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post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Having confiscated MELLOBOY'S post about off-season stuff w/baseball chatter, thought i'd submit that if y'all wanna talk some ball, put it here.
post #2 of 57
Thread Starter 
well, phil, one thing for sure, NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY can EVER touch Vince Scully. not even close. if they say otherwise, they've never heard him. i have listened to the man all my life and that he remains as fresh, as poetic, as astute and awake as he is, is remarkable.

when, on those summer days i had a beer in my hand and wanted to hear a game announced by someone who also had a beer in HIS hand, i'd turn on WGN for the Harry show. Bless his heart. But that's different. Harry would now and then lose track of the inning, the teams, or the fact that he was on the air. still, that's okay. but i feel lucky to have heard the game as i did, with Vinny in my ear.

(and as he's gotten older and as the athletes have gotten worse to listen to - the gripes about making only 10-mill while joe blow's getting 11.5, Vinnie's gotten a nice little edge to him, too, and now and then will drop, just a little, that veil of political correctness, and call it as it is.)

barry who?
post #3 of 57
Sure, Phil, people will care; ESPN is already starting to follow Bonds' ABs, interrupting other games to put them on, comparing stats to McGwire, the Babe, etc. Interesting, too, since Bonds is more like Maris versus McGwrire being more like Mantle, in terms of likeability goes. 61* (the film) did some to rehabilitate the raw deal Maris got; I doubt Bonds could be so lucky.

Paul/Pauly -- yes, I mean O'Neill (one of the few players older than myself; probably his last year or pretty close to it). Ryan, I did not mean to say Pedro is lousy but people who spout the "best" ever, etc. are very ignorant of potential comparisons, on a "best year" basis or "best career" basis. I had someone post career pitching stats for The Babe (Sox mlb site) and, though in that era he wasn't too far under the league's pitching, his stats were very comparable to Pedro's (and, of course, Babe had to hit, pitched longer and played offdays, too). Pitch Pedro-like and hit like himself: Wow! (What the heck did the Sox get for him??? Good move--NOT.)

Yuki -- you a lucky guy!

xxL
post #4 of 57
Thread Starter 
remember a dude, name of lamarr hoyt, won 20-something games for the chisox one year. POOF. gone.
thing about baseball and comparisons, of course, besides personal opinions and subjectivity, is that the game DOES change era to era. the game has changed dramatically in the past 5-7 years. the players are far superior athletes today, incredibly bigger, faster and stronger, and the results are evident.
(watch a game from as recently as the early-80's; the players look like adolescents, by and large, compared to guys today who live in the weightroom and take supplements (to the detriment, or not, of their future health), etc.

i really can't say who's better or worse - it's becoming too much like the apples and oranges comparison - you can really only compare players to others of their era and draw your own conclusions.

we'll know more about where pedro stacks up in a few years, i think. right now, he's hands-down the best and the players agree. steve carlton strung together a few dominant years, too.

then there's nolan ryan, blowing guys away near his mid-40's. as far as players being a dominant force year after year after year, he's the man.



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[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 06, 2001).]</FONT>
post #5 of 57
One of the best things about baseball is trying to compare players across eras. How many times have you and your friends argued the Pedro vs. Koufax vs. Grove vs. Gibson...etc..?? You can argue the Babe had to hit too, but Pedro has to face DH's instead of pitchers every ninth batter. As far as more rest, etc.. this isn't the pitcher's fault so much as the way the game is played now. They can't help what era they play in. I think the best way to compare pitchers is to measure them against their peers - i.e Pedro's ERA vs. league average. If you look at that you see just how unbelievable this guy is. Some decent run support and he'd never lose. Time will tell if he is going to be one of the great ones, but I'd say his recent three or four years stands up against any run a pitcher has ever had.

Did anyone see the Kid homer in the 18th last night??
post #6 of 57
As far as I'm concerned, Nolan IS da man. I understand that at 38, Roger Clemens (#5 K king) would have to strike out about 200 hitters for the next ELEVEN years to catch his total. Let's wait and see how far up that list Pedro gets. That's just unbelievable and it goes to show that if you don't looks at the history of the game, you cannot appreciate it fully, hence my point about baseball fans being historians-in-training (or history buffs, etc.)

I'm in rally mode: when to the computer, the NYY scored, so I had to do it again.

xxL
post #7 of 57
Posada........ Grand Slam
post #8 of 57
Thread Starter 
According to a report in today's Los Angeles Times...

"Boston Red Sox executives said they will sell the team to the highest bidder even if the new owner wants to move out of Fenway Park.
Justin Morreale, a lawyer for the Yawkey Trust, which owns a 53% controlling interest in the Red Sox, said Wednesday he expects the club to fetch the highest price in baseball history."
*******************

Apparently, per the story, there is huge interest and the Red Sox have received "two to three times as many offers as any other team in modern baseball history."

