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What "Race Stock" skis will be available after 2013?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

I'm assuming that Rossi will continue their 185 cm 23 meter "Master's GS" ski.  Will other manufacturers follow suit, offering a genuine "Race Room" ski in a radius weekend warriors can turn through recreational GS sets?

 

Point being, are there going to be options after 2013, or realistically (with exception of Rossi's "Master's" model) are we just looking at Cheater skis?

 


 

Based on the economic principle, now the allure of 27 meter GS skis is as high as ever.  Once a ski that would be reserved for FIS competitions and heavy-weights, now is going to be a hot-ticket item next season?

 

Who is going to take the plunge and stock up on 27 meter Race Room skis?

post #2 of 29
Thread Starter 
Has anyone skied the 185 Rossi Masters GS ski? If so, can you confirm that it is actually "race room" construction as Rossi would have you believe?
post #3 of 29

VS, you're a recreational racer/skier. If you want race room skis, buy them, but 'cheater' GS skis won't hold the vast majority of us back. It's 'us', not the gear. Why not just race on something like a Head iSpeed and call it good?

post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
I knew what your response would be before i even read it. Would it be impossible to answer a question or just not say anything?

Who said i only have interest in race room skis for racing? One of the most exhilarating carving experiences of my life took place on race room GS skis on the open, ungated pistes. I experienced sensations impossible on cheater skis due to the race room construction.

If the Rossi Masters GS ski is basically a cheater, im not interested. However, if it is genuine race room it might be good, and it might be golden for up anld coming Mastars afficianados post-2013 when new 23 meter race room skis will be a thing of the past.
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

I'm assuming that Rossi will continue their 185 cm 23 meter "Master's GS" ski.  Will other manufacturers follow suit, offering a genuine "Race Room" ski in a radius weekend warriors can turn through recreational GS sets?

 

Point being, are there going to be options after 2013, or realistically (with exception of Rossi's "Master's" model) are we just looking at Cheater skis?

 


 

Based on the economic principle, now the allure of 27 meter GS skis is as high as ever.  Once a ski that would be reserved for FIS competitions and heavy-weights, now is going to be a hot-ticket item next season?

 

Who is going to take the plunge and stock up on 27 meter Race Room skis?


Why would 27m GS race skis be a "hot ticket" item?  I see that everybody who has one now is going to try to sell it (i.e., because they are now useless for racing), but the number of people who want to buy one I imagine is pretty low.  They aren't exactly the "ski of choice" for most terrain.  There's a reason they're hard to find -- hardly anybody sells them because hardly anybody wants them.

 

post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post


Why would 27m GS race skis be a "hot ticket" item?  I see that everybody who has one now is going to try to sell it (i.e., because they are now useless for racing), but the number of people who want to buy one I imagine is pretty low.  They aren't exactly the "ski of choice" for most terrain.  There's a reason they're hard to find -- hardly anybody sells them because hardly anybody wants them.

 


But itll be The last year to get them new. Therefore, a once-low demand might go through the roof.
post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 
The Only people who NEED 27 meter skis are wcuppers, coc/noram/fis, full ussa, and some junior fis. Id be willing to bet that more own these than is in one of these categories (because there just arent that many in those categories, and some that are are at such a level they are not getting retail skis from a public retail location.
post #8 of 29
Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen after next season. This isn't just what I believe, it's also what my local race shop...sells mostly to racers, sells Atomic, Elan, Rossignol, Nordica skis, boots, bindings, has extensive services...also says. Nobody knows, so don't assume anything. There's a number of aspects to this issue:

- Next year, the new regs...195 cm./35M and 188 cm./30 M apply only to WC. The Women's regs are, if anything, even more ludicrous than the Men's. I'm trying to imagine Tessa Worley skiing on a 188 cm./30 M ski, and somehow, I just can't do it. There are those who say this whole edict is going to disappear this summer. Remember, on the surface, the FIS isn't doing this to benefit or inhibit anyone, skier or manufacturer. They're doing it for safety reasons, remember? The WC just ended, and in the May/June timeframe, the summer training will start. The WC skiers will be on the new stuff this summer. Racers get injured in training as well as races. What if there's rash of knee injuries this summer on the new GS equipment? The FIS might be forced to rethink its position.

