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Innate Ability? does it exist? Super talented kid

post #1 of 200
3/19/12 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 

 

Okay so this is off topic but I have to share this with you guys.  This is one of my gymnasts, she is a very small and many of the things she does at her size defy what is considered possible and are a PRIME example of innate ability.   

A thread some time back discussed innate ability and how some people do not believe in it.   I would consider this proof that innate ability does exist, as I have never seen anyone do what this child does at her size, ever....  Enjoy. :) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wA6Y3kG_jw

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post #2 of 200
3/19/12 at 7:33pm

I've seen it in a lot of sports - Volleyball, basketball skiing, gymnastics,.........

Sadly, some times(emphasis on some times)  a person with innate ability pisses it away and doesn't appreciate it, while some who have to work for it excel because, well......they have to work for it.

 

 

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post #3 of 200
3/19/12 at 7:45pm

Damn, how big (small) is she? 

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post #4 of 200
3/19/12 at 7:48pm

Whats even more interesting to me is....what about that innate ability you might have but dont know about...like maybe I am a natural at pole vault, gold medal built in the genes type...but dont know, because I never tried pole vault.

 

I know this guy who has innate ability as a skier, but didnt know until he started skiing at 21! Doh!

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post #5 of 200
3/19/12 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Whats even more interesting to me is....what about that innate ability you might have but dont know about...like maybe I am a natural at pole vault, gold medal built in the genes type...but dont know, because I never tried pole vault.

 



I know, I always wonder about this. Well, not pole vault, I'm 100% sure I would suck at pole vault, but there must be random people out there everywhere who are untapped talent. (Especially girls, but thankfully not so much as in the past.) I love hockey ... but I never have played. It's one of those things that I just feel like I get, physically, though. It mixes all my sports into one thing. 

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post #6 of 200
3/19/12 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Whats even more interesting to me is....what about that innate ability you might have but dont know about...like maybe I am a natural at pole vault, gold medal built in the genes type...but dont know, because I never tried pole vault.

 

I know this guy who has innate ability as a skier, but didnt know until he started skiing at 21! Doh!


Ive wondered about this as well. Focusing on this as it applies to sports, i think there are thousands and thousands of instances of this especially in smaller sports like javelin, curling, squash, etc. I actually think ski racing (in USA) qualifies; no disrespect to the usst, but i think if skiing was as popular as baseball or soccer (things most kids try at some point) there would be a bunch more people in the mix.
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post #7 of 200
3/19/12 at 9:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Damn, how big (small) is she? 



 :)    I will put it this way, we have 5 and 6 year olds who are taller.    I am 5-8 and you can see her standing next to me when she lands her bar routine, except she is standing up on an 8 inch mat and I am not.    The beginning of the video I am actually sitting on my feet/knees at Vault.     I started working with her 4 years ago, so she has gotten bigger! :)  

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post #8 of 200
3/19/12 at 9:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Whats even more interesting to me is....what about that innate ability you might have but dont know about...like maybe I am a natural at pole vault, gold medal built in the genes type...but dont know, because I never tried pole vault.

 

I know this guy who has innate ability as a skier, but didnt know until he started skiing at 21! Doh!

Excellent point,   kind of like watching sailing in the summer olympics, or curling in the winter olympics... I think I can do that!    Perhaps there are some pro golfers out there who have never played the game.   Seriously, what if Tiger never played, would he be good at something else? (probably be a more honest husband......)    But really makes you wonder as a person and a parent.   
What if Shaun White was a skier?  would he be a pro or just an average Joe? 

 

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post #9 of 200
3/19/12 at 9:45pm

P, if you've ever met an Olympic dingy sailor, you know right away they are indeed athletes and much more so than most all of us at the ski hill. You wouldn't want to meet an angry Finn sailor in a dark alley after you've taken off, unwittingly of course, with his girlfriend or wife. These guys are the middle line backers of the sailing world. Tough, smart, and stronger than hell. But yeah, give me a few beers and I'm sure I could podium in curling. smile.gif

 

 

The trick is finding the sport that matches one's physiology and mentality early enough on that you can get enough hours/frequency/coaching as necessary to reach the top or at least be an exceeding talented weekend warrior.

