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CRUDOLOGY--revisited! - Page 5

post #121 of 141

Dissecting something I love is obviously not my sport.  I'll butt out from where I definitely do not belong and let you continue.  Sorry for the intrusion.  Carry on!

post #122 of 141

NO NO NO that's not how it works.

Stay instead and provide the voice of reason, be the loyal opposition.  

Offer a more sane approach, or be the counterpoint in the thread's rhythm.

post #123 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post
 


I do not deny that his post gave an detailed description of what could be happening, it is just incomprehensible and therefore unusable information for most people who are attempting to ski a condition that is weird to them.  It is not something you can concentrate on during the skiing experience, but tipping and turning with tails following tips is an excellent starting place.  I completely disagree that it will not be much help to a student.  Intellectually understanding crud skiing does not really help with getting the feel of it, which is 90% of the battle, so why confuse a student with concepts like "micro opportunities for rotary friction," instead of giving them something to work with?  I always forget that you guys just enjoy the analysis, even if he has no instructional function. "Simple is better" is the antithesis of this thread.

 

You are touching upon a very delicate issue. How technical should we be during a lesson? The normal answer would be "that depends" but I highly agree with you, you cannot usually be very technical. Even if you have a student that asks you all these specific questions I see my job out on the mountain to be more practical than technical. And I try to keep the lesson going in that direction. There is really no time for all that technical stuff except if that's the topic of instructors coaching. Usually the student asking a technical question don't want a technical answer. That's the skill IMO. To be able to turn it into simple movements.

 

Here, its another story but I don't complain. You have to eat your own crappologia.

post #124 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

NO NO NO that's not how it works.

Stay instead and provide the voice of reason, be the loyal opposition.  

Offer a more sane approach, or be the counterpoint in the thread's rhythm.

 

I agree with that LF but not in the context of opposition to whether we should or should not engage in this level of detail that instructors and coaches would engage in with each other and an opposition of which would render the volumes of detailed complexity you yourself have shared on this forum as "useless". Everyone on this thread already knows that this type of communication is not what is shared with students and rather is a product of interest and curiosity of why the simple statements we would make to students are the correct ones. I would be more than happy to hear what Mudfoot would have to say concerning the details of the why and the how in regards to what does or does not work for his skiing. Regardless of how experiential one's learning has been, without the ability to articulate it in writing, it is very difficult to share where sharing is the primary asset to these threads.

 

Edit: Would like to ad that Mudfoots proposition regarding experiential learning is a valid one and one that promotes what I believe to be is the key to good experiential learning which is the drill.

 

... and to sibhusky, you already have that button on your keyboard which is the "back" button on your browser.


Edited by Rich666 - 4/7/16 at 7:19am
post #125 of 141
Personally, I'd like an emoticon for when a thread that starts out great turns into a eye glazer. Or a "Run!" Button.
post #126 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Personally, I'd like an emoticon for when a thread that starts out great turns into a eye glazer. Or a "Run!" Button.

 

 

I think all threads follow that pattern.  

post #127 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Personally, I'd like an emoticon for when a thread that starts out great turns into a eye glazer. Or a "Run!" Button.

An eye glazer for some might be when it starts to get interesting for others.

post #128 of 141

In my "real" job I teach college students to make are, and to talk about it.

Some things are quite difficult to talk about.  Skiing is certainly one of those, and so is art.  

 

In my art history course I have students whose sentences trail off as they run out of words....

They have a vague "idea" of what they want to say, but that idea just won't come out verbally.

They are stuck.  They can't yet communicate what they see, what they feel, what they think.

When they find the words, that vague stuff gets crystallized.  Others can understand, and 

a back-and-forth starts to happen amongst the class members.  It gets interesting.

 

I know there's a temptation to let those eyes glaze over.  But groping through the fog of inadequate

words to find a way to verbally communicate with each other about complex things is worth the pain.  

IMHO.

post #129 of 141
Getting ideas lined up in your head so that YOU understand them is the beginning of being able to express them to someone else.
post #130 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

Getting ideas lined up in your head so that YOU understand them is the beginning of being able to express them to someone else.

True. The best way to learn is to teach.
post #131 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

Getting ideas lined up in your head so that YOU understand them is the beginning of being able to express them to someone else.

True. The best way to learn is to teach.

 

 

Very true.  After graduating Magna Cum Laude from Berklee I was hired to teach.  After the first year of teaching I realized that my understanding of the subject matter had increased exponentially by explaining it to others.

post #132 of 141
Knowing how to ski and being able to ski are two different things.
post #133 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Knowing how to ski and being able to ski are two different things.

....but not necessarily mutually exclusive.

zenny
post #134 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Knowing how to ski and being able to ski are two different things.

The best teachers I know are all very very strong skiers.
post #135 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


The best teachers I know are all very very strong skiers.

Yes. I believe that in order to understand and convey the details of higher level skiing you must have at least been close to experiencing it yourself.

post #136 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Knowing how to ski and being able to ski are two different things.

The best teachers I know are all very very strong skiers.


The converse — that all strong skiers are good teachers — doesn't hold true, though.  Teaching is a separate talent.

post #137 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post


The converse — that all strong skiers are good teachers — doesn't hold true, though.  Teaching is a separate talent.

Sure... Most professional athletes prove that every day. smile.gif
post #138 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post


The converse — that all strong skiers are good teachers — doesn't hold true, though.  Teaching is a separate talent.

Sure... Most professional athletes prove that every day. smile.gif


That was in my mind.

post #139 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Knowing how to ski and being able to ski are two different things.

The best teachers I know are all very very strong skiers.

Lakespapa quote: The converse — that all strong skiers are good teachers — doesn't hold true, though.  Teaching is a separate talent.

 

Perhaps a more accurate way to say it is that all good teachers are or "were" good skiers at some point in time. Still, though, effective learning requires an open mind so that ALL opportunities for learning can be taken advantage of. Just because a skier has never risen to the ability of their student does not mean that they could not have valuable "ah ha" input due to a uniquely wandering perspective that a highly trained coach may not be capable of. While for the most part it does, It is too easy for us to assume that good teaching must equate with good skiing.

 
post #140 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich666 View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Knowing how to ski and being able to ski are two different things.


The best teachers I know are all very very strong skiers.
Lakespapa quote: The converse — that all strong skiers are good teachers — doesn't hold true, though.  Teaching is a separate talent.

Perhaps a more accurate way to say it is that all good teachers are or "were" good skiers at some point in time. Still, though, effective learning requires an open mind so that ALL opportunities for learning can be taken advantage of. Just because a skier has never risen to the ability of their student does not mean that they could not have valuable "ah ha" input due to a uniquely wandering perspective that a highly trained coach may not be capable of. While for the most part it does, It is too easy for us to assume that good teaching must equate with good skiing.


 

I agree with this. Many great coaches aren't as good at their sport as the athletes they train. (I doubt they can be actually bad at that sport, though -- perhaps especially in skiing, or in any sport in which coaching requires demonstration.)
post #141 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post


I agree with this. Many great coaches aren't as good at their sport as the athletes they train. (I doubt they can be actually bad at that sport, though -- perhaps especially in skiing, or in any sport in which coaching requires demonstration.)

 

If the coach were as good at the sport as the athlete, they'd be racing. 

 

Even the best racer in the world has a coach. 

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