- The FIS currently has no trickle-down plan for the levels below WC. Next year, I *think* the way it's supposed to work, at least for Nor Am, is to use...last year's skis. I think I'm right just because next season, Atomic is going to supply only 4 FIS GS skis for adults: 195/35, 188/30, 190/27, 183/23. In effect, these are next year's WC specs, and this year's WC specs. Nobody knows what juniors are supposed to do. I can't speak for International Masters, but I'm pretty sure US Masters is going to continue with the currernt party line, which is "FIS WC regs are a suggestion, not a rule...use whatever you want."

- Again, it is not clear how junior racing will be affected by the new WC regs...watch this space.

So after next season, you would think that from the Manufacturers point of view, it would come down to a business decision. That is, the cost of making 195/35 and 188/30 for the WC skiers is just an expense, and a greater expensive is the amount of money someone like Atomic has to pay someone like Hirscher to ski on Atomic products. Below that level, there aren't as many racer freebies and incentives as there used to be. I believe that NCAA Div 1 racers, for example, are increasingly having to pay for skis at race form prices. Simple economics...relatively poor economic times world wide, ski manufacturers having to take on more and more of the costs of subsidizing ski racing...something that the manufacturers pointed out to the FIS some years ago, to no great effect.

So for Masters, beer league, and NASTAR folks, what will be available in 2013-2014? I'vve heard that the race ski makret in this country is a good one for the manufacturers, but mainly for junior racers. Really up to the manufacturers to decide if they want to continue to supply skis in lengths and sidecuts that work for us. The crystal ball says "Answer not clear...ask again later..."
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your insight, sr55.

I guess no matter what cheaters will be around, and i hope rossi keeps its semi-race room option.


Then again, based on my own comment above, for freeskiing purposes one of the wc models would work ok.

But my oh my 35 meters is so much more than even 27.
post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

I knew what your response would be before i even read it. Would it be impossible to answer a question or just not say anything?
Who said i only have interest in race room skis for racing? One of the most exhilarating carving experiences of my life took place on race room GS skis on the open, ungated pistes. I experienced sensations impossible on cheater skis due to the race room construction.
If the Rossi Masters GS ski is basically a cheater, im not interested. However, if it is genuine race room it might be good, and it might be golden for up anld coming Mastars afficianados post-2013 when new 23 meter race room skis will be a thing of the past.


hmmmm. Look, I get that race stock skis are a blast on piste, especially on a weekday when no one's around. I'll stop responding to your posts. You're just too all over the map about gear to even begin to offer any useful suggestions other than just buy of whatever you think will work for you. My mistake. I'll refrain. Good luck. Personally, I'd worry more about 'will there be snow in 2013?'

 

post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

VS, you're a recreational racer/skier. If you want race room skis, buy them, but 'cheater' GS skis won't hold the vast majority of us back. It's 'us', not the gear. Why not just race on something like a Head iSpeed and call it good?



+1. Ain't nothin wrong with the 27m skis. They ski fine. I've been on 193cm ">27m" skis, and those ski fine too. And do remember that the ">27m" should be seen as any number above 27m, not 27m on the spec. Most 190cm+ GS skis are currently around the 30-32m mark for radius. Not that big of a deal. Men's GS skis have always had larger radius than the limits, and yet everyone complains when the radius goes up a few meters. No big deal. Back in the 21m days alot of the longer skis were roughly 27-28m already. Like markojp said, its the wizard, not the wand, that does the magic.

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post



+1. Ain't nothin wrong with the 27m skis. They ski fine. I've been on 193cm ">27m" skis, and those ski fine too. And do remember that the ">27m" should be seen as any number above 27m, not 27m on the spec. Most 190cm+ GS skis are currently around the 30-32m mark for radius. Not that big of a deal. Men's GS skis have always had larger radius than the limits, and yet everyone complains when the radius goes up a few meters. No big deal. Back in the 21m days alot of the longer skis were roughly 27-28m already. Like markojp said, its the wizard, not the wand, that does the magic.


eek.gif  i find myself agreeing with RTTT!.  not young enough or fit enough to go to a 193 GS but....

