Buying beyond my ability: Bad idea?

There are skis that have a performance range from intermediate to low end expert. You are typically looking for a ski with a lot of forgiveness/large sweet spot that has a good mix of skills and a reasonable top end.

I think it is a great idea to buy skis that fit your growth goals, but I think you have to be careful to avoid skis that punish technique slips and always demand your A game.

Time for the 'demo!' comment

Look at reviews of higher performance skis with tags like a big sweet spot and high forgiveness scores.

I bought an 'intermediate' ski my first season and ended up with a fairly narrow performance range, unforgiving platform, and a knee injury. I bought a much higher end ski this season and have been able to push the limits for my ability without being punished for technique slips.

So, yes, I think you can buy beyond your ability while having a better platform for your current ability - to some extent that is the very nature of the 'flexible frontsider' category vs. pure carvers.

I didn't realize they were still making the Crossfire.  It's not on the USA site--maybe it's available in Canada? Are you sure it's a 2011-12?  It is (or was) an excellent groomer ski, but not so stiff that an intermediate couldn't handle it--it's not a racing ski. Skis have gotten a lot more versatile in the last few years--both in the range of skiers a given ski will work for and in the range of terrain and conditions.( Which makes it funny that every manufacturer offers more models every year.) You might be better off with something with some tip rocker and a bit wider, unless you're going to confine your skiing to groomers in the East. One lesson I've learned about buying skis is to not buy a ski juset because it's a good deal.  Another is to buy the model, not the make--pretty much every maker will have a ski that will work for every skier. And the third is to demo, if possible.  I'm an older skier too.

I think the crossfire is a 2010 ski; at least I can find reviews for the 2010 crossfire at realskiers. 

In any event, the ski was given a wider performance envelope including beginner carvers up to expert carvers (and old-school style experts too).  I don't think it would be too much ski for you.

I'll give you my opinion incase it helps you at all.  Preface, I would class myself intermediate, this is my first full season, went up 30 times so take my advice with a grain of salt ;)  I'm no pro ;)

 

At the start of this season I purchased a pair of demo 2009 crossfires.  As far as I know they made them for another year or two and made them a little wider, mine are 70mm I think under foot.  I got them before I could barely get down a green run.  I too was concerned was it too much ski for me as a total noob.  I don't think it really mattered much as I was skidding down the greens ;)  Near the start of the season I had my first private lesson, I told him I could barely get down a green, showed him what I could do and he said "Dude you're actually carving".  I had no idea ;)  Reason I am telling you this is I found it quite simple to start learning to carve on these skis.

 

Later in the season I demoed some of the newer K2 skis with tip rocker like the Rictor and Aftershock.  It felt easier to bend that ski and get a sharper turn and I definately felt I could "rip" it more.  Seeing its end of season and there are some great deals around, I would look for some later model K2s as all the K2 AMP skis come with tip rocker.  They felt "easier" to get around for an intermediate like you or myself.  Just some more info, my 2009 crossfires with demo bindings are quite heavy, don't know if thats the same with all K2's.

 

I don't think at all this would be beyond your ability but maybe consider the new K2's

If you want a ski that will handle deeper or cut up snow than you do want something wider and more rockered than the crossfire. It seems like every year or two the standard of what constitutes an "all-mountain" ski gets wider.  Every time I buy a new pair of skis they seem to carve better, turn easier, and float better than the last pair, and my legs feel 10 years younger.--kind of a no lose situation. Skiing magazine has a pretty good on line listing of skis--they don't test all of the skis they list but they test enough that you should be able to find a lot of reviewed skis to try. You can filter by intermediate and look for skis that rate high on forgiveness and maneuverability.  Another piece of advice-courtesy of Lito Tejada Flores--if you demo skis, unless a ski is clearly better than what you own there's no reason to buy it. 

Fully agree that investing in lessons and time on the snow beats spending money on new skis.  Have you ever demo'd before?  When I was more of an intermediate, I was surprised how much I could feel the difference between skis.  That was at a free demo day at a small local mountain in early season conditions.  Didn't buy anything until the late season sales began months later.  But it was helpful to know what was worth tracking and what I could ignore no matter how low the price.

 

Did you get your boots from a local boot fitter?

 

You will get a bigger performance improvement from investing in boots than skis.  A good fitting boot with proper forward flex is by far the most important element to your skiing.  BTW, do not buy skis based on what you read; wait for a demo day at your local hill and try everything you can until you find the "one"

I know several people who bought skis that turned out to be not what they really wanted, because the price looked good. You might really like the Crossfires, but you won't know unless you try them - and there's no way to demo them since they're out of production. If you want to demo, you'll have to try something new, and buying what you like will be more expensive. It's tempting to go for the deal   

 

The formula to determine whether your purchase is a deal is quit simple. Lets say you save $200:

 

If you ski 30 days a year and the skis last five years, that's 150 days on the snow, or $1.33 / day. By the time you add in clothing, gas, food, lift tickets, travel, hotel, airfare and all, you might save as much as 2% of your total costs. Maybe far less.

