Crashed Into Much......?

David, sorry about your accident.  Yes, your friend was wrong.  But these things happen all of the time.  One of the biggest dangers is skiing side by side where your clobber each other crossing.

That doesn't excuse the accident.  And your friend shouldn't be hiding behind an "irregular" turn.  Would patrol have pulled his pass?  That's a difficult one to answer.  Best just to chalk it up to bad luck, although I do think your friend should take responsibility and think about how he skis in the future.

Did you visit the doctor to see if you have a concussion?

Mike

This sounds like a lack of peripheral vision aka goggle vision lead to a side-by-side crash, in which what little blame there actually is must be shared by all parties.  If he was behind you, such that he could see you but it was impossible for you to see him, then you would be mostly blameless i.e. the downhill skier has the right of way ..... unless he has severe Tourette's and is spastically unpredictable. 

"I was crashed into from behind once by a tree ..... totally sued it's @ss" 

You should see a Dr. just to be sure there are no hidden injuries. I had a friend hit me from behind hard last year and he said it was no big deal. . So he is NOT a ski friend anymore. I am friendly to him but do not ski with him and he has figured that out. I don't need friends like that. It will take a few weeks or so to mentally shake that collision off. Good luck.

In 30 years I've never been run into, so, no it's not a normal part of skiing. FWIW "assault" is too strong a word, as is "criminal'. Old guy experience here, hating the father will in the end hurt you far more than him. Hopefully you'll realise he didn't intend any harm and you'll be able to let it go.

Unless of course he really doesn't like you hanging out with his daughter???

I would suggest you avoid telling your (female, especially) friends to STFU if you want to keep them.

Sorry to hear about your crash. 

You should still see a doctor.

Sh!t happens skiing.

Don't let it be the focus of your trip out west or interfere with your friendship.  I'm sure deep inside you don't think he did it intentionally or was being careless.  It was an accident and made you mad.  It is totally normal to get mad.  Take a deep breath and move on.  You don't need to channel that anger at your friend or her dad.  They probably feel bad about it.  Finding who's at fault or dwelling on this will do nothing to help that friendship.  You should focus on making sure your head is OK.  Probably wouldn't hurt to work on making amends with your friend and her dad.  Don't let this define your trip.

You made a trip out west and instead of telling us about the highlights of the trip and all the great runs you made, you're telling us about the worse one.  Your focusing on the wrong thing (easy for me to say since I didn't get my bell rung).

The only way to prevent this is to sell your skis and give up a fun winter sport.

Now go see a doctor.

Ken

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidFox 

Good advice Ken. 

 

i think it would be easier for me to follow had they not been so non chalant about it and actually seemed apologetic, but I am moving on and did for the most part after that day.  The best they could muster though was that 'shit happens skiing' attitude as you said.  And apparently that since I wasnt hospitalized, that I should just let it go.  That all felt like a 2nd kick while I was down and made me wonder what you all thought about what happened.  

 

But overall, you are right. And I am very grateful for my trip, I just wanted some help in determining my role and response to all this as it is one of the main memories and definitely partly soured the next few days as I was made gun shy to some degree from then on and couldnt get the level of mental relaxation that the sport normally affords me.

 

David,

The parts I highlighted are hard to deal with.  The latter more so than anything.  Once something gets in your head, it's very hard to get it out.  I agree being nonchalant was poor form on their part.  We do live in a litigious society and people tend to want to find the person/reason at fault as hard they they try to prove they aren't at fault.  Sh!t does happen, even when people are trying to be good.

I spent the first part of this season subconsciously finding reasons not to race.  I got hurt in the gates last year and was enough for me to miss a bit of work.  It was my 3rd surgery in 4 years due to skiing and I know that work, and my wife, have had enough.  Though neither have said anything (well, my wife has ), I "feel" that one more time and at a minimum, I'll be asked to stop skiing.  I wasn't afraid of getting hurt.  I was afraid of loosing my job, and the needless stress that would put on my family.  I was holding back all season long and performed worse than my first season racing. 