 

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post #10 of 200
3/19/12 at 9:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

P, if you've ever met an Olympic dingy sailor, you know right away they are indeed athletes and much more so than most all of us at the ski hill. You wouldn't want to meet an angry Finn sailor in a dark alley after you've taken off, unwittingly of course, with his girlfriend or wife. These guys are the middle line backers of the sailing world. Tough, smart, and stronger than hell. But yeah, give me a few beers and I'm sure I could podium in curling. smile.gif

 

 

The trick is finding the sport that matches one's physiology and mentality early enough on that you can get enough hours/frequency/coaching as necessary to reach the top or at least be an exceeding talented weekend warrior.

 

just something about being called a dingy sailor, lol   beer and curling it is! 
 

 

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post #11 of 200
3/19/12 at 9:53pm

I would choose to coach a kid with drive any day over coaching a kid with innate ability. How bad do they want it is what really counts.

 

Eric

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post #12 of 200
3/19/12 at 9:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

I would choose to coach a kid with drive any day over coaching a kid with innate ability. How bad do they want it is what really counts.

 

Eric



I will vouch for you.......You have an innate ability to find skis in deep snow!

 

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post #13 of 200
3/19/12 at 10:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

I would choose to coach a kid with drive any day over coaching a kid with innate ability. How bad do they want it is what really counts.

 

Eric


Thats a tough one and really depends on the sport.   In other words, some elite sports take elite talent and drive,  drive with no talent won't cut it.  But i know where you are coming from.   I have a few kids on team who just piss away talent with lazy work ethic.   And a few kids that work super hard but don't have the same talent,  the sad thing is the kids who are lazy usually end up beating everyone  in the end when it really counts.    But they could be so much better!    The girl in the video, has talent and drive.  

 

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post #14 of 200
3/20/12 at 4:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post



I know, I always wonder about this. Well, not pole vault, I'm 100% sure I would suck at pole vault, but there must be random people out there everywhere who are untapped talent. (Especially girls, but thankfully not so much as in the past.) I love hockey ... but I never have played. It's one of those things that I just feel like I get, physically, though. It mixes all my sports into one thing. 


My favorite story about random people finding their innate ability:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334741597350028.html

 

My favorite (or perhaps most depressing) passage:

 

Quote:

For the next four months, Ms. Stevens contemplated buying a bike, finally settling on a low-end Cannondale with an extra “granny” gear to help beginners push themselves uphill.

After a few rides, Ms. Stevens realized she wasn’t going to need the granny gear. On a spring bike ride in 2008, she says, a couple of male friends who were bike racers timed her up a hill climb in New Jersey that rises about a mile and a half from the Hudson River to the top of a bluff. A strong male cyclist can do this in just over six minutes. Without any serious training, Ms. Stevens clocked it somewhere in the high fives

 

 

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post #15 of 200
3/20/12 at 6:23am

The genetic code dictates that some individuals have kinky hair, darker or lighter skin, different bone structures, you name the characteristic and you'll find a genetic trait that makes us all different, or alike.

 

Circa 1992-1993ish:

 

Although I haven't seen them this season, the Green Berets have been coming to JH  for Winter training/R & R for years.  One of the coolest things I've ever witnessed was a bunch of soldiers dropping into Corbet's.  Most of these guys had never skied before- ever- they were on rental gear.  The ski schooler was doling on about Corbet's when one non army guy just rolled past and dropped right in.  So this Army Guy looked around for a second and drops into, and lands Corbet's!  No Shit, just sticks it.  Over the course of about thirty seconds, without hesitating, the entire group of eight or so guys dropped right in and every one landed it.  It was the standard gnarly Corbet's entrance.