 

Or you can look at it another way -  you'll save less than 25 cents an hour actual skiing time.

 

Demo, then buy what you really like.

Without really discussing any particular model, here are some things to think about:

 

• Consider how much effort you are going to put into skiing better so you'll appreciate a better performing ski and where you want your skiing (skill) to go and by when
• By far, boots are the biggest improvement you can make to increased performance with regard to gear and are the biggest bang for the buck - go to a boot fitter (search this site)
• Buying great boots doesn't make them perfect.  They have to fit perfect and it takes a while to figure that out.  A good boot fitter can expedite that process, especially if the fitter does on snow analysis
• Boots, like skis can be "too much" (perfect fitting 150 flex race boots on a novice recreational skier can slow improvement down)
• You will enjoy skiing on skis you can over ski, more than skis that you can't ski.  Beginner skis are forgiving, expert skis aren't
• If you don't have the budget to constantly buy new gear (who does?), I would buy gear that is capable of being skied better than you ski.  Not a lot better, just a little better
• If you like groomers and want to learn to carve, get a short slalom race ski.  My God they're a blast and make learning to carve easy easier.
• The second biggest bang for the buck is investing in lessons.  Adult clinics are usually the most economical and you have the advantage of the same instructor week after week.
• 3rd is mileage.  Ski a lot and do drills each day.
• Keep skiing the skis you have until a reputable source watches you ski and says you are over skiing the ski.  A reputable source is someone familiar with movement analysis - instructor, race coach, or someone that's been a student of the sport for a long time.  All instructors/coaches are not created equal and movement analysis takes years to develop.
• Now that the season is over or close to it, start working out for next season. 

 

Some of the above I learned because it is the opposite of what I did

 

Have fun,

Ken

 

 

Sounds like good advice (blue added).  Be good to add to the Beginner Tip thread.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/65105/beginners-tip-bible-share-yours

 

I agree decent boots which help you not hinder you are a must.

 

I find that the biggest improvement for your level can also be the skis (likely you are well beyond what your current skis can provide hences some of the fits in crud) and are well onto the way of intermediate/advanced ski range.  The ski will perform like you expect, and your technique will clean up to match it.  I feel that there are too many levels of ski out there for the same application.

 

Race ski no, Expert ski maybe, Advance well worth it, Intermediate just a stop gap and will hinder long term progression. 

 

If you can demo some skis (or do a run or 2 on friends skis) on the slopes you ski most.  Gives you an idea what to look for and then go bit beyond it.

If you do find a steal (they are out there) on the high end skis, grab it and grow into it.  Sometimes its worth the risk.

 

I paid $99.00 for new in package 2010 GS FIS skis (legally).

 

Don't we make this hard

I agree with the above posts about boots.  Without boots that fit you well, you won't be able to tell whether the skis are a good match for your developing abilites.

 

That said, I was tempted to get a pair of Crossfires myself.  I think they're a great, fun frontside carver    Unless you're planning to mostly ski deep snow and cut up crud, they're good all-around-the-frontside skis, and would make a good hardpack ski to keep around when you do expand your quiver to powder skis.

 

But, boots first.

 

 

Does help to have been on enough different skis to be sure what length is likely to work well for a given ski type.  For instance, longer with rocker.

 

Well, you don't need a pair of $1000 boots.  You can do just fine with boots half or even a third of that.   I spent about $550 for my Full Tilt boots, got a little bootfitting done (usually complimentary when you buy a new pair) and I couldn't be happier with them.  I suspect that there are way more people here on Epic that are happy with their boots than those who are unhappy with their boots. 

 

People who buy $1000 boots are usually seeking a specific level of performance, often for racing, or to solve chronic fitting problems.  If they're racing, they're also buying a boot that is about 2 sizes too small for normal use; fitting issues are inherent.  But they love racing, so they need the tight fit for responsiveness.  

 

As far as a good fit with the boots you have, a qualified boot fitter could tell you if they're adequate for your needs. Maybe they are, maybe your skiing life would be much more rewarding with something else.  Sometimes a new liner will help, assuming the shell size is correct.  Fairly inexpensive footbeds (like Sole or Superfeet) can work wonders for your skiing.  Boot fitters are your best friend.

 

It doesn't have to be expensive, but maybe your feet (and your skiing experience) are worth a little more than $8. 

