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Strangest gear malfunction I have seen in 35 years of skiing - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Quote:



Right. This doesn't sound like a binding / brake / alignment issue to me. It sounds EXACTLY like what used to happen to ALL of us several times a winter back in the days before p-tex. Honestly, how many of you who have responded to this thread ever skied on a ski with a wooden or lacquered base? If you haven't, then that explains why you find this so surprising. If you HAVE, then you already know that this was probably one of those weird snow-bonds-to-base events that are infuriating as heck but do happen (albeit usually to both skis, and usually not with p-tex). Something probably happened to one ski, such as being exposed to heat or cold in a different way from its mate, or sitting in water briefly, or SOMETHING that that made the base very very sticky for the particular kind of snow that day. My guess, anyway. More pine tar next time. biggrin.gif


I still have the propane torch I used to use to burn in the pine tar.  OP can borrow it if she likes.  I've had a lot of skis get sticky in a career of skiing Sierra Cement, usually after a fresh waxing with universal wax--the only kind I'm not too cheap to buy--but once you get going the stuck snow clears. The gentleman took the skis off and inspected them--I assume that included the bottoms.  I'm still going with packed snow somehow keeping the brake from retracting--it would look fine with the skis off and in powder it would be hard to notice with the skis on. Sounds like we'll have to wait until next season to find out if everything turns out ok.

 

post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure View Post

Sounds to me like one of the skis got warm and then iced up when you put it in the snow. All it takes is a little frozen snow/ice on the base to make the ski unskiable.



Odd that only one ski iced up.  I've never had it happen to just one.. But, then I usually have both skis waxed with the SAME incorrect wax when that happens.  I suppose it could have been the way the skis were sitting outside the gondi that caused one to be a vastly different temp than the other one.

post #33 of 57
I started on skis that had wood bases and no metal edges. I don't remember a time when ONE ski would slide and one wouldn't.

I've experienced riding a lift where very wet snow from a snowgun coated the bottom of the closer ski and not the other enough that when exiting the lift, one ski would slide way better than the other. I'm not familiar with Mammoth's gondola. Do you carry the skis inside or do they go in a rack outside? If the latter, perhaps one bottom became more coated with something than the other.

How does your hubby clean his boot soles? If he relies on banging with a pole, he may have had some frozen stuff remaining after leaving the lift. If all the equipment seems in good order now, it has to have been either binding/boot or ski base contamination.
post #34 of 57
Thread Starter 

I waxed all of our skis with Tognar universal because the weather predicted spring to blizzard conditions in the same 5 day period and it was!  My son and I had no problem.  At this point, I think the theory of something freezing on the way up the gondola makes the most sense.  Hubby did inspect closely.  He pulled the ski off checked top and bottom sides and bindings, packed down an area of snow to re-pop in.  Of course in knee deep powder, there will be snow ... so who knows how clean he actually got everything.  I guess we'll find out next season.  On the other hand, I may be able to talk him into another Mammoth trip since they are open until Memorial Day.  Fingers crossed!  And - no - I did not sabotage his skis so he would take me back up to Mammoth.

post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustski View Post

I waxed all of our skis with Tognar universal because the weather predicted spring to blizzard conditions in the same 5 day period and it was!  My son and I had no problem.  At this point, I think the theory of something freezing on the way up the gondola makes the most sense.  Hubby did inspect closely.  He pulled the ski off checked top and bottom sides and bindings, packed down an area of snow to re-pop in.  Of course in knee deep powder, there will be snow ... so who knows how clean he actually got everything.  I guess we'll find out next season.  On the other hand, I may be able to talk him into another Mammoth trip since they are open until Memorial Day.  Fingers crossed!  And - no - I did not sabotage his skis so he would take me back up to Mammoth.



But that would have been BRILLIANT if you had!

 

Bummed for you that you missed out on the best conditions of the season.

post #36 of 57


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustski View Post

I waxed all of our skis with Tognar universal because the weather predicted spring to blizzard conditions in the same 5 day period and it was!  My son and I had no problem.  At this point, I think the theory of something freezing on the way up the gondola makes the most sense.  Hubby did inspect closely.  He pulled the ski off checked top and bottom sides and bindings, packed down an area of snow to re-pop in.  Of course in knee deep powder, there will be snow ... so who knows how clean he actually got everything.  I guess we'll find out next season.  On the other hand, I may be able to talk him into another Mammoth trip since they are open until Memorial Day.  Fingers crossed!  And - no - I did not sabotage his skis so he would take me back up to Mammoth.



You waxed everyone's skis? Clearly I married the wrong woman. 

post #37 of 57
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by contesstant View Post



But that would have been BRILLIANT if you had!

 

Bummed for you that you missed out on the best conditions of the season.


