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Mike Rogan does not know what tree skiing is.  

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 

 

I mean there are trees on the run, but really untill every turn you do is shaped some how by the trees its not really tree skiing. 

 

If your out there I know of places with tree skiing to do your next video at.

 

 

 

 

post #2 of 56

Watch the video again and listen closely to what he said...and maybe you'll get the point

and instructoral message.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post

 

I mean there are trees on the run, but really untill every turn you do is shaped some how by the trees its not really tree skiing. 

 

If your out there I know of places with tree skiing to do your next video at.

 

 

 

 



 

post #3 of 56

...

post #4 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post

Watch the video again and listen closely to what he said...and maybe you'll get the point

and instructoral message.
 



doubtful. very doubtful. 

post #5 of 56

There are only three things to know about skiing trees.

 

1) Aim for the white

 

2) Don't follow anyone's track

 

3 put your ski tracks between two trees spaced too closely for a snowboard to follow!

 

 

post #6 of 56
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post



doubtful. very doubtful. 



even his advice is wrong. 

 

you have to keep your body compact - maybe a narrower stance but that is debatable. Certainly we do not want more static flex as the taller you are the more you can absorb.

 

 

We keep our center of mass over our feet - the best do not keep the center of mass over their feet we dynamically move our COM to anticipate where are skis are going to be

 

Pole planting isnt necessary? while I agree some really good skier can get away with never pole touching in REAL trees a solid quiver of different pole touches/plants is extremely necessary 

 

 

post #7 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgrandy View Post

There are only three things to know about skiing trees.

 

1) Aim for the white

 

2) Don't follow anyone's track

 

3 put your ski tracks between two trees spaced too closely for a snowboard to follow!

 

 


are you the chris from Middlebury? 

 

post #8 of 56

'haven't been,  but I'm open to change ;)

post #9 of 56

 

Your title is unfair and unnecessarily inflammatory.  I suspect he knows what all kinds of tree skiing is.  

Listening to the commentary tells me the video is aimed at those who are just starting to venture off-piste and into or around any kind of trees.  More open glades is ideal for that.

 

As in Instructor, would you take a novice skier into the densest forest you could find just to show him/her "what tree skiing is???"

post #10 of 56

Yes, the callout is entirely unprofessional, immature, unnecessary, and misses the entire point of the video.   nonono2.gif

post #11 of 56

There is western tree skiing, eastern tree skiing, and tight tree skiing.  The video showed western ski treeing.  That is all.

post #12 of 56
I would think Josh should be able to show himself skiing at the level he imagines himself.

Based on his comments here, he imagines himself a better skier than Mike Rogan.

I'd like to see Josh prove that. Instead what we'll get is verbal bluster, and a video. As if video vs video proves anything.

Settle down Josh. Please. It's boring, and nauseating, to read your constant self-aggrandizement. And I don't really like being bored and nauseated at the same time.

You remind me of a kid who makes Law Review and graduates Summa Cum Laude, and thinks that makes him an outstanding lawyer in real law practice. You've mistaken holding a gold pin for being an outstanding skier. I don't think holding an L3 means that. I think it means you can pass the L3 exam when administered by the person who passes you. And not much more.
post #13 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post

And I don't really like being bored and nauseated at the same time.


LOL

post #14 of 56

Josh - if this is supposed to be one of those GNAR "Pro Call-outs", you need to A: make it more obvious, and B: realize that "Pro-Callouts" were already old and lame this time last year.

post #15 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Josh - if this is supposed to be one of those GNAR "Pro Call-outs", you need to A: make it more obvious, and B: realize that "Pro-Callouts" were already old and lame this time last year.



it really is not, although I would love for Rogan to come ski stowe and bring the spitfires. I do not imagine myself better at all, i am just holding him to a higher standard since he is the head of the demo team. 

 

It really is just like where are the trees? skierish if he does know 'all types of trees" then lets see it. He is supposely the best I want to see him ski trees while cross blocking branches out of the way. 