 

I have made an interesting find this year.  I searched long and hard to find a 2011 Fischer WC GS 183 in the 23m size since I had liked the 2010 version and had not been happy with other 27m skis I had tried.   Since snow conditions were so poor early season I jumped on an almost new 2011 183  27m version instead. And, guess what, decided it was a better ski for me, with just more "meat" and bite than the 23m without being unmanageable.  Ended up selling  the 23m without even skiing them. Also picked up a 188 27m Fischer, and while I haven't had it in gates yet, it feels pretty good.  Also, as an aside for anyone on the Fischer WC gs hole ski, all the guys i train with have now done what I have been doing for a long time, moved the mount forward, ~ 10mm.  Makes a great ski even better.

 

post #13 of 29

I own two pairs of Rossingnol Master GS skis, the 174 and the 185. They are both real race skis that use a radius that is not FIS compliant. But they are true race skis out of the race department. Both are incredible skis for the race course; the only place I use them. I would highly recommend these skis for the race course or for flying down a very icy/hard trail. But like all great race skis, they need lots of attention; not a ski for when you are tired.

 

For the last few decades I stayed away from Rossingol and stuck to Volk true world cup race skis. But with the FIS rule changes it has been very hard to find true race skis that can deal with non-FIS race courses. The Rossingnol race skis have impressed me a lot. I still use the Volkl for Slalom, but for Master level GS racing, these ski are very hard to beat.

post #14 of 29
Rossi is definitely making the masters ski again next year. I've been on them, 185, 23m, they're nice, very solid and stable. No big changes that I could tell from the current model other than a different color graphic.
post #15 of 29
Oops, just realized this thread is a year old. Well, I can confirm there will be a 2013-2014 Rossi Masters GS ski.
post #16 of 29

27m skis in demand? I have a pair that I've been trying to sell for a while now, why haven't they been bought yet?

post #17 of 29

I had a look at next year's Atomic race catalogue right after the ski show in Denver. There will be a 183 cm 23 m GS ski available, called a Masters ski. Everything else is either 30 or 35 m.....

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

I had a look at next year's Atomic race catalogue right after the ski show in Denver. There will be a 183 cm 23 m GS ski available, called a Masters ski. Everything else is either 30 or 35 m.....

 

 

I was at a race demo yesterday and Dynastar (presumably Rossi as well) will have the same type of ski, 182, 25m (i.e. basically the same as women's FIS ski) and he refered to it as their U-16 ski.

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post

 

 

I was at a race demo yesterday and Dynastar (presumably Rossi as well) will have the same type of ski, 182, 25m (i.e. basically the same as women's FIS ski) and he refered to it as their U-16 ski.

I feel younger already ....smile.gif

post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post

 

 

I was at a race demo yesterday and Dynastar (presumably Rossi as well) will have the same type of ski, 182, 25m (i.e. basically the same as women's FIS ski) and he refered to it as their U-16 ski.

Saw the Dynastar 182 25m, looks like the WC ski of (old 2010-2012 model) with new graphics, in a Local shop in Collingwood March Break.  The Dynastar had Master on the graphics.

post #21 of 29

Ive been skiing in our club races on a pair of Völkl 180/R18,6m GS ski this season. I took the original crappy plate/binding combo off and replaced them with a piston plate and marker comp20 binding. Great GS ski for smaller events and tighter courses. Turns well and has incredible edge hold. Skied on them two weeks in the Alps. Dont underestimate the importance of the plate and the binding. And while you are at it, diverging from FIS rules and regulations, put a 5mm lifter plate under your binding.

 

Tip rocker on a GS ski is a good thing.

post #22 of 29

I thought I might bring back the discussion about what will be available.  I have a couple different thoughts on this and the first one is that I think no matter what FIS rules are, the demand for a 21-23M ski is greater.  It can be used with success at Masters, NASTAR, HS Racing, Beer league and even some U racing.  I'm wondering if manufacturers will look at WC (or maybe they already do) simply as advertising, and make just enough for that and make a bunch of 21-23M race stock ski for us mortals involved in the recreational racing arena.  It just seems like there is a bigger market of recreational racers than FIS.  I could be way off and maybe that is only in this area and is completely different overseas.

 

Also, Manufactures already have everything they need to make Recreational Race skis. All they have to do is not throw that stuff out. I would rather have a 21M ski that didn't change for the next ten years than get a different one every year or so. They've been making FIS skis and a scaled down version for recreational racers so as long as they don't lose the recipe, they should be able to just keep on doing what they've been doing.


