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Skid in slalom turn! HELP

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVSQfuREQSw

 

This is footage from second run at state finals. Please take a look at me left leg/ski during my right turns. Any tips to help correct that problem and clean up my carve would be much appreciated. Thanks

post #2 of 23

Hi Jeffery.  I moved you post, and sorry you didn't get replies where it was before.  Hopefully some of the pro coaches and instructors will reply to this and offer some help.  Welcome to Epicski.

post #3 of 23

I'm no expert in the gates but what i see in the top section is a lot of upper body rotary

which might be helping to start the turn but certainly hurts you as far as holding the turn.

 

keep your eye on the pole guards at the top of the course vs the flatter sections / flushes.

 

wait for the gates, move the hand forward

 

if you move it early, you tend to rotate teh upper body too much

 

 

(what do your coaches tell you?)

post #4 of 23

Good skiing,

 

Obvioulsy you are coached.  So in Phase 2 ("Establish the platform") you need to extend the ankles more, and quicker....while tipping less.

 

That may sound counterintuitive, but by extedning the ankles more, you will be applying pressure to the ball of the foot, this will engage the ski tip sooner...it will also enable you to be more centered to start the turn...by engaging the tip sooner, the platform will be there, for you to move inside on...currently you are moving in before the platform is established, this is causing you to loose pressure on the outside ski, as such it is not coming around, forcing you into that downstem.  Without an established platform really moving inside like the WC guys do is impossible without ending up on your ass.

 

Of note the issue doesnt exist on the flatter sections where the above is less critical, but when it gets steep and the setter increases the offset, and you need to turn more, technque flaws get ampliphied. 

 

As for this only being a right turn issue....not sure.  Obvioulsy in this video you do it more on the right turns, but you also do it on the "rushed" left turns at the top as well....so to me that is further evidence that the issue is you are trying to skip phase 2 and just move straight to phase 3...not possible when you really need to lay it over.

post #5 of 23

jstaten,

 

You don't by chance have a heel lift in your left boot for some reason do you?

 

Watching the video in slo-mo there is certainly quite a asymmetry between your right and left footer turns.  The left footers begin with a very flat ski and pivoting which could be indicative of an over-canted situation?  I have seen this type of issue stem from too much ramp angle as well.  Either way it may be worth having your alignment assessed and eliminating any issues there before focusing on technique issues.

 

Good luck,

bud

post #6 of 23

J,

 

I like your skiing through the flats & flushes :).  I will make a tactical suggestion.  On the steeper sections try aiming a little higher & wider of the gate.  This will allow you to get edge & pressure earlier in the turn to your outside ski, make a more carved arc & stay ahead of the course.  LeMaster calls it "targeting the apex".  In other words, point your skis less at the gate which causes you to skid & turn late.

 

JF

post #7 of 23

Jeff,

 

On the steeper part of the course, you are skiing from your heels. On your left foot turns, you can actually see a small wedge develop in your turn. Keep your weight on the balls of your feet, engage the tips of your skis early in the turn with your shins parallel and let your upper body go inside the gate letting the shin guards do their thing. I know, easy to say and harder to do but, this is what I would have you work on next season. Good luck!

 

Karl

post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 

You're correct I am coached, but only at the high school level, i appreciate what my coaches do but they have gotten me as far as they can take me. And at this point i'm obviously not satisfied with my skiing. Thats why i posted my question here.

 

As far as i know when you say tipping, as far as i know tipping=bad haha and tipping typically=fall which=disappointment.

Could you please elaborate on the "extend the ankles more" i'm not quite sure i fully understand that. Does this mean i should focus on letting my feet run out from under me, making it more of a cross under transition instead of a center of mass cross over?

 

When you say establish the plateform are you referring to building strong form from the feet up ankles>knees,hips?

 

Also i believe the "moving in part" with better platform you mentioned would help with my reaching issue which would also help me from loosing the tails of my skis?

 

I'm open any feedback, i have all summer to think about it!

Thanks

 

 

 

post #9 of 23

I'm in the asymmetry viewpoint  These are still shots but fairly compelling. (touching pictures are the same gate)

 

could be canting/alignment.  or flexibility and range of motion

 

Your right ski doesnt match up with the left until well below the gate on left footers.

 

On your better turns your right hand is ready for the gate sooner.

On the others it seems later.

 

Even in the still shots the right footers look like you are aggressively skiing through the gates

Left footer look like you are skiing around the gates.

 

SL_turns.tif

post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstaten View Post


As far as i know when you say tipping, as far as i know tipping=bad haha and tipping typically=fall which=disappointment.