 

GV I would be the first to tell you that being L3 is nearly meaningless if you want it to be. Curious did you ever get yours? 

post #16 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post



it really is not, although I would love for Rogan to come ski stowe and bring the spitfires. I do not imagine myself better at all, i am just holding him to a higher standard since he is the head of the demo team. 

 

It really is just like where are the trees? skierish if he does know 'all types of trees" then lets see it. He is supposely the best I want to see him ski trees while cross blocking branches out of the way. 

 

GV I would be the first to tell you that being L3 is nearly meaningless if you want it to be. Curious did you ever get yours? 


You still don't understand that it has nothing to do with a pin. Your director at Stowe should take you out behind the woodshed. Honestly, I'd fire you for embarrassing the school with your insufferable crap and arrogance. You don't have the skills to fit your ego.

 

post #17 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


You still don't understand that it has nothing to do with a pin. Your director at Stowe should take you out behind the woodshed. Honestly, I'd fire you for embarrassing the school with your insufferable crap and arrogance. You don't have the skills to fit your ego.

 



again no ego. just saying where are the trees. It would be like me posting a bump skiing video with no bumps. 

 

also my SSD might be one of biggest supporters.  

post #18 of 56

I think Josh is questioning the definition, not the skiing quality.

 

When you are used to skiing tight trees, where you have to duck under things, make SL turns, sometimes complicated by bumps, to avoid a mouthful of bark and occasionally snag a ski on the bushes, you come to think of that type of skiing as "tree skiing".  Skiing relatively open country below the tree-line just doesn't seem like "tree skiing".  It's just perspective based on experience.  The skiing shown in the video is not "groomer" skiing, and it's not extreme skiing.  Maybe to Josh, it's just skiing, but then most skiing is "just skiing" to me, and you have to do better than that in describing the conditions. As shown by the video, you do have to alter you line to stay in the "corridors" between the trees, and can choose what trees to go around on the left and what trees to go around on the right, even though you can use GS turns to do so.  That makes it "tree skiing".  Western tree skiing in my vocabulary reference.

post #19 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post

GV I would be the first to tell you that being L3 is nearly meaningless if you want it to be. Curious did you ever get yours? 

Josh... give it a rest. You're not as funny as McConkey and you're surely nowhere near the skier he was. Imitating him is just bad karma. You come off like a beer-soaked fratboy with a closeted attraction to McConkey.

See: that's how you do subtle humor, Josh.

Let me guess: the only "real" tree skiing is where the trees are so tight that the only way to ski them is to have a chainsaw instead of poles, and you cut them down as you go through them. That's how real Josh-Men ski. Right?

Now serious: I'm sure you've taught students for whom an occasional tree -- spacing even WIDER than in Rogan's video -- is a serious problem.

Does the video series from which Rogan's video comes pretend to be showing the D-Team member skiing the toughest terrain types possible? Or is it instructional for a broad audience?

Do you use high-level-skier levels of detail and challenge for never-evers? Do you take an utter rookie onto Goat and say "here's where you need to learn!"

***************

Ghost: if what Josh really was doing was questioning the definition, then he could have done that in a much different way. He might have realized that it's tough to get good video of really tight trees and a skier making good tactical choices within those trees, while demonstrating good skiing. Implying that Rogan can only ski super-widely-spaced trees is how he comes across. Why would he want to come across that way, if not to also imply that Rogan can't ski well but Josh sure can!

This is why I say video-vs-video is useless. But to a kid like Josh, the Internetz and GoPro and video ARE reality and in-person reality is something to be forgotten because we can create a new, false, artificial reality on the Internetz.