The market for FIS skis has changed. Not the market for Recreational race skis. If it was a profitable market prior to the FIS change, it should stay that way after the change.

 

I'm also wondering if this FIS change and concern over NASTAR type Race Stock skis is what prompted NASTAR to bring in SL racing since there isn't the issue with the skis.

 

Ken

post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

VS, you're a recreational racer/skier. If you want race room skis, buy them, but 'cheater' GS skis won't hold the vast majority of us back. It's 'us', not the gear. Why not just race on something like a Head iSpeed and call it good?

The i.speed is actually too burly for many masters racers and the fischer RC4 Pro was even burlier!  . I wanted a pair of i.speeds  badly but after training on them opted for the Atomic D2 GS 179 18.6 meter. I will admit I could use a 183 ine D2 on many hills!

Last time my son and I watch the Masters GS at Crystal you could see air space under many of the nmasters racers skis in the belly of the turn, just too stiff for them to decamber them. Way too many on Race Stock skis when they should be a a Cheater GS

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

The i.speed is actually too burly for many masters racers and the fischer RC4 Pro was even burlier!  . I wanted a pair of i.speeds  badly but after training on them opted for the Atomic D2 GS 179 18.6 meter. I will admit I could use a 183 ine D2 on many hills!
Last time my son and I watch the Masters GS at Crystal you could see air space under many of the nmasters racers skis in the belly of the turn, just too stiff for them to decamber them. Way too many on Race Stock skis when they should be a a Cheater GS

Aman,
This is what I'm talking about. Now that the gap between what is allowed in FIS and needed in Masters or NASTAR has widened, I'm wondering if FIS would get a scaled up version of cheaters instead of Rec Racers getting a scaled down version of FIS.

The ski you need when going 55 is different from the one you need going 90, but the ski used for 55 can also be used for 45. I picked those mph based on NASTAR typically being about 45 mph, Masters about 55 mph and WC being just north of insanity and their guardian angel's max speed.

Also wonder how many Master racers would be able to bend the same ski in the same turn if the moved the binding forward some.

I know many successful NASTAR racers on 27M skis, but it is because they can compensate (i.e. step uphill) for the turn radius. I think they would be smoother and probably faster on a 21 or 23M ski.

Ken
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


Aman,
This is what I'm talking about. Now that the gap between what is allowed in FIS and needed in Masters or NASTAR has widened, I'm wondering if FIS would get a scaled up version of cheaters instead of Rec Racers getting a scaled down version of FIS.

The ski you need when going 55 is different from the one you need going 90, (I am a bit confused here, 90 MPH?  Only skis available for Sg & Downhill are Race Stock, except for a couple of junior versions) but the ski used for 55 can also be used for 45. I picked those mph based on NASTAR typically being about 45 mph, Masters about 55 mph and WC being just north of insanity and their guardian angel's max speed.  I am really confused here again, If we are talking Gs, you think Masters GS is 55 MPH?

Also wonder how many Master racers would be able to bend the same ski in the same turn if the moved the binding forward some. I hate bindings forward mounted, Atomic and Head are mounted back farther than about any manufacturer. And since I skied on a ton of Atomic race bindings I could experiment with binding placement with 5 different positions available on the hill with the flip of a knob, always moved the back to the "ALL Around" positions after trying them forward.)

I know many successful NASTAR racers on 27M skis, but it is because they can compensate (i.e. step uphill) for the turn radius. I think they would be smoother and probably faster on a 21 or 23M ski. The reason Nastar can ski on 27 M is the courses are not very offset and normally an easy set, no delays, nothing thrown at you, maybe one slightly offset gate. So yeah, not much if any terrain changes or blind gates, so yeah you can get away with a bigger radius. Masters is a completely different animal. Much more difficult!. Blind gates , air terrain change. For instance the Masters Gs run at Crystal is 1::00 fastest time to 1:35 slowest. What is the longest Nastar Gs?
I have skied on the Atomic D2 182 23.5M GS Womens's ski for an entire day.. It is a beast and I have to go 45 to get the thing working! Under that speed it is a tank!


Ken
post #26 of 29

^^^And A-Man is no lightweight!  I have some Salomon Lab GS 185 cm race stock skis that Scotskier gave me.  Gotta really be moving to get them fully laid out for sure.  Really smooth across icy patches and ruts when you do though.