When race season finally ended, it was like a huge weight was lifted off me.

You don't want that.  You shouldn't have to think while starting every run, "Is this the one?"  The best way to get over that is training.  It doesn't mean it isn't going to happen anymore that it means you won't get caught in a tornado.  Accept what you can control and move on.  You have to be vigilant but you also have to have fun.  I watched two expert high level skiers (racers), do almost exactly what you described.  Fortunately neither got hurt and they laughed about it.  Between them they have about 80 years experience and 50 years racing.  When I've asked one of my race buddies if he ever worried about someone crashing into him on a trail, he said "Ain't gonna happen.  I always ski faster than they do.  I only have to worry about not hitting them."  That is how he took control.

With stating the above, I'm not saying that skiing fast is the answer.  He's an incredible skier and a high level racer.  I'm just saying find a way to have some control before it happens subconsciously.

Ken

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidFox 

also jmaie...

 

i get that he didnt probably intend to do it, but hes been skiing for decades and knows better and afterwards had no sense of anything more than basically explaining why it happened etc instead of seeing it for what I did, i.e. a very serious incident, that hes lucky happened to someone he knows and that it should be a serious wake up call for him that hes skiing out of control, by definition.  

 

 

 

I agree 100%, and agree that experienced skiers should be held to a higher standard of personal responsibility.

Nonetheless, in the real world the percentage of people who will listen seriously to anything their kid's friends say is pretty low.  I would advise trying to talk to him once -- calmly, informationally rather than accusatively, alone, when you aren't skiing, when he is not in a hurry -- and then letting it go.

(I'm an older guy.  I'd like to think I would take my son's friends seriously, but maybe I'm fooling myself.)

A different thought -- if you have a concussion, the questions on the insurance forms will ask about the circumstances of the injury.  So it may get elevated by your insurance company, regardless of what you want.

The first time I got hit was by a little kids on a slight steeper bunny hill with a rope tow, he looked at me and said "Why aren't you watching where I'm going?"

A few weeks later, one of my students crashed at my feet after running over my skis (and that's why you buy teaching skis at the swap every year!).

What I couldn't figure out was in the first case, my ski school jacket was pretty darn close to neon orange and in the second case, if I hadn't been standing by the

telephone pole would my student had hit it instead?

As always, it's nuts out there,  I'm glad I've got a helmet!

Try not to take it personally, their "shit happens", non-response is lame and had to be addressed.

Shit may happen, but skiers must ski under control such that when even in an "irregular" turn, the control is enough to avoid a collision with the downhill skier.  

Experienced skiers especially need to keep enough control to slow/stop for whatever is in front.  To just dismiss a near death/injury as cavalierly as your friend and her father did shows a callous disregard to your well being, and a denial of the hazards with skiing. 

To just let them continue their delusion is to encourage another incident with maybe more dire results.

I'm in their camp.  A group of skiers having fun skiing together down the same slope. A couple bump into each other. Shit happens.

Be thankful you or him were not hurt worst. 

Over reacted? Crikey you were a model of cool. I reckon you under-reacted.

Downhill skier ALWAYS has right of way. It's the uphill skier's responsibility to avoid a collision.

Glad you didn't get hurt too bad. It goes without saying you're never skiing with him/her/them again I hope...

Disclaimer: IANAL, nor a doctor.  YMMV.

Agree with several posters above that you should probably get checked out medically if you were having headaches, etc. after the accident.  Sounds like you may have had a low-grade concussion.

Depends on the resort and the circumstances.  Usually someone has to do something egregiously stupid and/or dangerous to get their pass pulled, or have a pattern of repeat offenses.  It helps if ski patrol or someone 'official' saw the incident, or there are lots of witnesses standing around.

If you wanted to pursue this you probably should have called ski patrol on the spot, though understandably this probably wasn't what you were concerned about at the time.

It's very unlikely the authorities would pursue criminal charges in a case like this.  There was clearly no intent to injure, and you normally have to be REALLY REALLY reckless for it to rise to the level of being criminal.

Civil liability is a different question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L&AirC 

...

