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What am I doing wrong?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

I just waxed my own skis for the first time and the felt sluggish on the snow the next day.  4-6" new snow, outside temp 28F.  I don't know whether I just screwed it up or it's the type of wax I used.  First, how I did it.   Brushed the bases with some fibertex, then a brass brush.  I used a base renew from Dominator, let cool for 15-30 min then scraped with 6mm plastic until no more wax could be scraped and then horse hair brush two or three passes.   Then dripped on Dominator Hyperzoom (low-fluoro, all-temp), again scraped until no more wax could be scraped then the horsehair brush again.   Did I scrape too much?  Brush too much?  Thanks for your help.

post #2 of 18

Nothing jumps out to me as wrong.  Did they feel sluggish all day, or just for the first few runs?  Was the snow like powder or more dense?

post #3 of 18

Almost definitely the wax. I've found that so called all temp/universal waxes sometimes have their issues with fresh snow, particularly when it's on the cold, dry side. 

post #4 of 18
Thread Starter 

Yes, new powder.  Not a constant temp from the top to the bottom of mountain, it was heavy in some areas and light powder in others. 

 

Well, damn, I thought I was being smart about getting an all temp wax... Not cheap either.   Truthfully, I don't measure snow temp and don't really want to.  I ski at crystal mtn in WA primarily, but all over the PNW where the snow has a lot of moisture.  Outside temps range 20'sF to mid-high 30's lately, obviously going to get warmer in the next month.  What type of wax would you recommend?  Is it a good idea to continue to do the base renew?  I like to ski fast on groomers when there's no new snow, but not competitively.  And I like skiing off trail when conditions are right. 

post #5 of 18

IF you get swix wax all their stuff is rated by air temp rather than snow making it a lot easier to use.  

post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronch View Post

I just waxed my own skis for the first time and the felt sluggish on the snow the next day.  4-6" new snow, outside temp 28F.  I don't know whether I just screwed it up or it's the type of wax I used.  First, how I did it.   Brushed the bases with some fibertex, then a brass brush.  I used a base renew from Dominator, let cool for 15-30 min then scraped with 6mm plastic until no more wax could be scraped and then horse hair brush two or three passes.   Then dripped on Dominator Hyperzoom (low-fluoro, all-temp), again scraped until no more wax could be scraped then the horsehair brush again.   Did I scrape too much?  Brush too much?  Thanks for your help.


How long did you leave the Hyperzoom on?

 

post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsirin View Post


How long did you leave the Hyperzoom on?

 


About 30 minutes until cool/hard to the touch. 

 

post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronch View Post
  Truthfully, I don't measure snow temp and don't really want to.


You don't have to.     IMO, measuring snow temp will tell you very, very little.      Watch the air temps.      If there is a big drop in air temps before the snow gets old (or even during the snowfall),  the snow will be sharp, and you will need harder wax.

 

You did just fine otherwise. icon14.gif

 

 

 

 

post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your help.  I will give a different wax a try too... 

post #10 of 18

Forget the fluoro and save yourself some money.  Holmenkol Beta (Red) makes a great base wax with a decent temperature range and is very much the go-to wax here in tahoe.  Mix it up with some Alpha (yellow) when it gets warmer/wetter and Ultra (blue) for colder.  In actual fact this season with so much man-made snow i have found that I have been consistently waxing colder (more blue) than normal and it has worked well.  If you do want some low fluoro,I have been finding that the Holmenkol Fluoromix makes a great base and then add the selected red/yellow/blue as required on top.  Nothing wrong with Swix either, you just have to carry a greater range of waxes with them as the range tends to be smaller

 

Another thought.  Did you use enough of the hyperzoom after the Renew?  

post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

Forget the fluoro and save yourself some money.  Holmenkol Beta (Red) makes a great base wax with a decent temperature range and is very much the go-to wax here in tahoe.  Mix it up with some Alpha (yellow) when it gets warmer/wetter and Ultra (blue) for colder.  In actual fact this season with so much man-made snow i have found that I have been consistently waxing colder (more blue) than normal and it has worked well.  If you do want some low fluoro,I have been finding that the Holmenkol Fluoromix makes a great base and then add the selected red/yellow/blue as required on top.  Nothing wrong with Swix either, you just have to carry a greater range of waxes with them as the range tends to be smaller

 

Another thought.  Did you use enough of the hyperzoom after the Renew?  



Good question... I think so, there was a nice even layer across the base.  But I'm not sure, I might try to purposely over do it next time.   I agree, I don't need a flourinated wax I just thought it would be fun to experiment.  I appreciate the advice for Holmenkol and I'll take a look.  It's rare that I can actually get to the mountain just after it storms, sometime I get lucky like yesterday.  Most of the time it's 3-4 days old, but no man-made yet.  I just don't have a good sense of when to use a warm wax or cold wax, I was going to use a warm wax in the spring.

 

post #12 of 18

The wax you are using is nice wax and is what i use, minus the hyper zoom. You should not be sticking in that kind of temperature. You likely had too much wax left on your skis.  Try hot crayoning the wax in -- touch your wax to your iron and rub the wax into the ski, repeat until your base is mostly covered, they scrape.