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

I thought I might bring back the discussion about what will be available.  I have a couple different thoughts on this and the first one is that I think no matter what FIS rules are, the demand for a 21-23M ski is greater.  It can be used with success at Masters, NASTAR, HS Racing, Beer league and even some U racing.  I'm wondering if manufacturers will look at WC (or maybe they already do) simply as advertising, and make just enough for that and make a bunch of 21-23M race stock ski for us mortals involved in the recreational racing arena.  It just seems like there is a bigger market of recreational racers than FIS.  I could be way off and maybe that is only in this area and is completely different overseas.

 

Also, Manufactures already have everything they need to make Recreational Race skis. All they have to do is not throw that stuff out. I would rather have a 21M ski that didn't change for the next ten years than get a different one every year or so. They've been making FIS skis and a scaled down version for recreational racers so as long as they don't lose the recipe, they should be able to just keep on doing what they've been doing.


The market for FIS skis has changed. Not the market for Recreational race skis. If it was a profitable market prior to the FIS change, it should stay that way after the change.

 

I'm also wondering if this FIS change and concern over NASTAR type Race Stock skis is what prompted NASTAR to bring in SL racing since there isn't the issue with the skis.

 

Ken

 

Honestly if you are a racer I don't see this huge problem...

I think it's important to distinguish between racing and recreational skiers.

Let's start with racers.

Here are the rules:

 

Quote:

For MASTERS Racing Minimum ski length and radius are recommendations (except: Ski length for Super-G)

a) Slalom
Men: 165 cm -
Ladies: 155 cm -

b) Giant Slalom:

Men: 185cm-5cm tolerance = 180cm Radius 27 m

Ladies: 180cm5cm tolerance = 175cm Radius 23 m

c) Super-G: Minimum ski length is mandatory, radius recommended:

Men: 185 cm without tolerance Radius 27 m

Ladies: 180 cm without tolerance Radius 23 m 

Which means you can use pretty much anything you like... 
keeping in mind that the new ladies GS specs are 188cm-5cm = 183cm Radius 30m, Master skis will cover the spot quite nicely. 
Blizzard WRC for example is offered in 176,182,186 with Radius of 20m (182) so 182 for ladies, 186 for men.
The FIS model will be in 182,186,188,195 with Radius 30m (188) so if you feel like the master is too shaped the FIS in 182 and 186 should be a perfect match.

 

For recreational skiers:

 

My everyday ski the 2009 HEAD GS  FIS women real race stock; I have absolutely no issues skiing it all day long, cruising with friends. Super friendly ski, you can do pretty much anything with it.

When I'm training I'm on 190 >27m FIS skis, and while they are not as versatile as the HEAD I can still ski all day no problem. Granted they are not as fun. 
As a reference I would free ski the 2009 HEAD over any FIS SL any day.

The new master models fall right in the same area as my 2009 HEAD, so really there shouldn't be any problems if you want a fun fast, relatively easy, ski.
 

If that's still to much the consumer models will fill in the gap quite nicely and still allow you to race beer league/nastar.

post #28 of 29

Seems to me like one facet of this - not the only one - has to do with the length / flex equation and how that interacts with skier size. Consider the Rossi adult cheater GS vs. the Rossi adult FIS GS, for example.

 

The cheater model comes in the following lengths: 162,168,174,180,186. Lets assume these five sizes correspond roughly to skier size in 20% increments, taking into account that this is a unisex ski but presumably biased towards purchase and use by men, as most skis are which aren't explicitly women's models. Now, at 5' 7" and 135lbs,, I'm in the habit of thinking of myself as "smaller than average." Stats recently posted by Beyond suggest that among contemporary American men I'm actually somewhere south of the 5th percentile for weight. Based on this fact, and based on having skied a bunch of cheater GS skis over the years, I know that in terms of flexing the ski, even at speed, I really belong on one of the shorter lengths - probably no longer than the 168 in this case. However, I might legitimately feel like I could well do with more length than that, for stability's sake, especially when in the course, actually racing. So is the solution for me to go with the 174 or even the 180 cheater? Probably not. Those sizes are clearly made for guys who outweigh me by 50 pounds or (much) more, and who are probably four to eight inches taller. Flex is a problem there.