 

Literally, some of these guys had never skied before- ever.  They were just strong and adventurous.  Innate ability gentlemen?  I saw it right ↑.  Amazing it was.  Flat out, some people are smarter, better, faster, stronger than others.  And the age at which these traits come to fruition also differs.  Nothing is more fun to see than an older new skier really excel at skiing- discovering their innate abilities.

 

 

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post #16 of 200
3/20/12 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post

The genetic code dictates that some individuals have kinky hair, darker or lighter skin, different bone structures, you name it and you'll find a genetic trait that makes us all different, or alike.

 

Circa 1992-1993ish:

 

Although I haven't seen them this season, the Green Berets have been coming to JH  for Winter training/R & R for years.  One of the coolest things I've ever witnessed was a bunch of soldiers dropping into Corbet's.  Most of these guys had never skied before- ever- they were on rental gear.  The ski schooler was doling on about Corbet's when one non army guy just rolled past and dropped right in.  So this Army Guy looked around for a second and drops into, and lands Corbet's!  No Shit, just sticks it.  Over the course of about thirty seconds, without hesitating, the entire group of eight or so guys dropped right in and every one landed it.  It was the standard gnarly Corbet's entrance.

 

Literally, some of these guys had never skied before- ever.  They were just strong and adventurous.  Innate ability gentlemen?  I saw it right ↑.  Amazing it was.

 

 

I would have loved to see that!


 

 

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post #17 of 200
3/20/12 at 9:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post

The genetic code dictates that some individuals have kinky hair, darker or lighter skin, different bone structures, you name the characteristic and you'll find a genetic trait that makes us all different, or alike.

 

Circa 1992-1993ish:

 

Although I haven't seen them this season, the Green Berets have been coming to JH  for Winter training/R & R for years.  One of the coolest things I've ever witnessed was a bunch of soldiers dropping into Corbet's.  Most of these guys had never skied before- ever- they were on rental gear.  The ski schooler was doling on about Corbet's when one non army guy just rolled past and dropped right in.  So this Army Guy looked around for a second and drops into, and lands Corbet's!  No Shit, just sticks it.  Over the course of about thirty seconds, without hesitating, the entire group of eight or so guys dropped right in and every one landed it.  It was the standard gnarly Corbet's entrance.

 

Literally, some of these guys had never skied before- ever.  They were just strong and adventurous.  Innate ability gentlemen?  I saw it right ↑.  Amazing it was.  Flat out, some people are smarter, better, faster, stronger than others.  And the age at which these traits come to fruition also differs.  Nothing is more fun to see than an older new skier really excel at skiing- discovering their innate abilities.

 

 


I see that in the gym, some kids take years to learn a big skill, doing months of progressions, body shaping, specific strength,  working different aspects of the skill they will someday attempt.  Then every so often a child just throws the skill without ever doing any training.      Bottom line is,  some people just get it,  they have the ability to just watch and apply all to there own attempt at a skill, while others can watch forever but will never achieve unless taken through all the steps.     I think innate ability is not only sport specific but skill specific, some people are naturals at bumps, some are naturals in the trees, some are naturals hucking cliffs, some are naturals in the powder, some are naturals in the park etc....  

I have always been at home in the trees,on steeps and dropping cliffs, but have to actually work and think when doing bumps (not to mention they just hurt these days) and I don't go in the park much.    Contrary I have a buddy who shines in the bumps (probably could have competed, except he doesn't like jumping), but absolutely will NOT huck a cliff and ski's away from anything super steep , (he does like trees though).     What are you guys good at? 

 

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post #18 of 200
3/20/12 at 9:47am

I have the innate ability to go PERFECTLY  limp on landing just about any air higher than a credit card laid flat.

 

That of course high-lites my innate showman's ship when hucking cliffs, dropping into steep chutes, or even getting a bit out of sync with a large bump.