Next time I know what to do.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post


 



You waxed everyone's skis? Clearly I married the wrong woman. 

It doesn't always work that way.  We're kind of an equal opportunity family.  He was cooking dinner.
 

 

post #38 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Odd that only one ski iced up.  I've never had it happen to just one.. But, then I usually have both skis waxed with the SAME incorrect wax when that happens.  I suppose it could have been the way the skis were sitting outside the gondi that caused one to be a vastly different temp than the other one.

 

 

Or one going through a slushy patch and the other one not.      

post #39 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

 

 

Or one going through a slushy patch and the other one not.      

 

It was deep powder after an all night storm and still blizzarding; the best spring break conditions I have experienced in years.  There was definitely no slush - at least not on the one run I got to enjoy!

post #40 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustski View Post

 

 

It was deep powder after an all night storm and still blizzarding; the best spring break conditions I have experienced in years.  There was definitely no slush - at least not on the one run I got to enjoy!

 

Yeah, I was mostly referring to conditions where crgildart might see that happen - he skis the east, he skis the early-season snow gun snow.   In those conditions the moisture content is different enough for the ski base to pick up a coating of water under the gun and get almost yanked backwards as those miniscule droplets freeze to the not-so-humid snow away from the gun. 

 

The conditions you skied in call for significantly harder wax than Tognar universal - in fact anytime the air temperature dips after some snow is already on the ground skis will be slow unless the wax is really hard.

 

My second best idea (after actual rime forming on the bases) is that your hubby's skis still had /some/ uni wax still on them, whereas you two had already skied most of it off over the 3 days you were there.    Yours were mostly plastic -his bases had waxy patches - possible?      The uni wax was soft enough to act like XC-skier kick wax and would simply grab onto the sharp blizzy crystals.    

 

If his skis are significantly wider & longer or have more noticeable structure on them than yours,  I would make that my #1 idea. 

post #41 of 57

If it was only affecting ONE ski it's probably not the wax (at least directly).  But not impossible...

 

Quote:
I started on skis that had wood bases and no metal edges. I don't remember a time when ONE ski would slide and one wouldn't.

 

No wood bases for me, but I have seen snow/ice stick to the bottom of people's skis in a lesson, usually when the air temp is just below freezing and it's sunny (the surface of the snow gets wet, water gets on the bases then freezes while you're on a lift).  Snow guns can do it too.  Ice/ice friction is VERY high compared to base material and wax, so the ski sticks like crazy.

 

My guess would be something resembling 'black ice' on the base.  Or as mentioned above, maybe something was frozen up with the binding, but usually that's pretty obvious.

post #42 of 57

Hummm  One ski with a terrible drag, especially when turning to one side.  Nothing visible on the ski after taking it off.  I'm still leaning to a brake prong (one but not both hence the turn one side worse than the other) protruding down for some reason.  But since nothing sticks down now I have to guess that maybe something got caught between the brake and sidewall when he clicked in.  It was stuck between the brake and side of the ski sticking down far enough to drag the snow on that side of the ski, especially when turning.  Takes the ski off and the piece falls free to never be detected leaving it a mystery unsolved..

 

Holmes-Image-Loupe.jpg

post #43 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

The conditions you skied in call for significantly harder wax than Tognar universal - in fact anytime the air temperature dips after some snow is already on the ground skis will be slow unless the wax is really hard.

 

My second best idea (after actual rime forming on the bases) is that your hubby's skis still had /some/ uni wax still on them, whereas you two had already skied most of it off over the 3 days you were there.    Yours were mostly plastic -his bases had waxy patches - possible?      The uni wax was soft enough to act like XC-skier kick wax and would simply grab onto the sharp blizzy crystals.    

 

If his skis are significantly wider & longer or have more noticeable structure on them than yours,  I would make that my #1 idea. 

Waxy patches on his ski are certainly possible but unlikely.  If anything, he skied harder than us  - some seriously rock hard, slick bumps - the first 2 days.  We bowed out on those and chose Sierra Cement.  I ski the Auras and he skis Elan 999; they're darned close on width - his are considerably longer and I haven't NOTICED a structural difference, but it could be there.  I usually find the universal works well in California's variable conditions.  We often hit multiple conditions from top to bottom in the same day.

 

post #44 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

If it was only affecting ONE ski it's probably not the wax (at least directly).  But not impossible...

 

 

No wood bases for me, but I have seen snow/ice stick to the bottom of people's skis in a lesson, usually when the air temp is just below freezing and it's sunny (the surface of the snow gets wet, water gets on the bases then freezes while you're on a lift).  Snow guns can do it too.  Ice/ice friction is VERY high compared to base material and wax, so the ski sticks like crazy.