"All final bids must be in cash and must be accompanied by a completed major league baseball ownership application. On the application, the bidder must say he has no intention of moving the team out of New England."
post #9 of 57
I went Monday Night and Last night and watched the M's sweep Texas.
14 Games winning Streak.
After 58 Games the M's have the 2nd best record in history (46-12), only trailing the 1912 Giants (47-11).
Ichiro Leads the AL in hits -96
Boone Leads the AL in RBI's -65
(that 2hr/7 rbi night on monday was SWEEET!!)
Ichiro Leads AL in Steals -20
Sele Best AL record 8-0
Moyer 2nd 8-1
Sasaki Leads AL in Saves -24

The list goes on. It is just a wild feeling, the M's are unconcious. It makes sitting though all those games in the Kingdom worthwhile now.

I guess what I am getting at is what the buzz is about the M's outside of Seattle. They are on pace to set the win record for a season.

Here is a team that loses Randy Johnson, improves.
Loses Griffey Jr., Improves.
Loses A-Rod, Improves.

Lou Pinella is Da Man!!!

Ok, How much attention are you paying to the Mariners?????

Oh yea, Nolan Ryan was a great Strike out pitcher, too bad his overall win/loss record didn't match his K prowess.
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[This message has been edited by Argus (edited June 07, 2001).]</FONT>
post #10 of 57
Thread Starter 
Boone is freakin' unconscious right now. Didn't do this much in the NL, not even close. Makes ya wonder if pitchers have not read reports and are just trying to throw the heater by him. Not a good idea.

yes, Nolan's lack of control while with hapless Angel teams in the 70's didn't help the W/L%. But when he was on, lights out, go home. I remember having a seat behind home plate at what was then called The Big-A, in Anaheim, and watching him just mow through the batting order. The velocity was enough to wilt your will. Actually, kinda scary. Like J.R. Richard when he was on, but turned up a couple notches. This is when he was throwing 100-plus for nine, stronger each successive inning.
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[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 07, 2001).]</FONT>
post #11 of 57
Argus, I keep thinking I am dreaming. What a ride. Younger hitters should be studying Edgar, John, and Ichiro. I'm going Sat. nite.
post #12 of 57
Lou Piniella was a great NYY player, too. (Fight that RF sun; win that WS.) heh heh heh...

xxL
post #13 of 57
Thread Starter 
...yes he was, one of my favorites. liked him when he began in kc, too. gutsy, hard-nosed, in your face (uh, another cliche, please) kinda player. #9, right?

lisakaz.
re the '86 mets, i've heard of some publication recently out, or coming out, about that team and some of their...um, notorious...um, activities. you know anything about this.

(i recall a player i won't name talking about baseball in the 80's and about guys having coke in their pockets. during games.)
post #14 of 57
Ryan,

Piniella wore #14 as a Yankee player (#9 was later retired as Maris' #, but I think Graig Nettles wore it when he was Piniella's teammate).

All sorts of tales about the '86 Mets abound, but at the time I certainly didn't know of much and the people I knew who had covered the Mets at the time weren't onto anything about it. As Strawberry was kinda "out there" at the time, I'm sure there's fire behind the smoke.

xxL
post #15 of 57
Boone is a great story. He has been in the league for years and has been that .225-.250 25 HR hitter. He worked hard in the off season and it shows. His average is way up and he has become such a clutch hitter for the M's. On the defensive end Carlos Gullien has done an exceptional job at filling the vacancy left by one of the leagues best SS who left for a big pay check (hell i'ld probably take the money too, be honest here).

And talk about a bull pen. Rhodes, Nelly, FRANKLIN!!!! Best middle relieving corps in the bigs, or at least it would be hard to dispute that.

A-Rod was miss quoted, his nightmare was that he was in a Rangers uniform.......
post #16 of 57
Thread Starter 
LISAKAZ,

yes, duh. musta been thinkin' about roger. thanks for the el-correcto.

ARGUS, LUCKY, other Seattleites...

last huge start i remember was the '84 tigers, under sparky. jack morris, lou w., allen trammel, kirk gibson, willie hernandez. then they crushed the padres in the world series. i've only seen one M's game this year, on TV in april, so can't say much about them. but it's hard to argue with THAT record. tryin' to recall teams w/big leads that have completely folded. (i'm sure you folks remember the angels collapse that left you playing the yanks in the playoffs. god, that was awful for halo fans. but not a big surprise.)
maybe boone has gotten that hitch out of his swing that used to leave him open to whiffing or breaking his bat on high hard stuff.
post #17 of 57
ryan, maybe he has been watching Edgar and John. Seems like there is a new hero every game. Ichiro has been incredible, offense and defense.
post #18 of 57
Thread Starter 
LUCKY,

not bad examples to watch. olerud is just effortless; such a smooth, unhurried, tic-free swing. and clutch. (the bomb off rivera last year?) and edgar, though he got it going relatively late, is still one of the best in the game. consummate pros. isn't olerud from "up there"? washington or washington state?