 

If your bases aren't flat, you will also get pockets of wax even after scraping. Brush more than 2-3 times with horsehair -- more like 20.

 

good luck

 

post #13 of 18


I see a few issues with the application:

 

Renew must be brushed with an aggressive brush such as brass or fine steel, horsehair is way soft. It probably left a good deal of Renew behind which mixed with the Hyperzoom and altered its glide properties. The intended use for Renew is either to hot-scrape clean (no waiting between ironing and scraping) or base conditioning (a minimum of one hour waiting between waxing and scraping). Waiting for 15-30 minutes as you did will leave a soft, sticky wax which will not be easily removed, especially with a horsehair brush and will end up mixing with the glide wax.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronch View Post


About 30 minutes until cool/hard to the touch. 

 


You need at least two hours, overnight is best. Scrape well, then brush out well with a brass, or preferrably brass/horsehair combi brush. Horsehair is too soft and it leaves a lot of wax behind, this is an issue with new snow.

 

post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanos K View Post


I see a few issues with the application:

 

Renew must be brushed with an aggressive brush such as brass or fine steel, horsehair is way soft. It probably left a good deal of Renew behind which mixed with the Hyperzoom and altered its glide properties. The intended use for Renew is either to hot-scrape clean (no waiting between ironing and scraping) or base conditioning (a minimum of one hour waiting between waxing and scraping). Waiting for 15-30 minutes as you did will leave a soft, sticky wax which will not be easily removed, especially with a horsehair brush and will end up mixing with the glide wax.
 


You need at least two hours, overnight is best. Scrape well, then brush out well with a brass, or preferrably brass/horsehair combi brush. Horsehair is too soft and it leaves a lot of wax behind, this is an issue with new snow.

 


All good points, thanks. 
 

 

post #15 of 18

Is your base black or clear? 


Even when we get new snow here in PNW at 23 degrees it has high humidity.  Youy should have used a higher flouro wax. If your bases are black Renew Graphite for black base works great even by itself!

 

I used Homnekol Red yesterday. 24 degrees and lots of new snow and my son's  skis had no wax on and he left me in the dust on the flats.

 

Nearly 100% humidity yesterday.

 

We have had excellent results with Dominator All Temp waxes. Both freeskiing and using  (new and Old Snow) Race Zoom. 

 

But I think you missed the mark by using low flouro with high humidity snow.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronch View Post


All good points, thanks. 
 

 



 

post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 

Black bases and I'm using the Renew graphite.  I used the "virtual technician" on thir website and plugged in wet new snow 20-30 F and the recommendation was for a low-fluoro wax.   I agree that the higher fluoro wax may be better, but the hyperzoom was recommended by the sales person to me when I got it.  I wouldn't have thought the difference between the high-fluoro's and the hyperzoom would be that dramatic.   I appreciate the advice though since you know the conditions, I'm going to see if more brushing vs hot scrape helps.  I know that when i got them waxed on the mountain there was a noticeable difference in speed and I'm sure they use a cheap wax there.  I have a feeling it's a combination of things including wax type, but likely my technique. 

post #17 of 18

What Thanos K said. The Renew can be pretty gummy. Gotta use the right brush and get it out of the structure before your next wax goes on. I'm a northeastern guy but I'm skeptical that this is a wax selection issue.

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post


You don't have to.     IMO, measuring snow temp will tell you very, very little.      Watch the air temps. ...

 


I disagree, which I find surprising as I have found all your other posts I have read to be spot on.

 

Wax hardness selection is based purely on the penetrating ability of the snow. There are three major components to that:

1. Snow remperature (cold snow is harder = more penetrating)

2. Snow crystal shape (sharper crystals are more penetrating)

3. The presence of hard impurities in the snow (for example in many areas in Japan the snow is polluted by volcanic ash which contains glass particles and other minerals)

 

So while snow temperature is only one of the three factors, it is very critical to wax selection. Air temperatures are certainly important, but not as critical as snow temperatures. AND they can be quite misleading: For example if the snow cover is more than a couple of feet the surface of the snow is well insulated from the geothermal energy so at midday snow temperatures and air temperatures will be really close. If the snow cover is very thin the geothermal energy will warm up the snow surface and the snow will be much warmer than the air. During the 98 Olympics in Norway where there was a lots of snow, air temps and snow temps were really close, around -20C. At the same time in a citizens race in Wisconsin where snow cover was very thin, air temperature was -20C but the snow temperature was a much warmer -8C. And there are other complications: Depending on exposure there can be a big difference between snow and air temperatures during the day. For example in Stratton the air was often  a warm 0C but the snow remained at -7C. The time of day may also be a complicating factor; the air may be -5C all day, but the snow may vary from -10C in the morning to -5C at noon. So if I had to choose one or the other, I would go with snow temp. Most of the wax companies seem to agree as the major factor in their wax charts is snow temperature and the secondary snow crystal type (new or old).
 

 


Edited by Thanos K - 3/15/12 at 9:56am
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