 

 

 

Tell you what.  If they fit OK now, they'll be better when you have a competent bootfitter do some tweaks for you.

 

I'm not trying to prove a point or badger or argue; I apoligize if I have.   I'm hope you keep skiing, keep getting better and enjoy it more along the way.  I sincerely believe this will be more the case with better fitting boots.

 

Now as far as skis,  it sound like the Crossfires are just the ticket for where you'll be skiing.  I'd have no hesitations about buying them. 

I'm going to say the same for boots, you may have tried (found something) you like in boots.  Start looking for new boots of that style size (do your research) and you can find the deals. 

 

Lange race boots again under $100, so far no fitting.  (sorry to the boot retailers out there).  Worst case spend the money with a good fitter, that is definitely worth the money don't penny pinch here, even if they charge you a bit more, the effort and good will on the fit is worth it.

 

Again like you said, its a budget thing.  If you know what your looking you can find the deals.  Spend the $$ wisely, and on some things, you are going to have spend them.  I rather be on good equipment skiing (bought cheap)  instead of  no equipment not skiing or even worse on crap equipment (bought cheap) skiing and regretting it.

 

.

 

 

When you do decide to demo try to pick a day when there a variety of conditions to try (or if you're expanding your quiver at least the conditions you're buying the skis for)--seems obvious but it can be frustrating to find the right day and then find that the skis you want to try are not available, or not in the size you want. Which is why a lot of us wind up buying skis without demoing.  Re: boots--if and when you decide to upgrade, do read about boot fitting so you can figure out if the fitter you use knows what they're doing.  I've bought as many wrong boots as wrong skis. Expecially read about shell fitting.  And remember you can make a too-tight boot looser and relieve sore spots, and you can make a stiff boot softer, but you can't make a boot smaller or stiffer. And remember that a boot liner packs out over about 5 days so a boot that feels great in the shop with the buckles close to as tight as they'll go will be too large in a few days of skiing. (My boots also get looser as the day goes on and as the season goes on--as fluid is squeezed out of the tissues of my feet and as the weather gets warmer and the plastic softens).

 

 

Just sticky this at the top of the Gear Discussion forum and shut the place down. 

 

 

Lessons, or just practice practice practice.  (Lessons are faster and less frustrating, but practice is cheaper.)

 

You don't need a lot of strength in ungroomed unless it's very bumpy or VERY dense.  Very dense crud ('cement') is just hard to ski no matter what.  Specialized off-piste skis help to some extent, but -- for me at least -- it's still not really 'fun'.

 

 

Keep in mind that the people who are happy with their boots are much less likely to post about it than people who are unhappy and need help.  To a large extent you're hearing a vocal minority that is over-represented online.

 

That said, ski boots are hard to fit right; I have custom footbeds and foamed liners and I'm STILL getting minor adjustments several times a season.  But I spend a LOT of time in my boots when I'm teaching, and I can't just take a break whenever I want, so even a small amount of discomfort gets really annoying.

 

 

I think have found the answer you looking for. If your not happy in your lesson let the ski school know. Its all about you not the insturctor. Save you money of the summer, find a good boot fitter in the late Fall and make sure the boots fit correctly. Make sure the skis are tuner properly. Keep them

sharp.

 

May be check out the Tuning forum and learn how to tune you own skis.

 

Remember, the better you get, the more fun this becomes.

 

Where do you ski at, may be one of us can tell you who to go to, as apposed to telling you, where to go...lol

Slipshod,

 

In most cases I would say listen to Ken, but. I am 53 and started skiing 8 seasons ago. Season 2, I did buy the best boot Tecnica made off the internet and horrors, it fit great after the liners packed in (maybe 10 days). Sounds like you may have easy feet like me and you can get away with minimal boot fitting, if any.  It is very important to do your research when buying off the internet to determine fit and characteristics of the merchandise before you buy.  I have never demoed a ski and have purchased more than I can remember.  Most of my skis are bought at seasons end or come off Gear Swap at TGR.  Again, I do a lot of research over there and via Google to get a really good feel for what I am buying before I pull the trigger.  I always buy when the price is very good and consider myself lucky to have owned so many fun skis that I can use for a season or two and then move on to the next latest and greatest for not a big hit after I sell the old ones. I do believe very strongly in taking the small group lessons (2-3 people) as you often end up getting a private 3 hour lesson for $100+tip, which at my mountain is a deal.  Not to sound like a ski snob, but don't buy the K2s, as they are made in China. There are lots of great skis made in the USA or Euroland for you to blow your hard earned $$$ on. 

O, and to your original question.  I always have bought skis that were marked advanced/expert. Just put them on your feet and make them your b!tch is my motto.