Oh well. Mentally he's a 14-year-old boy who is proving his cool kids cred by urinating on EpicSki like a dog on neighborhood fire hydrants. If that's what y'all want going on here -- juvenile pot-shotting instead of half-decent satire, more power to ye.
Edited by GrizzledVeteran - 3/11/12 at 6:51am
post #20 of 56

Mike Rogan is a phenomenal skier.  Those trees are more like glade skiing in the east.  But, Rogan can ski.

post #21 of 56
This is why EpicSki needs a thumbs down rating too.
post #22 of 56

Mr. Rogan has laid out a very credible "starting point" for novice tree skiers. He states this very clearly in his wrap up at the end. The title you chose and your critique of the instructional content clearly shows you have much to learn Grasshopper!

post #23 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

This is why EpicSki needs a thumbs down rating too.


Couldn't agree more Kneale!

 

post #24 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

This is why EpicSki needs a thumbs down rating too.

Well, I agree with the sentiment Kneale.

However, I don't think a thumbs down would be as effective as the OPs own words wink.gif
post #25 of 56

I would like to hijack this thread for a moment to complain that I cannot open the link to this video on my iPad.

post #26 of 56

I guess switching Screen Names doesn't change the childish arrogance of his posts.

post #27 of 56

I'm not an instructor.  Not a fabulous skier.  Just a hack.

 

But, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that if you're making a video about skiing you have to be able to see someone skiing.  If you tried to shoot an instructional video in tight trees all you would see is trees.  They did what they could, but as soon as your subject cuts around a tree trunk, the shot is over so they had to use open spots to get any good video.

 

This whole thread is based on a false understanding.

post #28 of 56

Both skiers demonstrate staying in a narrow corridor except in the first shot, and the lines get tighter as the video progresses. Personally, I'd prefer to ski these lines than whack through Vermont sticker bushes. Skiing nice snow in well spaced trees does not suck. Doing so, whether in an instructional video or not, isn't conclusive proof that the skier can't beat around the bushes.

 

But if he was any good, he'd be doing it freeheel, just saying...

 

Perhaps we should distinguish between tree skiing and clearing brush.

post #29 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post

skierish if he does know 'all types of trees" then lets see it. He is supposely the best I want to see him ski trees while cross blocking branches out of the way. 

 

You still don't get it, that's not what the video is intended to show.  If that's what he wanted to show, I'm sure he would have.

 

Read my 2nd sentence again.  The video is clearly aimed at exploratory low to mid intermediates who are wanting to start venturing into areas with trees about.  The low-angle, more openly gladed terrain depicted in the video is perfect for that skier, the one toward whom this particular video is directed.

 

You never answered the question of where you would take such a student, BTW.  Let's say you have an advancing intermediate skier with, say, fairly decent fundamental skills.  He says, "Instructor Josh, I've been ducking off the groomers more and more, and I would like to start skiing in some trees."  Where do you take that student??? 

 

Also, what made you pick the wording of your title?  Why not something like, "Pretty Forgiving 'Tree Skiing,'" or "Looks More Like Glade Skiing," or even "Nice, Short Video For Beginning Tree Skiers?"  Instead, you chose to prominently name the Instructor and openly belittle his knowledge, and I'm just curious why one would choose to go that route.
 

 

post #30 of 56

 

 

Quote:
Let me guess: the only "real" tree skiing is where the trees are so tight that the only way to ski them is to have a chainsaw instead of poles, and you cut them down as you go through them. That's how real Josh-Men ski. Right?

LMAO.  But first of all Mike Rogan is an incredible skier.  I had the pleasure of watching him ski this year at my home mountain and it was truly impressive.  Second, If you look at any of Rogan's videos, he does most if not all of the video in a very novice-friendly area.  I could be wrong, but I think he barely gets into the bumps in his bump video.  Either way, it's clear that he was trying to appeal to a wider audience here, as he should.  It's the aspiring newcomers who are starting to really like skiing that these videos are made for, not us (not saying we can't draw things from the video, but that we are maybe more likely to be skiing more challenging trees).

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Mike Rogan does not know what tree skiing is.