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Where in the foot I should put my weight on ?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

I used to put the weight at point the front of heel and end of arches, but recently I went to a mogul camp was told to put it at BOF, is this due to different discipline requirement ? The turn seems to become faster.

 

thx

post #2 of 16

I am supposing that the coaches saw something in your skiing that prompted them to offer that advice. As you stated, it does help you pressure the tip and forebody more. Beyond that, it's a blanket statement in a world of highly variable terrain and dynamic stance adjustments. So keep that in mind. It reminds me of the race coaches mantra of "carve everywhere". It's an objective but don't turn it into dogma.

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

"highly variable terrain and dynamic stance adjustments", could you expand on this ? so it is not like in Alpine skiing we balance on the front of heel, while mogul we balance on the BOF, really like to learn more.

post #4 of 16

When it comes to skiing, every balancing situation is moment to moment. Especially in moguls where the terrain demands more than one stance option. So to take any advice too literally would be unwise. Sure you don't want to be in the back seat consistently but there are times that you have to go there. Strongly flexing to absorb the next mogul would take you exactly there. Even if you break at the waist trying to keep your weight forward as you flex. You simply cannot keep your weight on the BOF all the time. So take that advice as what it is, an overall focus meant to keep you out of a consistently aft stance.

post #5 of 16

For the readers at at home, can we assume that BOF = ball of foot (where the toes join with the rest of the foot or the pad between the toes and the arch)?

SC-ball-of-the-foot-pic1-150x150.jpeg

 

Ideal skiing has the center point of pressure on the foot shifting forward and backward through each turn.

 

Instructors often ask for more than what they want, knowing that if students try for what they are asked for they will only get part way there. For example, your coach may have wanted you to get you centered over the middle of the foot. If you were trying for a point forward of that and only got halfway, you'd be right where your coach wanted you to be.

 

On the other hand, in the bumps it is important to aggressively drive the ski tips down to maintain contact with the snow on the back sides of the moguls. At that point, having the point of pressure forward of center would be helpful. It may be that your coach was asking for that movement at that point of the turn knowing that the rest would sort itself out automatically.

post #6 of 16

Nice graphic TR! A follow up to what you said is to mention the task of getting from a deeply flexed stance (retraction transition), to the extended stance (driving the skis down into the trough). In the following sequence we see three flexed stances and three extended ones. Interestingly enough, Jerry's stance (relative to the incidental slope angle) varies but his ankles do not appear to open very much. At least compared to how much his knees and hips articulate.

 

 

900x600px-LL-f0cc77ee_Selected20Images20from20Ultimate20Skiingberg-moduls-01-final.jpg

I would like to offer the following idea, keeping our balance (and weight) over the BOF while using the knees and hips so much would be quite difficult. Allowing it to naturally shift back and forth across the bottom of the foot (as the legs move through their entire ROM) seems to be a more reasonable objective.

So in a conceptual way, the advice to maintain balance over the BOF is valid as long as we understand it as a theoretical ideal. It helps us understand that after brief excursions out of that stance, we should seek to return there briefly. In other words we don't stay in any one stance very long, especially while skiing moguls.

post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 

there are some article about balance on "tibial axis", e.g. in this thread from Vail snopro, http://www.epicski.com/t/67788/ball-of-foot-center-of-running-length , talk about balance at front of heel and end of arches,  so that is what I have been trying to do, but after this mogul camp, I find if I "TRY" to balance on BOF, my turn are quicker and more control on the bump. so just like to understand more technical aspect of these two balance point and if there is a universal rule of where we should be balance on ( or maybe it is terrain dependent).

 

 

thx

post #8 of 16

Ric was writing specifically about binding mounting points and offered his opinion about the dogmatic belief in levering forward to keep your balance point over the BOF. If the mounting point is slightly aft, that balance point would coincide with the BOF. If the mounting point is slightly forward, the balance point would not coincide with the BOF. (It would be aft of that point) Equal pressure across the entire bottom of the foot and the entire edge of the ski is what he is discussing. From an equipment perspective this makes sense as a good starting point.