 

Some of us have it...and some of us don't.  The redemption is MY innate ability to laugh at myself!  The true gift!

 

As far as the "gifted" youth,  I  wish  adults would stop trying to live out their failed pasts through the lives of the these children.

 

There is NO reason to give up childhood when you are young!  After the youth has gone, we spend the rest of our years trying to get it back!

 

What a puzzle,  What a gift!

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post #19 of 200
3/20/12 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdiddy View Post

 What are you guys good at? 

 



Spelling. And reading. No one knows exactly when I started reading, because I taught myself and then read to myself for a while (they think) before I read aloud and shocked my parents, when I was 4. I can't figure out how to parlay it into being an Olympian, though. You ever wonder, some people have these innate abilities that match up with sports that are already established, but some of us need to invent the sports we would be best at. I could ski and spell -- like the biathlon, but downhill instead of XC and spelling instead of shooting. (The BEE-athlon!) I doubt it will catch on, though.

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post #20 of 200
3/20/12 at 10:45am
Thread Starter 


huh?  so all coaches are trying to live out their failed pasts through children????    Meaning every ski coach, soccer coach, football coach has a failed past?   What are you talking about, this isn't a beauty contest or something vain like that, this child loves the sport.  The team parents are not allowed to watch workouts (to protect the kids from overbearing parents and to protect the parents from themselves).    So I really don't know where you are going with this, but the last time I checked SPORTS is something that all kids should be involved in, and that requires coaches.... 

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgrandy View Post

I have the innate ability to go PERFECTLY  limp on landing just about any air higher than a credit card laid flat.

 

That of course high-lites my innate showman's ship when hucking cliffs, dropping into steep chutes, or even getting a bit out of sync with a large bump.

 

Some of us have it...and some of us don't.  The redemption is MY innate ability to laugh at myself!  The true gift!

 

As far as the "gifted" youth,  I  wish  adults would stop trying to live out their failed pasts through the lives of the these children.

 

There is NO reason to give up childhood when you are young!  After the youth has gone, we spend the rest of our years trying to get it back!

 

What a puzzle,  What a gift!



 

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post #21 of 200
3/20/12 at 10:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post



Spelling. And reading. No one knows exactly when I started reading, because I taught myself and then read to myself for a while (they think) before I read aloud and shocked my parents, when I was 4. I can't figure out how to parlay it into being an Olympian, though. You ever wonder, some people have these innate abilities that match up with sports that are already established, but some of us need to invent the sports we would be best at. I could ski and spell -- like the biathlon, but downhill instead of XC and spelling instead of shooting. (The BEE-athlon!) I doubt it will catch on, though.

If you add beer drinking in there somewhere you may get some fans! 
 

 

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post #22 of 200
3/20/12 at 11:12am

I'm not going anywhere with this except my observations.

Your observations parallel.  [The team parents are not allowed to watch workouts (to protect the kids from overbearing parents and to protect the parents from themselves).]  If someone were so unfortunate to also be placed in the influence of an overbearing "coach", (they exhist!)  How tragic.

 

I find that kids do quite well when left to their own regarding sports.  Even to the point of devising "games" that suit the situation.  All with the vigor of youth!

 

Is it the "adult" expectation that sets  realistic goals for children?  Sorry that, if so.

 

And yes,  I have "coached" youth sports.  Even to be accused of not being competitive enough.;)Oh well.

 

My own kids are fond of the mountain winters, Go figure!  What more can I ask?

 

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post #23 of 200
3/20/12 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgrandy View Post

I'm not going anywhere with this except my observations.

Your observations parallel.  [The team parents are not allowed to watch workouts (to protect the kids from overbearing parents and to protect the parents from themselves).]  If someone were so unfortunate to also be placed in the influence of an overbearing "coach", (they exhist!)  How tragic.

 

I find that kids do quite well when left to their own regarding sports.  Even to the point of devising "games" that suit the situation.  All with the vigor of youth!

