EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Après-Ski › Complete equipment customization... how far can you go?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Complete equipment customization... how far can you go?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

What is the limit for customizing equipment.  Assuming you had on had a bootfitter, level III instructor, trainer, etc, all of whom were expert skiers themselves... What could be done?  And how would one even begin to optimize all these variables (of which there are tens of thousands of total combinations)???

 

  • Having a right and left ski, with different mounting points?
  • Having one binding custom mounted at a certain duck or pigeon-toed angle to accommodate minute anatomical differences?
  • Changing base bevel by a few tenths on one edge to address anatomically-created alignment trouble?
  • Slightly different ski dimensions for each ski?
  • Slightly different ski length for each ski?
  • Different ramp/boot work for each boot?
  • Individual boot sole cants?

 

 

I'm willing to bet that less than 1% of people are perfectly symmetrical.  Perhaps subtle equipment customization shortcomings put ceilings on potential.

 

Perhaps some experts have learned to compensate with the equipment they have, and have unlocked potential.  Perhaps some of the elite ski athletes out there are better suited for the limits of current customization technology (among many other things, of course)???

post #2 of 11

I once skied an old Head iM70 in 170 on one foot and an Atomic SL9 in ??  155 or so on the other all afternoon and the lifities never noticed...do you suppose that was due to their mental state (I'm sure I heard a call for a safety meeting at one point) or perhaps becuase both skis were essentialy in the yellow spectrum?

 

Oh---- I switched skis after I forgot which was the right one (as opposed to the incorrect one) after 3 or 4 runs.  This pair was an Atomic SL9 in 155 ?? and a head iM70 in 170.  (note the subtle difference from the first pair---you had to look close)

 

whee

 

carryon, up or sideways....your choice.

post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 

Oh, and I almost forgot, custom sidecut on (each?) ski... with the proper ovular/elliptical depth, focus point, and correctly-placed vertex to make the most of each person's anatomy.

post #4 of 11

OK serious (well more so than the last that is) response this time,,,,there are already skis as you describe.  saw some a few years ago with different sidecuts on each side -- tele specific.  Think of the tele motion and you will see why. 

 

 

post #5 of 11

I think you are right that only say 1% of people are perfectly symetrical....but the average level of symetricality (is that even a word?) I think you will find is substantially higher then you seem to imply.

 

Further I think if you consider that no 2 turns are alike due to variable in snow (including the infinite variances in little bumps, ridges, splotches, etc etc etc) , pitch, speed, amount of turning...

 

So unless the variablility in the skier was greater then the variablity in the snow/terrain then it wouldnt make sense.

 

Skiing is an open skill sport...if it wasnt...then your idea might work.

post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 

Ski customization is in the dark ages... imagine if all pro golfers had one or two clubheads to choose for for each club, and the only difference was their shaft flex, and grip (grip being akin to boot fit, but is only half the issue).

post #7 of 11

But golf equipment is --- per club -- a lot less expensive to mass produce.  I actually know folks that have Custom built golf clubs...I'm one and they are vastly superior to off the rack...in many cases simply because the club sole is flat against the turf (a simple lie adjustment) and none mortgaged the hosue to buy the set...although depending on your price point some sets were wildly expensive (in my view).

 

  Are you willing to pay 2, 3 or 4X as much for what is essentially a custom build for a ski as a the normal average reatil level 5 skier 5 day a year skier?  Probably not.  At the very top of the food chain are the wc guys and gals who get the pick f the litter so to speak.  The resemblance of their skis to retail is night and day (once they get passed thru a winterstigen that is)

 

We had a custom ski maker here awhile back that was an engineering student with access to a press and materials to custom make you a pair. 

 

On the other hand the custom built for your swing and physique, handicap and number of rounds retail golfer is alos a step well above the demographic that the retail golf equipment guys are marketing to.

post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 

I think there are some side-dominant performance deficits that are beyond technique, beyond current bootfitting, and 100% residing in unique anatomical differences.

 

You'd be surprised how many subtle anatomical variations there are... on the surface things like leg length/trunk length, etc.

