Kastle MX83: holy cow!

Not really a full review, as I only got to ski it for about 10 runs, but whoa!  Incredible ski, best frontside all-mountain ride I have yet tried.  Muscular, powerful, but forgiving: feels like some sort of off-road Subaru WRX rally car.  

Conditions: 2-6" of new, over crusty hardpack. length skied: 173cm. 2013 MX83 from Kastle.  Running length measures the equivalent of what a 175cm would be in the MX88, or 177cm in the MX78. 

Trees: skiing trees on these was a total thrill. I was arcing through the trees like they were slalom gates.  The metal-laminate MX83 had the beef to hook up when going through the blower snow on top: it was easy to load it up and power out of the turn, really using the hard snow underneath to arc and get energy from the ski.  Very responsive, not demanding at all for such a powerful ski.  Tail was really there for me, yet didn't punish me too much if I got back seat.  It was super easy to recover, skis were soft enough that I could just pull them back underneath me and get on top of them again. 

Soft bumps: Again, great ski.  The tip I could just pressure down into the trough, with that wind-blown snow in there. Skis would slow right down. No funny feelings when absorbing the bump.  Best bump ski I have tried in a long time.  

Groomers; mostly soft cut-up snow on the groomers, punching through to scraped out ice underneath. This thing is an ice-skate for an 83mm ski, and a powerhouse. It has the feel of a slalom ski, once you get it into the turn.  Must be the unique sidecut.  The ski doesn't feel excessively turny (unlike a slalom ski or ski with a huge tip) as it has an 18m radius.  It waits for the skier to make the move, releasing and tipping to initiate.  However, once the tip is engaged, it just sucked me right across the fall line, accelerating me through the belly of the turn. Whoo hoo! Release was with a flourish, lots of energy, and then down the fall line again.  In the chop, it was very, very stable.  Couldn't ask for more in a short 174cm ski.  

Off-piste crud: actually was pretty similar to the groomers.  Amazed at how well this thing absorbed snow snakes lurking underneath the very light snow on top.  Like the terrain undulations weren't even there: it just sucked up the terrain, and was incredibly smooth and easy to ski.  The sweet spot felt about 20% larger than on the other skis I was trying.  So easy to turn, provided you have decent technique and can release out of the old turn.  Smooth, easy to ski, yet very stable with class-leading horsepower.  I have yet to see this from another ski.  This might be the BMW M5 of skis. 

Speed limit: there is none, unless you find the length too short for deeper snow. I was skiing with bigger guys (all good skiers) on 100mm+ skis, and I was the one waiting for them at the bottom of the hill.  They had to back off quite a bit though due to the scratchy snow underneath, whereas I could power through that stuff on the more responsive ski; I was skiing faster in the softer crud, too, though. 

New (deeper) snow: OK here, not really it's forte though.  Got it into 10" of new (blower) snow that had collected on the leeward side of a knoll. Easy to ski, but a little short at 174cm to really be skiing fast.  Wants to stay fall line more than I would like, and due to the length, can't handle feet that are too active, pressuring the tips manage speed.  Fun to ski, but the only condition where I would opt for something else.

Forgiveness: super easy to ski, for what it is.  More forgiving than 75% of the similar skis I have tried this year, and higher performing than any of them.  

Comparisons with other skis tried over those 2 days:

Kastle BMX98: the MX83 was a bit smoother in the crud, quicker and more powerful in the trees, bumps, and on hard snow. Much more thrilling ride, but no more demanding.  BMX98 cut out easier, I had to feather it more.  Better float in the uncut snow

Blizzard Bonafide: MX83 was easier to rally trees and crud in, and far superior in bumps and on hard snow. Bonafide didn't lead me to be as confident; it really wasn't grippy enough to really know it was going to hold when I wanted to come around in a hurry.  Better float in new snow. 

Blizzard Magnum 8.0ti: MX83 was much less demanding, much higher performance.  8.0ti didn't have any energy coming out of the tail; tip was vague and I had to counter more to get it to hook up.  Working a lot harder on that ski.  Also a smaller sweet spot.  Skied really stiff in comparison.  

Head REV85: much less power than the MX83, a touch more demanding, but not too much.  Tip was a bit hookier, grip on hard snow wasn't comparable.  Again, fun ski, not really in the same class. 

Overall, the MX83 was such a versatile, superb ski.  Truly a narrower component of a 2-ski quiver.  Perfect for those days when you are skiing bumps, trees, and groomers, but not really much in the way of new snow.  Obviously, if you are hucking, you want more length than this too.  Much more responsive than a wider ski in all of the conditions I skied it in.  If this were a mountain bike, it would be a shorter travel 29er full suspension.  A Cannondale Scalpel 29er, Fisher Superfly 100, Niner JET9.  Capable of all-day riding, tackling any trail short of freeride stunts, but sporty, quick, and playful.  