 

My guess would be something resembling 'black ice' on the base.  Or as mentioned above, maybe something was frozen up with the binding, but usually that's pretty obvious.

We are leaning towards ice on one base also.  He did place his skis in the snow in the parking lot, whereas we held ours upright.  He had this moment of frustration where son wasn't "quick enough" at grabbing dad skis and put them down ... hard, but not "damaging" hard, just "pay attention teenager" hard!  They rested base down in the parking lot snow and ours did not and then we went straight to the gondola.  Who knows why one ski and not the other?  It's one of those conundrums.  We'll find out next season if we are investing in new skis or planning a cool ski trip ...

 

post #45 of 57

Technicas.....famous vintage for becoming brittle with age!

 

(Pics taken at Magic Mt, Vermont this year)

 

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post #46 of 57

 

They didn't call them TNTs for nuthin'!

 

(Rockin the cork - is that the ORIGINAL arch adjustment widget eek.gif )

post #47 of 57

there are easier ways to determine if your toe is touching the endseam of the liner!

post #48 of 57

I'll go waaay out on a limb here and wonder if you've all got the causality backwards. I'll start by predicting that "tweak" was to left knee. Then, What If: 

 

1) Strain to left knee ligament, possibly including ACL, incurred during previous run in Sierra Cement, that

2) Creates weakness in knee when applying pressure to edge; this will vary depending on direction of ski, especially if a lateral ligament is also involved, but

3) Pain may take a while to develop, depending on swelling, location of damage; some ligaments don't hurt that much for a while,

3) And meanwhile, strain leads to perception that ski is resisting turning, even minute corrections while running straight, when in reality it's not getting sufficient pressure to turn

4) An extension of something very familiar to those of us with a bad knee; turning one way is much easier than the other, and running straight in heavy wet snow can be a bear

5) Which is also related to the well known phenomenon of hikers in a whiteout or without landmarks walking in a circle because of one leg dominance

 

Hey, why not? popcorn.gif

 

Falsification: No ligamentary damage, or to the wrong knee. 

 

Ancillary analogy: We now know that many fractures in older people do not occur because of a fall, they cause the fall.

 

 

post #49 of 57

My understanding was that the ski wouldn't move in a straightline or turn.

post #50 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

My understanding was that the ski wouldn't move in a straightline or turn.

 

That is correct.  It was definitely an equipment, not an operator, issue.  Either there is something wrong with the ski, or something affected the ski or the boot-binding relationship, that day.  Sadly, although Mammoth is open until Memorial Day, I was informed of an impending pay cut for next year ... so skiing is finished for this season.  We will find out in November because, other than a summer wax, he wants to wait and try them again before taking them to a shop.  Either way, we'll be packing an extra set of skis on the rack!

post #51 of 57
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

They didn't call them TNTs for nuthin'!

 

(Rockin the cork - is that the ORIGINAL arch adjustment widget eek.gif )

 

Hey!  Easy folks!  I LOVE my tecnicas!  First boot ever that fit right out of the box!

post #52 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustski View Post

 He can't make the ski go straight or turn right.  It will only turn left!  We ski down by him lifting the ski out of knee deep powder and forcing right turns.  

 

 

Epic, this is the first post. As I read it, the ski will only turn left. OP: Later on you agree with Epic, that the ski won't turn at all. So, ah, which is it? 

post #53 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

 

 

Epic, this is the first post. As I read it, the ski will only turn left. OP: Later on you agree with Epic, that the ski won't turn at all. So, ah, which is it? 

 

Right leg dominance   ?  52 posts of guesses, What more is there  ?  Could it have been a twin tip and he clicked in backwards ?  Another exciting possibility. 

post #54 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

 

 

Epic, this is the first post. As I read it, the ski will only turn left. OP: Later on you agree with Epic, that the ski won't turn at all. So, ah, which is it? 

 

I took that as can't go straight and because that ski won't move he can't turn either.

post #55 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustski View Post

 

 

Hey!  Easy folks!  I LOVE my tecnicas!  First boot ever that fit right out of the box!

 

But your tecnicas are not of the vintage that those tecnicas are, and plastics have changes a lot. 

 

 

post #56 of 57

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustski View Post
  He did place his skis in the snow in the parking lot, whereas we held ours upright. They rested base down in the parking lot snow and ours did not and then we went straight to the gondola.

This is your cause. Clean the bases and re-wax.

post #57 of 57
Thread Starter 

Just thought I'd update.  I cleaned the bases on the 999s and waxed the skis.  Hubby took them out for a test run on a WROD yesterday and everything worked fine.  Since it was a groomer day, he put them away for later and skied the new Magnum 8.1s I bought him this summer.   Note to self:  do not lay skis base down on the snow in a parking lot!

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