 

But then deeper are things like spine curvature and individual vertebral anomolies (just ask an Osteopathic Physician to "screen," "scan" and "segmentally define" your axial skeleton), and perhaps more lean muscle mass in your dominant arm, leg (and hip) (and imagine what that does to turning).  These all affect the way we move.

 

In my opinion, the future for ski equipment customization is bright, for all levels of skiers.

post #9 of 11

I am actually quite surprised that there aren't asymmetrical skis dominating the market. It seems that optimal inside edge design would be different from optimal outside edge design. Ski to snow contact angles differ significantly from inside edge to outside edge. Perhaps high level racers use different tunes on various edges but I have never been offered such a tune.

 

Boot canting does offer a common customization. The idea of binding twisting in the mount position is really interesting. I always seem to run in a bit of a snowplow - would binding placement make me run straighter? It would be fun to try a side to side adjustable mounting system.

 

Waterskis have had asymmetrical designs for years - so the basic premise of VS is valid. But I have not been able to tell differences between the R&L skis even when switched. And I have been able to have fun finishing the day on one damaged ski - maybe snow skiers are too adaptable!

 

Eric

post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

I am actually quite surprised that there aren't asymmetrical skis dominating the market. It seems that optimal inside edge design would be different from optimal outside edge design. Ski to snow contact angles differ significantly from inside edge to outside edge. Perhaps high level racers use different tunes on various edges but I have never been offered such a tune.

 

Boot canting does offer a common customization. The idea of binding twisting in the mount position is really interesting. I always seem to run in a bit of a snowplow - would binding placement make me run straighter? It would be fun to try a side to side adjustable mounting system.

 

Waterskis have had asymmetrical designs for years - so the basic premise of VS is valid. But I have not been able to tell differences between the R&L skis even when switched. And I have been able to have fun finishing the day on one damaged ski - maybe snow skiers are too adaptable!

 

Eric



ScottyBob has been producing an asymmetrical design for years.  He seems to have a following, but the design never caught on in a big way. http://www.scottybob.com/skiworks/  .  Perhaps someone who has skied the design can tell us what he/she thinks.

 

Getting back to the OP, we all like--or would like if cost were no object-- a certain amount of customization to perform better in a given sport, feel good about ourselves and to set ourselves apart.  Some manufacturers make ski boot customization easy (e.g., working with two different size feet), binding mounting positions can easily be changed using demo bindings, canting can come from boot soles or strips under the bindings, etc.  But to what degree does the optimization matter?  At some point the benefit from each additional level of customization adds very little.  For example, moving my bindings forward 0.25 cm may not be optimal, but I'll simply unconsciously change my body position when skiing to compensate.    It doesn't really matter. 

 

Golf is another matter, because the idea is to swing a club over 100mph and hit a little ball in the center of a club face at the optimal angle that will produce an optimal trajectory of the ball.  A guy with short or long arms has no trouble pole planting, but in golf those factors might require a lot of compensation in the swing. 

 

I figure there are enough people who want customization for performance and vanity reasons, and if it can be produced someone will buy it even if it doesn't improve their skiing.  Getting back to golf, look at all the people who own $400 drivers and $200 putters and haven't seen a drop in handicap!  Just produce it and a customer will buy it.

 

 

 

post #11 of 11

I customize every ski article I have since I find "shortcomings" to many ski articles ( and this is top level material )!

 

Here is a few "customs";

 

-wider velcro at bottom straps on ski pants

-polar fleece 3" inner collars on all ski jackets

-elastic straps on outside of all jacket collars just below chin

-sew in on boot liner an extra power strap just for liner tongue

-sew in vents on inside thigh on spring skiing pants

-sew in a powder strap pocket at bottom of all my ski pants . Straps tuck INTO pocket 

-sew in wires  for my Ipod from inner pocket to back collar

-sew in a 3" elastic belt on my spring pants ( too low cut and snow gets into back )

-modify placement of third buckle position

-sew in ear pods INTO my ski tuque

-heat mold my spring skiing glasses

 

and more!

 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Après-Ski
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Après-Ski › Complete equipment customization... how far can you go?