 

Sh!t happens skiing.

 

...I'm sure deep inside you don't think he did it intentionally or was being careless....

 

Shit does happen sometimes, but IMO hitting someone from behind (or while passing) on an open slope, barring mitigating factors, results from being careless.

Whether that carelessness rises to the level of legal liability (or even criminal recklessness) is another question.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidFox 

... my brother agrees with you and told me i shouldve reported him myself and come what may (i.e. one less friend etc)

Since you know the person who hit you, that's a whole different kind of mess.

"Shit happens".  "It might but someone has to pay."  yadda yadda yadda.

Decide how you want to spend your time.

Easiest way to put this behind you or at least start that journey, is to decide if it was a mistake or misconduct.  Then decide how you would want to be treated if you were the one that ran into someone else.

If it's a mistake, then talking to him to get past it is the right thing to do.  If it was misconduct, well, you've already received plenty advice on that.

What did the Doc say?

Unless he meant to hit you he was out of control. Make a list of people you don't want behind you when you're skiing and put them on it. Ski defensively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L&AirC 

"Shit happens".  "It might but someone has to pay."  yadda yadda yadda.

 

Decide how you want to spend your time.

 

Easiest way to put this behind you or at least start that journey, is to decide if it was a mistake or misconduct.  Then decide how you would want to be treated if you were the one that ran into someone else.

 

If it's a mistake, then talking to him to get past it is the right thing to do.

If the question is 'was he careless?' or 'did he make a mistake?', my answer given the information here would be yes.  You can try to split hairs over whether the mistake was merely inattention or conscious ignorance of the 'rules of the road', but I'm not sure it matters very much.  (I've also seen some people argue that this kind of accident should be considered an inherent risk of resort skiing, but that's a different discussion.)

Is he liable for any injuries -- which, fortunately, seem to be minor to nonexistent?  That's a question for a court of law.

Should you let it go and forgive him?  That's a more personal decision.

For your mental health and the sake of your friendship with his daughter it's probably best to do so.  But if he doesn't understand that he made a mistake, you might not want to ski in front of him anymore. 

Here's a question for you.

What is it you want?  If you can answer that then i think you are on your way to figuring things out.

Even in small claims court, (the stuff on people's court/judge judy)  The first thing they have always established is what is the Plaintiff suing the other person for.    

My friend relayed to me a similar story he encountered where his neighbor bought a purebreed dog for $1000, intending to breed it.  

But after getting genetic tests they found the dog not to be as promised. 

The breeder offered them $750 back.  But the neighbor refused that offer.

So my same question back to them is what did they want?  At the most drastic end, you return the dog get $1000 back, and maybe the cost for the tests. If you want to keep the dog, you shouldn't expect to somehow end up with extra money over the $1000 original price.  So somehow the current positions of the parties is somewhere between  the $750+dog offer and $1000 complete refund with no dog, which I thought was already pretty close. 

If they they want more than the full refund, it is logically ludicrus and judge judy wouldn't stand for it; so I was laughing how ridiculous that she was somehow squabbling over that last $250 and valuation of the dog probably due to emotions and just wanted to moan and complain about it.

So while your story isn't the same thing; just figuring out your position of what is being offered to you, and what is it you want; will go along ways in moving forward.

Shit happens (although I wouldn't be surprised if the guy was showing off by trying to blow past you too closely--I'm old--I know how old guys think) .  And when shit does happen--when you run someone down from behind-- there is only one intelligent thing to say--"I'm sorry." Judging by your friend's father's response he's a lost cause ( and it sounds like your friend might be too.) I've never had any luck convincing someone who thinks they're right that they're wrong--you're just wasting your breath.  The only rational action in this case is for you to avoid these people--not just skiing, but in general. People who act like that skiing act like that in all areas of life.  Life is too short to spend it with jerks. (Maybe that's why I ski alone a lot.)

This is why it's a good idea to ski faster than everyone else.

Overreaction to be angry about getting hit?  Nope.

Overreaction to liken it to a Criminal Assault?  Yep.