 

Depending on what source you read, the FIS model comes either in [170,175,182,185,191] or [175,182,185,191]. (Some sources treat the 170 strictly as a juniors-only ski. It gets complicated because of the two different plates they use and a bunch of other stuff, but just work with me.) Again, lets correlate these lengths roughly with skier size. Okay, now we're talking. I can be on a 175 that's presumably built with someone my size in mind. Remember, this is a "women's" length by the rules, which are built around male and female racers' average statures, not my stature. Yeah, maybe it's still a stiff ski as skis go, but at least it's not designed for the big dudes.

post #29 of 29

Jzamp,

I agree but I'm talking about supply and demand and availability of skis.

 

Aman,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post


Aman,
This is what I'm talking about. Now that the gap between what is allowed in FIS and needed in Masters or NASTAR has widened, I'm wondering if FIS would get a scaled up version of cheaters instead of Rec Racers getting a scaled down version of FIS.

The ski you need when going 55 is different from the one you need going 90, (I am a bit confused here, 90 MPH?  OK.  I exaggerated a little and that is probably closer to downhill or super G speed.  My point was that WC's go faster than Recreational racers, and they would be able to use a higher TR ski.  Only skis available for Sg & Downhill are Race Stock, except for a couple of junior versions) but the ski used for 55 can also be used for 45. I picked those mph based on NASTAR typically being about 45 mph, Masters about 55 mph and WC being just north of insanity and their guardian angel's max speed.  I am really confused here again, If we are talking Gs, you think Masters GS is 55 MPH?  I'm going from memory on what I read in Lisa Densmore's book "Ski Faster"; 45mph for NASTAR and 55 MPH for Masters.  When I find the book, I'll verify.  Again, the point of this isn't the accuracy of the speed in either type race, but the fact that NASTAR and Masters are in the same range, albeit they each might be on opposite ends of the ranges spectrum.  Trying to point out that a ski that works well in Masters Racing for GS would work well in NASTAR GS racing.


Also wonder how many Master racers would be able to bend the same ski in the same turn if the moved the binding forward some. I hate bindings forward mounted, Atomic and Head are mounted back farther than about any manufacturer. And since I skied on a ton of Atomic race bindings I could experiment with binding placement with 5 different positions available on the hill with the flip of a knob, always moved the back to the "ALL Around" positions after trying them forward.)  Binding mount position is a personal preference.  Some skiers and racers, especially those closer to being normal in size like me (5'7" <160# biggrin.gif) can benefit from the bindings being slightly more forward on a stiff race ski.

I know many successful NASTAR racers on 27M skis, but it is because they can compensate (i.e. step uphill) for the turn radius. I think they would be smoother and probably faster on a 21 or 23M ski. The reason Nastar can ski on 27 M is the courses are not very offset and normally an easy set, no delays, nothing thrown at you, maybe one slightly offset gate. So yeah, not much if any terrain changes or blind gates, so yeah you can get away with a bigger radius. Masters is a completely different animal. Much more difficult!. Blind gates , air terrain change. For instance the Masters Gs run at Crystal is 1::00 fastest time to 1:35 slowest. What is the longest Nastar Gs?  Maybe we do it different here.  Yes the courses are easier and shorter than Master's, but I've run into everything you mentioned in NASTAR although it might not have been in the same course.  Keep in mind I'm including Beer League in this and not just the weekend Nastar courses.  At my home mountain, beer league is steeper, longer and more challenging and at the end of the season for Finals, it gets steeper and longer with a PAR of 36-37 seconds.  So if Ligety is going to do the course in 36 seconds, the rest of us take a tad longer.   Naster courses are supposed to have 17-20 gates with a 23 second par according to the Nastar site.  I understand that Master's is longer, but that doesn't matter to the ski.  The racer might care quite a bit but we aren't talking about them; just the ski and what it can be used for.  The ski doesn't care if it is making a turn 20 times or 40 times.
I have skied on the Atomic D2 182 23.5M GS Womens's ski for an entire day.. It is a beast and I have to go 45 to get the thing working! Under that speed it is a tank!  Moving the bindings forward on days like this might make it more enjoyable and drop the speed you need to bend the ski down a bit.  Again, this is a personal preference.  I have gone from having mine forward to back to where the manufacturer recommends they be and currently I'm preferring that on my Elan's, which I think tend to be more forward than others.

 

 

Ken

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