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Cochise vs. PB&J

post #1 of 4
Thread Starter 

 

I'm 5'11", ~145lbs (I know I need to eat), looking at a 182cm PB&J or 185cm Cochise. I'd be using them for inbounds corn/slush, the day or two after a storm, or days with <6" of snow. I ski at Mammoth, so a lot of open bowls where there might be moguls at the top and unconsolidated crud in the aprons.
 
I love the Lhasa Pows (the ideal BC ski for me), but since they're so nice and light with carbon, I've found they're a bit reactive for my tastes inbounds. Probably being so light has a lot to do with this--I get bounced around a lot compared to when I'm on Stockli SS Pros. I just don't have the strength and technique to constantly pressure the tips as is required.
 
The other somewhat similar ski I have is an old 186cm Stockli SS Pro (91mm underfoot). I love their dampness and how stable they feel when straightlining a runout, but they're a lot of work for me to ski. Total bottom feeders due to the stiffness and the tails don't like to release and slide at all (something I really like about the Lhasas/Praxis Pows), which makes the Stocklis a ton of work in the bumps.
 
As for the Cochise vs the PB&J, I know they're very different skis. I'm not too concerned about their relative powder performance--I know both will be good for what I want. I've also read both are fine on groomers, so that's not a big deal either.
 
Mainly, I'm looking for something that can hold an edge on a steep, firm entrance, "slarve" in bumps, crud and windbuff without hookiness, and then be damp enough to feel comfortable straightlining a bumpy runout. Lastly, if you have any input on the relative forgiveness of each ski to lazy skiing/getting backseat temporarily, that would be great. As much as I'd like to say I ski super aggressively every run, I know that isn't my style. Basically, I want a ski with a pretty high speed limit, but also not a speed floor.
 
I know the Cochise has metal which should make it damp, but is it a bit too wide for good edge hold, and is it too heavy to do jump turns in steep, tight places?
 
On the other hand, I've heard great things about the PB&J's dampness and straightlining ability despite being a mini-Bibby shape, but do you think it's still going to be considerably less damp than the Cochise? Also, will the shorter running length really make a noticeable difference at speed, or am I small enough that it shouldn't matter?
 
post #2 of 4
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Mainly, I'm looking for something that can hold an edge on a steep, firm entrance, "slarve" in bumps, crud and windbuff without hookiness, and then be damp enough to feel comfortable straightlining a bumpy runout. Lastly, if you have any input on the relative forgiveness of each ski to lazy skiing/getting backseat temporarily, that would be great. As much as I'd like to say I ski super aggressively every run, I know that isn't my style. Basically, I want a ski with a pretty high speed limit, but also not a speed floor.
 
I know the Cochise has metal which should make it damp, but is it a bit too wide for good edge hold, and is it too heavy to do jump turns in steep, tight places?
 
 


I can comment on the Cochise but not the PB&J. The Cochise does not like backseat skiing and while it won't kill you, it will let you know that is not where you should be with a short fast ride in whatever direction you are pointed. Edge hold is amazing. Drive them as hard as you want. They slarve very nicely if they are retuned (specific tune details are on another thread by Wasatchback in Epic Forums somewhere) but they will be a challenge for you to really rip bumps at your weight on the 185. They are heavy suckers and would not be much fun at all for jump turns. That's not to say they don't turn quickly in tight, steep chutes. The early rise lets you just twist your lower legs and feet 175 degrees without having to really jump them around. It took me a while to figure this out but it works well.

Yesterday I posted some end of season comment .

http://www.epicski.com/t/101637/2012-blizzard-cochise/210

post # 225

The Cochise is probably not a perfect match for you but it's hard to say without a demo. Depending on your skill level, your weight on the 185 might be an issue but you never know. My wife is only 105 lbs and loves her 175 Cochises but she is a 99th percentile skier


 

 

post #3 of 4
Thread Starter 

Skill level is pretty good. No race/technical background but I can ski everything inbounds at Mammoth with some speed. I think I remember Tony Crocker telling me I'd probably be in the top 5-10% of Epicski members. I'm also only 21, so I'm getting better and stronger.

 

When you say I won't be able to rip bumps, does that mean they'll be a ton of work, or that I'll just have to take a slower, slarvey approach to them. If it's the slarvey approach, that's fine since I don't search out bumps and generally ski them to get to the nice, smooth runout below.

post #4 of 4

Soft bumps are very doable because you can slarve, skid over and around them. No energy required and steeper is better. Pure hard icy bumps might be more of a chore because you would want to weight and unweight dynamically to make the grippy heavish skis pivot which takes a lot energy (for me at least). The weight and width just means you won't be pounding down a zipper line in a blur of kneecaps. I was skiing Mt Baker in mid January with 15" blower (unreal for Baker) on top of ice. The bumps on Honkers were interesting because they were soft and fluffy on top but boilerplate on the faces. The Cochise was perfect there because I could easily pivot turn on the fluffy topside and use the great edges to brake on the hard faces. In summary they are fine on regular western bumps if you need to get somewhere but not the first choice for bump fans. 

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