 

The coaches at the mogul camp are suggesting a stance where you stay forward and allow your body to move with the skis, instead of lag behind them. I suspect that's based on trying to eliminate a consistently aft stance more than suggesting your weight and balance should never leave that part of your feet. I added the photo montage to show how the joints in the legs need to work together to produce balance in a variety of different stances. I went on to describe how balance and weight shift naturally as the legs flex and extend. Why? To show examples of how our balance point moves as we move. It doesn't stay in one place unless you do. Hope that helps. Ski well RBC.

JASP 

post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBC View Post
, I find if I "TRY" to balance on BOF, my turn are quicker and more control on the bump. so just like to understand more technical aspect of these two balance point and if there is a universal rule of where we should be balance on ( or maybe it is terrain dependent).

 


If you're comparing the behind the arch balance point to any point more forward than that then you're going to have three factors working to make quicker, more controlled turns:

1) you'll be able to keep the skis on the snow more

2) you'll be able to pressure the tips more

3) you'll move the pivot point from the ski tips toward the center of the skis

 

Homer Simpson has a much simpler view of this: "D'oh!"

 

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post


If you're comparing the behind the arch balance point to any point more forward than that then you're going to have three factors working to make quicker, more controlled turns:

1) you'll be able to keep the skis on the snow more

2) you'll be able to pressure the tips more

3) you'll move the pivot point from the ski tips toward the center of the skis

 

Homer Simpson has a much simpler view of this: "D'oh!"

 


Ric's writing seems to advocate balance on tibial axis - more edging less skidding, that is why I asked is this terrain specific ?

 

 

post #11 of 16

Weight slightly back seat ==> ski faster, tails locked into carve.  Good for winning Chinese DH.

Weight slightly forward  ===> ski tips bend more, tails come around faster for quicker turns.  Good for skiing moguls and tighter trees.

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Weight slightly back seat ==> ski faster, tails locked into carve.  Good for winning Chinese DH.

Weight slightly forward  ===> ski tips bend more, tails come around faster for quicker turns.  Good for skiing moguls and tighter trees.


Thanks, this seems to make sense, I have been told to get forward, but was never a point of reference, but if someone told me I need to put my weight on heel, arches, or BOF then that I could understand and feel it.

 

 

post #13 of 16

Different things work for different people.  That's why lessons with a good instructor pay off; they can see what effect thier instructions are having and change it up if it doesn't work.  For example, putting your weight on the balls of your feet, just like pressing the tips, might just lead you to wind up further back as the snow you're putting your weight on obeys Isac and pushes back. 

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBC View Post


Ric's writing seems to advocate balance on tibial axis - more edging less skidding, that is why I asked is this terrain specific ?

 

 



The tibia is over the arch of the foot. That advice is not terrain specific.

 

Try this exercise at home. Stand in bare feet on a hard surface. Try moving your hips so that you feel the center of balance on your feet in 3 different positions:

1) on the heel side of the arch

2) center of the arch

3) on the ball of the foot

 

Hold in each position for a minute. Note which positions are stable and more or less tiring to maintain.

 

I find that position 1 (balanced along the fibia) is stable and not tiring. I find that position 2 (balanced along the tibia) is also stable and not tiring. I find that position 3 is slightly less stable and slightly more tiring. This is because my weight is not stacked on my skeletal system in this position. In moguls there is a cost to this position, but there are also benefits as you have discovered.

 

There are different benefits and costs for these different positions that are dependent on gear, position in the turn, terrain, conditions and intent. "Centered balance" is a gross over simplification. Balance over the arch of the foot or along the tibial axis may be a little more specific and thus more helpful, but does not completely cover the topic. An entire book could be written on this topic, but in my opinion would be extremely boring because most of it would be obvious to most readers. Finding the little tidbits of useful information would be quote tedious. Similarly, it is difficult for us to convey to you exactly the specific information you are looking for.

post #15 of 16

IMHO it's a lot more about shin/calf pressure than foot.

 

 

It's far better to have your weight on your heels and your shins pressed into the front of the boots, rather than your weight on your BOF and calfs pressed into the back of the boot.

 

The answer? at least my answer from an nonprofessional hack, the ankle should be relaxed. The weight should be evenly distributed over the foot. Center balanced on the foot, using the shin to control  forward pressure, allowing the flex of the boot to do the work.

 

 

 

 

 

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 

TR and others, thanks for the reply, I got my answer and this confirm my observation, hopefully other intermediate skier find this info useful.

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