In fact, my whole notion of possibly "getting by" on a wider ~95mm ski for skied-out conditions has gone out the window after skiing this ski. I have been on plenty of good ~80mm skis before, but this sets a new standard for both fun and versatility.  The MX83 is so much more fun in skied out off-piste conditions, I want to own it for those days, and have something wider for new snow (thinking ~100mm for moderate new snow days, and ~115mm for deep days).  If I were going to hit a 2-ski quiver, it would probably be the MX83 and something 110mm wide.  After skiing this, something like the BMX98 or Bonafide isn't even close to cutting it on days like this.  Even the Head Rock n' Roll and FX94, both of which are more responsive on hard snow than either of those 2, just aren't as much fun. 

Trying to think of who wouldn't like this: it is forgiving, so it can handle a skier less than expert.  Probably not the best choice for someone who gets stuck it the backseat (substantial tail) although it isn't bad for a high-performance ski.  For people who are looking to just pivot, and not engage the edge, it also may not work very well, as it could be pretty grabby.   Someone looking for a deep-snow ski; obviously this isn't the best choice.  For pure ice or more groomer-only focused, look at the 78 or an RX12.  Someone who is cheap or has no money won't like the price.   With that said, I don't know of a better all-mountain, skied out and firm snow ski around.  Haven't found one yet, at least.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

with so many great 80 something skis about to hit the snow next season, my guess is that you will really need to see which one feels better; seem like a case of all are good; just which do you like best.  I would like to ski this and the Blizz 8.5 back to back.  

I was skiing both last week (skied the 8.5 alot the past few weeks before the MX83 came along).  As a comparison, they were about the same in bumps and crud, but edge grip, stability,  power, and forgiveness all were far in the MX83's favor.  As it costs $1450 w/binding (instead of $950) it should be better!  And it was, no question.  The 8.5 is a good ski; the MX83 defines the category, at least for what I want in a narrower all-mountain ski. My main beef with the 8.5 is that you lose too much hardpack grip without an engaged tip and tail.  Works fine in softer snow (where you can get it to bite) but for hard snow, groomers at speed, it was well below where an 85mm waisted ski should perform.  The only way I could really get it to hook up well was to get totally countered.  Felt like one of those racers back on 210's in the 80's.  Otherwise, it was vague when laying it over, and getting bounced way too much.  Some skis (like the REV 85) have almost imperceptible rocker/early rise. The 8.5 has quite a bit, and for better or worse, feels much different on hardpack.  The again, I thought the Bushwacker and Bonafide both were pretty lousy on firm snow too, for the same reason, and plenty of people like them.  I really like the Rock n' Roll on hard snow: the tip is barely rockered, but it gets out of the snow well in junk snow, yet stays contacted to the snow when it isn't being bent up as much (like on a groomer).  Makes for a more stable, reactive ski.   I really like The One on hardpack: I can engage the whole ski, something I can't do on the other 2.   I think  the key is that if you are on firm snow, not skiing at speeds where you need the whole running length, or are pivoting more than arcing, it will be fine, and might even be better than a traditionally cambered ski. If you need the whole running length and are really trying to work the feet fore and aft, you might find losing 25cm of running surface not to your liking.  On the much lower rise REV 85, the tip is essentially always engaged, so it is more stable in rough snow, tracking more consistently.  That is why, after skiing the Magnum 8.5 a bunch, I am thinking it is much more of a narrow off-piste ski (where it excels) rather than a groomer ski.  I would buy it for skiing bumps and crud.  Not for groomers though.  I would be interested to hear some more opinions.

My dream ski for this category: ski the groomers close to the performance of a carver, hold on hard snow as well as most carvers, have energy, be forgiving for bumps, release easily in crud, have a forgiving tail for trees and steeps, plenty of stability, and some pop out of the turn.  The only ski I have tried that gets this done, so far, is the MX83.  Outland 87 was close, but it was kind of a boring groomer ski. Great everywhere else.  Magnum 8.5 good off-piste everywhere, though falls short on groomers.  REV 85 good all-around , but lacking energy (really damp).  Elan Amphibio 88xti: pretty close actually, probably #2 in this group.  Volkl Kendo: pretty stiff (same with RTM 84). Nordica Steadfast: awesome groomer ski, too stiff for light guys in bumps.  I haven't skied the Enduro, and there are others I am missing, for sure, but off the top of my head, the MX83 gets the nod, so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Proof 

Thanks for the write up Dawg. Another Kastle MX series winner!

 

From the perspective of a consumer, there is so much overlap in the Kastle line, it just becomes so confusing. Plus, how does a shop decide what to carry and it's a lot of inventory $$$ to tie up in one company. It competes with the directly with the LX 82 and FX 84, so, will it grow the business or just take sales away from another Kastle product. I know the LX82 made me smile during a few demo runs at the Gathering in soft new snow and bumps.

 

Too much fine tuning, glad I have all summer to think about it.

