it, but seemed a Bit too soft for my size at times. Had fresh snow most days...deepest probably in the 6-10 inch range.

Anyway, hope to get at least 10 days out west this year. I've been looking at 100mm wide skis, although in reality it's probably unwarranted as I won't be able to guarantee snow conditions. But hey...

Had someone at the shop in steamboat tell me that if I liked the SFBs, I would have loved the Patrons...but didn't get to try them. So, I debated the Patrons, but didn't pull the trigger on the blem sale and missed out. I then got interest in the Soul 7. I've been interested in several other through research online. This thread has opened my eyes to the UH as a possibility. I've found some for sub$400 new. 185s and 193s available. Also found the Patron in 193. Price not as good as the SH Blem sale, but pretty good. Obviously, to acquire the Spul 7, would mean spending almost twice the cash, which is a consideration.
Someone told me the HDO might be more ski than I would want.
I was thinking 113 wide might be stupid for me, but saw you compared them favorably to the soul 7. I want something I can use off trail, in fresh snow, but would also work decently on groomers and skied out powder.

Am I on the right path here? If I were to pull the trigger on either of these two, I'm thinking the 185 length would be the way to go.
post #95 of 118
Thread Starter 

The Patron/Unleashed are different categories of ski than the Soul 7. Both the Nordicas are heavily rockered fore and aft and they are best utilized as deep snow specialty skis. For all that, they ski reasonably well on packed or shallow 2-day-after conditions. OTH, the Soul and many of its counterparts in the 10X width range are really just wider, soft snow biased all mountain skis. While the 10X skis are better all around tools, they do not compete well as powder skis when compared to many of the 113-116 ish powder skis.

 

On a deep day I'd choose a Patron or similar over a Soul 7 or similar every time...........Depends upon what what you want.

 

SJ

post #96 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
 

The Patron/Unleashed are different categories of ski than the Soul 7. Both the Nordicas are heavily rockered fore and aft and they are best utilized as deep snow specialty skis. For all that, they ski reasonably well on packed or shallow 2-day-after conditions. OTH, the Soul and many of its counterparts in the 10X width range are really just wider, soft snow biased all mountain skis. While the 10X skis are better all around tools, they do not compete well as powder skis when compared to many of the 113-116 ish powder skis.

 

On a deep day I'd choose a Patron or similar over a Soul 7 or similar every time...........Depends upon what what you want.

 

SJ

 

SierraJim -

 

Both Rsknight (post #91) and I (post #92) have different numbers than you gave in post #90.  Please read through all three posts and give us some direction to move forward with.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave

post #97 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

buy adjustable bindings.......  how can anyone know what works best for you. If in doubt just go classic mount ski them and then remount if you don't like.  Asking people to guess is just that; a guess.  Most people seem to like +1 (forward of the classic line) but that doesn't mean you will.

 

Already bought bindings.  They're not adjustable.  Since I have only one intended use for the skis, I didn't see the need to buy adjustable bindings.

post #98 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave86 View Post
 

 

SierraJim -

 

Both Rsknight (post #91) and I (post #92) have different numbers than you gave in post #90.  Please read through all three posts and give us some direction to move forward with.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave

 

I won't be back to work @ the shop 'til Wednesday. I'll pull the tape again then. (I mighta read it upside down or something)

 

SJ

post #99 of 118
Jim,

I was confused by this reply you made.
Quote:
You are not looking at the wrong skis at all. Among the lighter, more nimble wide skis, the Patron is absolutely at the top of the list. It is solid underfoot but soft enough in the extremeties that it is not at all demanding. While the Soul 7 and Peacemaker are pretty good, neither makes my top three among the sub 110's. That grouping is pretty much dominated (IMO) by the two Nordicas, the Stockli SR 107 and the Atomic Ritual. Naturally, I expect something a little different between a 105 and a 115 but nevertheless, the Patron is an absolutely great ski and won't kick anybodys a*****.

Which Nordicas are you talking about?

As for "deep" when would you choose the Patron/UH over a Soul 7?

Thanks
Edited by WC68 - 11/18/13 at 5:00pm
post #100 of 118
Thread Starter 

The two Nordicas in the sub 110 group are the Vagabond and the El Capo. I would choose the Patron or UH as a powder specialty ski over the Soul 7 or any other 10X ski. Typically, I view the 10X and the 11X as different categories because the manufacturers tend to do that. In almost every case, a 11X will have more rocker, a softer flex, and sometimes more taper than the 10X from the same company.

 

SJ

post #101 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
 

 

I won't be back to work @ the shop 'til Wednesday. I'll pull the tape again then. (I mighta read it upside down or something)

 

SJ

 

 

Super - thanks, Jim.  And please don't make a special trip before then, as it's not like I just have to have them mounted before Thanksgiving, LOL.

 

Thanks again.

 

Dave

post #102 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
 

Sam:

 

You are not looking at the wrong skis at all. Among the lighter, more nimble wide skis, the Patron is absolutely at the top of the list. It is solid underfoot but soft enough in the extremeties that it is not at all demanding. While the Soul 7 and Peacemaker are pretty good, neither makes my top three among the sub 110's. That grouping is pretty much dominated (IMO) by the two Nordicas, the Stockli SR 107 and the Atomic Ritual. 

SJ
 

To put this in perspective, nearly every single other review site I've come across, obviously not exhaustive but a bunch, and whether international/foreign language, or U.S., and whether well known mags or respected private sites, has put the Soul 7 at or very near the top of the 100-110 whatever-you-call-it list, variously measured. Only exception would be Freerider, which puts it in the top group, but a slightly lower score than several others (including the Ritual but not the Nordicas). Obviously, everyone has their own criteria, which will reflect the tester(s), their size and style, and what they're looking for. And obviously, we need to sort out trendy buzz from reasoned reviews. The one criticism I've read about the Soul 7 is that it can be overpowered at real speed in rough snow by heavier skiers. 