inter-league play this weekend. yanks and braves. i think maddux matches up against mussina sunday night. (televised, i believe.)

watchin' the grand prix of canada, eh?
i'm saying - here goes - that if mika's car finishes the race, he finishes first in it. high speed track. basically a couple long straights interrupted by a chicane here and rhere. david REALLY needs to show up. i'm hoping the BMW's do, too, to keep the ferraris back. the williams team should do well on such a circuit. butcha just never know. hell, i'd like to see jacques show up.

have a good'n.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by ryan (edited June 08, 2001).]</FONT>
post #19 of 57
This is not a joke...just got my SAM update...Les Otten (founder of American Ski Corp)is getting in line to bid for the Boston Red Sox! After George Gillette's (Booth Creek) aquistion of the Montreal Canadiens is nothing sacred!?!
post #20 of 57
Thread Starter 
hmmm. biggest billfold takes the bosox (from beantown)?
post #21 of 57
Thread Starter 
As a Red Sox fan, I can only say, in regard to last night's Mets/Yanks game at Shea, in which Mike Piazza went BIG to win it after a beautiful Yankee self-inflicted choke wound, I like.

Sox STILL two up after taking two of three from some team from Atlanta.

Do I hear Mount Steinbrenner about to blow?
post #22 of 57
As an O's fan, all I have to say is GO SOX!!

Sure, I'd rather it be the O's, but as long as someone beats the Yanks, I'll be a little happier. I would find it amazing if the Yanks don't win it all this year, since they should be a better team than last year, and they were pretty good last year.
post #23 of 57
My son is 13. When he was younger he just wasn't interested in baseball, but all-of-a-sudden he's really into it! So, we play catch every evening when I get home from work. I really look forward to it as I drive home! Does anyone else here really enjoy 'just playing catch'?

By the way, we watched, "Field of Dreams," last night (Fathers' Day). I cried at the part where Kevin Costner plays catch with his Dad. (I always do. My Dad passed away back in '78.) My son really liked the movie, but of course didn't see anything in it to cry about. But now I know that some day he will!
post #24 of 57
I'm still seeing red from last night. I have no idea why Mo wasn't usable. Would've been an easy win; guess Joe felt the need to save him (and Stanton) but the announcers only said this in reference to Stanton. Cannot imagine, given these liabilities, why the hook on Lilly or Choate. I assumed Mo would enter to pitch to Piazza at the very least.

Forget Mt Steinbrenner. I'm feeling pretty almighty and powerful in that regard.

xxL

------------------
Dante non ha mai immaginato questo cerchio dell'inferno!
post #25 of 57
JohnH - when I was in school one of my roommates was a die hard Orioles fan - it was brutal when the Sox played the O's, but we always agreed on one thing - it doesn't really matter who wins as long as the Yankees lose.

Looks like the Yankees pen is going to get some help - espn.com reports that they are all but done with a deal to get Urbina from the mighty Expos.
post #26 of 57
Lisakaz:

I think that the Torre strategy is to put what little he has to the test and under pressure during the mid-season..... before it counts in a play off situation. You may dominate all summer, but come late September you just need to be in contention with a healthy club.
post #27 of 57
The end of an era....

Last night, Cal Ripken announced that this would be his last season.

I think everyone saw it coming. It's definitely time for him to retire. He had a great 21 years with the O's. Three cheers for number 8.

I have the feeling that he won't leave the game, or the O's alltogether. He'll probably end up in some coaching, mgt or front office position. He's only 41, so I can't see a guy with that kind of work ethic and love for baseball just slumming around or doing some other kind of work. Heck, maybe he'll end up as a baseball play-by-play announcer or ESPN commentator.
post #28 of 57
I just bought tickets to the last O's series at the Stadium. All but the last game (hard to get decent seats at this pt for Sunday afternoon). So I'll see the last Ripkin series, if not the last AB.

xxL
post #29 of 57
What a class act Cal Ripkin is. It was a breath of fresh air seeing old footage of when Ripkin broke the "first iron man's" record of consecutive games. This was after arriving home after the Tigers got trounced by the Yanks last night by a 10 run margin. Clemments is that good ! Jeter @285 batting avg, and just Ok in the RBI dept., I don't think is worth his salary, but Roger is !

So to the 21st Century "Iron Man" congrats on a great career. He should be an easy inductee to Cooperstown in 2007. A no brainer for the sports writers.This one they should be able to get right,.... write !
post #30 of 57
Four Mariners starting in the all star game!
John Olerud, Edgar martinez, Bret Boone and Ichiro. And they all deserve it.
Go mariners.
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