The MX83 has the most juice of the 3, and is the best ski.  LX82 is great for more of a cruising style (not looking for an energetic, powerful ski so much), and the FX84 doesn't feel as powerful or sporty either, and isn't much of a carver.  Honestly, after skiing the MX83, I wouldn't even consider the other 2 for a good skier. There is nothing they do that the MX83 doesn't do at least as well, and the 83 has the top-end down better, as well as groomer power and grip. Perhaps light, less aggressive skiers (and women) should look at the 82.  Not sure where the FX84 fits in: too narrow for a backside ski, doesn't have the MX83's range. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

well written Scott. thanks very much. You clearly delineated the differences in the skis, well-done. I am one of those Bone fans and found it to very quite good on hard pack (not that a 98 ski will be as good as a narrow ice-centric ski) so it would be interesting to ski the 8.5 back2back. For my purposes, I want something for harder groomer days; keep in mind I have the mx78 that i have to believe is still going to be better than the 83 on really hard days (and lets be honest, I will most likely not ski those days) so I still wonder if the 8.5 is going to be as good or even better for softer groomers (read: not groomed fresh) with the occasional stashes or tracked soft trees?  Need to demo.  Price aside, I am looking for that ski that fills the gap between the 78 and the bone. Maybe thinking of selling the 78's....  I just like wider ski's, its just a preference. 

Yeah, you should probably demo, once your knee is healed up.  I can only speak for me and how I ski.   I found the 8.5ti to be worst on soft, cut up groomers.  Didn't track well at all.  Didn't really find that it did anything that the MX83 didn't do at least as well. I think the MX83 has a much better flex pattern as well. I can really bend up the tip and tail if I want.  The 8.5ti is stiff: tip and tail are pre-bent, but they don't go further than that. Probably why I found them to ski really well in crud and bumps, not so hot on groomers when compared to similar skis.  The MX83 allows me to bend the tip and tail out of the way when I want, but isn't permanently fixed off the snow.

The MX78, in comparison, is even better on groomers (it is a stiffer ski, stiffer sidewalls, close to a race ski).  MX83 felt more forgiving in softer snow and bumps, more forgiving tail, a bit more dynamic.  MX78 (in 176) wants to charge ahead more.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by qcanoe 

Groaaan. Did you have to be quite so convincing? Really? You should go into sales. Oh. Wait. You ARE in sales.

 

So the question is, if I were, hypothetically speaking, to sell both my Sultan 85s and my Supersonics ( and then chip in a boatload of cash ) to buy a pair of these, how much am I going to miss the Blizzards in the race course and generally on Formica conditions? (Beer leaguer, but often enough in the top 10 out of 75 or so racers.) Consider that I would probably be going up from a 167 to a 173, since the 163 - if I can believe the size range Phil posted above - would be too short, I think.

 

[Never mind. I just decided this can't work for me, because I spend too much time hitting rocks and roots with my Dynastars, and I wouldn't want to be doing that with a pair of skis where the tune matters hugely for ice nights. But posting anyway because I'm abstractly interested to hear your answer.]

Well, assuming you had a pair of MX83's and weren't worried about rocks: if there is a 80mm+ ski that can comfortably run a beer league course, it is the MX83.  I would prefer an MX78 or RX12, though. The Supersonic is going to hold better and have a more powerful release. I would get an MX83 and sell the Sultan.  Keep the Supersonic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBachelor 

Hey Dawg, how do you compare it to the MX88's, pluses and minuses?

 

Mike

Hey Mike,

As Phil said, length is probably more key than width in this ski.  the MX83 feels sportier than the MX88 (173 vs. 178).  I think part of that is the bit of added sidecut, and part is just being closer to the tip and tail.  The MX88 in 178cm is ridiculously stable, feels more like a narrow "big mountain" ski, and quite a bit like a GS board.  The shorter MX83 has more of a slalom/GS hybrid feel, close in stability, but doesn't let loose quite as much. I would ski the MX88 in the longer length for high speed crud, bigger turns at speed, GS arcs, new snow.  The MX83 in the shorter length having the edge in bumps, tighter trees, and as a carver and technical ski. a\

The cool thing about the MX83 is that, at least for out here, I believe this ski can replace a narrower hardpack carver, and still be a very versatile ski for probably 1/2 of my skiing days. I really need to have a narrower ski in my quiver: I can only get up to the hill on Tuesday/Wednesday and on random lunch breaks, and these aren't always the best snow days. This season especially, we had nothing but boilerplate snow for about 6 weeks.  As it was all I had to ski, I was very glad to have a narrower carver.  As far as improving as a skier, those 6 weeks did more for my skiing than I get out of most complete seasons.  I had to really ski precisely and work on staying active and dynamic (for grip on hard snow), but if I hadn't been in possession of a good narrower technical ski, I probably wouldn't have even been on the snow.