 

My casual sense of the others is that the Patron is typically well up in the ratings, though not necessarily in the top three, the El Capo is often but not universally in the top "editor's choice" style group, while the Vagabond and Peacemaker seem invisible, and the Stormrider 107 doesn't seem to be getting the same appreciation as the 95 and 100. So good to have counterfactual takes on skis, and I agree with Jim that Nordies in general don't get the respect they deserve. OTOH, the Soul 7 seems perhaps to be getting less respect here than it deserves. 


Edited by beyond - 11/19/13 at 10:24am
post #103 of 118
Thread Starter 

To add some more perspective....the Soul 7 was near the top in my testing too, just not in the top three and I tested about 15 skis to decide on the 10 models in the 103-108 range that I bought. I liked the Soul 7 just fine.....but just didn't get all slobbery over it like some folks seem to.

 

SJ

post #104 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave86 View Post
 

 

Already bought bindings.  They're not adjustable.  Since I have only one intended use for the skis, I didn't see the need to buy adjustable bindings.

 

 

of course you do! you don't know where to mount them now!! . With a Schizo or marker demo, you have the ability to mount and dial in to what works best for you.  What's the point of guessing on a mount point and then having to remount them which will cost another $50 and add another set of holes further depreciating the value of your skis. 

post #105 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

buy adjustable bindings.......  how can anyone know what works best for you. If in doubt just go classic mount ski them and then remount if you don't like.  Asking people to guess is just that; a guess.  Most people seem to like +1 (forward of the classic line) but that doesn't mean you will.

Turns out I'm putting the Schizos from my Obsetheds on the Patrons. I've grown accustomed to the adjustability since my Railflex days.

Time to sell some lightly used K2s. $200 and freight anyone?

post #106 of 118
Thread Starter 

Just checked up on a current Patron and Heldo and tail to "classic" is indeed 86. Also just got in a little stash of last year's UL and they are the same.

 

I think I need new glasses...............................:eek

 

SJ

post #107 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
 

Just checked up on a current Patron and Heldo and tail to "classic" is indeed 86. Also just got in a little stash of last year's UL and they are the same.

 

I think I need new glasses...............................:eek

 

SJ


Thanks, SJ!

post #108 of 118

Trending fatter. I remember my first 90 wide ski and thinking how can this be so wide and so short, and who would even know where to begin mounting a set of bindings on wherever the center truly was. So I opted for some Tyrolia RFs and settled the issue my way.

95s were next, then 105s, a pair of 120s and now 113s. Still haven't skied the 120s yet, which are mounted +5.5 recommended by Seth Mo, the obSETHeds were best at +2.

Different camber to tip and tail ratios, and different materials and manufacturers, yes I use adjustable bindings. Not exclusively, but I always have at least one pair.

post #109 of 118

I ended up about +1 from the classic (rear line) on my Unleashes.  BTW- these are phenomenal ski's; I am blown away but their versatility and most surprised by their groomer performance. Hard to believe these are 113 underfoot. Even plenty quick and agile in soft bumps.  

post #110 of 118

So my dilemma before leaving for Vail is which pair of new skis to bring along, Line Sick Day 95 or the Patrons?

Both carve well, and I prefer length on firmer conditions, so the 193s are longer by 3.5", so they should be the choice, but 95 waist skis are a blast and this is the #1 Ski by the testers at Snowbird last March.  Can't bring two pair for four days of skiing can I?

post #111 of 118
Bring both, problem solved.
post #112 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snokat View Post
 

So my dilemma before leaving for Vail is which pair of new skis to bring along, Line Sick Day 95 or the Patrons?

Both carve well, and I prefer length on firmer conditions, so the 193s are longer by 3.5", so they should be the choice, but 95 waist skis are a blast and this is the #1 Ski by the testers at Snowbird last March.  Can't bring two pair for four days of skiing can I?

 

Silly question......:D

 

I mean really......how many day is you gonna get at Vail this year? Don'cha wanna have the right tool along for the job?

 

Just askin'.....................

 

SJ

post #113 of 118

Selll both - buy new Super7.  Problem solved. :)

post #114 of 118

SJ, looks like conditions will be fairly static for these four days, so one pair will do. However, April will allow for both pairs as I will be there at least 6 days and perhaps 9 or 10, if I can get my bride to come out for all or part of Easter week.

January thru March is out though, one of life's little 'dues' payment.

 

FYI Both pairs fit the BIG Dakine bag.

 

Might be on Pali's tomorrow if it doesn't stay too cold in the afternoon, otherwise Keystone for first turns.......unless Loveland looks irresistible.

post #115 of 118
Thread Starter 

For four days with no new snow, the SD 95 makes the most sense to me.

 

SJ

post #116 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by snokat View Post

So my dilemma before leaving for Vail is which pair of new skis to bring along, Line Sick Day 95 or the Patrons?
Both carve well, and I prefer length on firmer conditions, so the 193s are longer by 3.5", so they should be the choice, but 95 waist skis are a blast and this is the #1 Ski by the testers at Snowbird last March.  Can't bring two pair for four days of skiing can I?

Check. The forecast before you go on opensnow.com. Make your decision. If the forecast is wrong, rent. Orjust sack up and take both.

Ed: Oops, I see your there now..have fun
post #117 of 118

The Sick Day 95s it was. What a ski for packed, bumps, straight-lining and just plain easy to ski stick. The Patrons stayed home.

The pic somes up conditions in China Bowl, lower Jade Glade.

Pray for Snow!

post #118 of 118

193 & 186cm.....in this case about 3 inches

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