 

Is it the "adult" expectation that sets  realistic goals for children?  Sorry that, if so.

 

And yes,  I have "coached" youth sports.  Even to be accused of not being competitive enough.;)Oh well.

 

My own kids are fond of the mountain winters, Go figure!  What more can I ask?

 

The best coaches in the world are usually a bit overbearing so, still not sure about that.      There are plenty of easy going, fun loving, everything you do is great, coaches out there, and the kids they produce generally suck.  Sorry just the truth.   There are also coaches out there who go over the top and end up with no kids because they all leave (probably really good when they leave too).    As a coach you have to show a kid how much you care before they care how much you know.  But this is a personality trait that cannot be taught.     That being said, I can assure you that pro sports would not be as advanced and entertaining as it is today, had all the coaches in the world been fun loving and "not being competitive enough, " .    There comes a point in coaching when the  "oh well" or "leaving kids kids on their own" stance means you are not exactly fulfilling your obligation to these young athletes, or worse yet not teaching them the basic fundamentals at an early age that they need to succeed.   In other words, bad coaching early on can and does result in limiting a child and his/her ability to progress.    Anyways,  I am not trying to offend, just my observation.  
 

 

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post #24 of 200
3/20/12 at 1:21pm

My 3 kids all got the same coaching and time on the slopes and their skill levels are all over the map.  One of them just had a knack for skiing.  In addition to be very coordinated, he's great at imitating movement.  If you tell him what to do, in one ear and out the other.  If he follows you down the slope, whole different story.  His sisters are the opposite, ie they learn through verbal instruction.

 

Yes, innate ability exists.

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post #25 of 200
3/20/12 at 1:25pm
Many times experts at something had obsessive parents who pushed them into something at a young age, like lindsey vonn's dad, or Earl Woods. This is particularly true in the lucrative sports where early and ubiquitous exposure isnt common.

But innate ability is real; that 12-year old opera singer isnt a prodigy because she took voice lessons; she simply has protiens in her larynx which confer pleasant noises for our ears
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post #26 of 200
3/20/12 at 1:26pm
And there are the two chess master sisters who hate chess because their dad forced it on them growing up
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post #27 of 200
3/20/12 at 1:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

Many times experts at something had obsessive parents who pushed them into something at a young age, like lindsey vonn's dad, or Earl Woods. This is particularly true in the lucrative sports where early and ubiquitous exposure isnt common.
But innate ability is real; that 12-year old opera singer isnt a prodigy because she took voice lessons; she simply has protiens in her larynx which confer pleasant noises for our ears


Yes, dealing with obsessive parents (we call them helicopter parents because they hover over the kids and are always blowing down on them) is a big part of any sport.  A parent who feels compelled to watch every practice and coach their kid on the way home is nothing short of destructive.    What they don't understand is they are undermining the coaches, putting inside pressure on the kid along with outside pressure, and just plain being annoying to the kids.    The kid usually ends up not liking the sport anymore and doesn't know why, and then,,,,, the cycle continues...  

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post #28 of 200
3/20/12 at 1:48pm

Of course innate ability exists, either by that name or something similar.

 

Imagine trying to argue the opposite: that everybody has exactly the same raw material and that after one week of coaching, each kid would have identical skills--no differences at all.  Pretty boring world, and unlikely.

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post #29 of 200
3/20/12 at 1:53pm

I believe that at least 50% in innate ability lies in mental attitude and confidence.  Mind over matter is a real phenomenon.  Having great natural balance, speed, and coordination is also a nice gift.  It can fuel the mental attitude and confidence and vice versa, having to guts to try things develops strength and coordination.  However, the two (attitude and physical ability) can influence each other, but are mutually exclusive at the highest level.

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post #30 of 200
3/20/12 at 2:03pm

Reading this thread, I am reminded of the old coaching cliche "you can't teach speed (or size or height, etc).". At a certain point, physical ability seems to always trump skill.

 

 

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