 

When I wrote "tipping" I meant inclination.  Or leaning into begin the turn.  Inclination is how we start the turn, so that is good, but too much, or too soon is bad because it unnessarily takes pressure away from the outside ski.  We must tip inside some, or inclinate, but no more, and no sooner then necessary to maintain lateral balance.

Could you please elaborate on the "extend the ankles more" i'm not quite sure i fully understand that. Does this mean i should focus on letting my feet run out from under me, making it more of a cross under transition instead of a center of mass cross over?

 

Not really, extend the ankles means really just that, think of pushing down on a gas pedal of a car with your outside foot to start the turn, your foot wont actually move that much, but it will place pressure on the ball of the foot, which will be transmitted to the ski's forebody, which will get the tip engaged sooner, so the carve starts earlier.

 

When you say establish the plateform are you referring to building strong form from the feet up ankles>knees,hips?

 

Yes, it is important that you move from a balanced position.  It appears you are moving inside on the right turns before the skis have engaged, as such you are losing pressure, on them, so they dont engage, so the only way you can avoid falling inside is to increase the steering angle hoping they come around, but that just forces the downstem. 

 

Also i believe the "moving in part" with better platform you mentioned would help with my reaching issue which would also help me from loosing the tails of my skis?

 

Yes, because the skis will be engaged as you move inside, so they will turn with you, and you wont need to make the downstem.  Just carving.

 

I'm open any feedback, i have all summer to think about it!

Thanks

 

 

 



 

post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post

I'm in the asymmetry viewpoint  These are still shots but fairly compelling. (touching pictures are the same gate)

 

could be canting/alignment.  or flexibility and range of motion

 

Your right ski doesnt match up with the left until well below the gate on left footers.

 

On your better turns your right hand is ready for the gate sooner.

On the others it seems later.

 

Even in the still shots the right footers look like you are aggressively skiing through the gates

Left footer look like you are skiing around the gates.

 

SL_turns.tif




I dont agree.

 

When assessing skiers, you cant be selective about this turn or that.  You must assess the whole run.  If the issue was alignment, then it should be prevelant in all turns.  It isnt.  Only the upper section does this issue appear.  From the bottom half of the course:

 

1.png2.png3.png4.png5.png6.png

 

 

I just dont see any glaring asymetry here.  Thus the issues up top on the steeper more technical sections must be from something else. 

 

 

post #12 of 23

I agree that steeper vs flatter is a bigger impact than left vs right.

 

 

But don't you agree that on the steep part left footers look different than the steep right footers?

post #13 of 23

I thought it was pretty good skiing.  There's a little asymmetry, but I don't think it's a big deal. On your left footed turns, think about pulling the right foot back underneath you and driving the right knee into the turn...you're a little a-framed. i think your turns on the flat are fine.  On the steep, you're a little late with the pressure.  Once you're past the gate, that turn is done. Go to neutral, get to the "upside down traverse" so you get on the new edge before the fall line, and pressure it early. Tactically, don't think about going past the gate and then turning.  Instead, aim out, turn down the hill.  It'll seem like you're going to be too round, but if you're on the new edge and pressuring it at the rise line, you'll get most of the arc done above the gate and come back to it so you can cross block it normally...

post #14 of 23

As SkiRacer points out, even though its a left footed turn in question:

 

             "This is footage from second run at state finals. Please take a look at me left leg/ski during my right turns.

               Any tips to help correct that problem and clean up my carve would be much appreciated. Thanks"

 

it may more that your right foot is the source of the issue; the left foot is where the impact is more noticeable

 

 

One footed skiing on your inside ski (little toe edge) might be a good diagnostic / drill

post #15 of 23

J, Good skiing.

 

When watching the video for the first time I noted your concern on the top third of the course and when you got into a rhythem it disappeared. It looks like in the first third you are rushing to get into a rhythem and those turns are tight. (and the right foot is late) 

 

If you look at your entrance or setup on the still photos take a glance at your inside knee in relation to the gate before the pole (or the rise line)  On the opposite side you are a bit wider and your inside knee is on the rise line. thus get your feet set better for the turn. 

 

Compare that to the side your concerned with.  

post #16 of 23

It's very decent skiing! IMO SkiRacer55 is on the right track. As you move into the left footers you are not releasing the right ski early enough. This results in the stem and delay in angle development. The question is why that's so. It could be alignment, but I don't think so. I'd work on stronger tipping of the new inside ski onto its LTE simultaneously flexing that leg and pulling the foot back with your hamstrings. This gets the new inside hip forward. How good are you at White Pass Lean turns? Different one side to the other? Or tracers?

post #17 of 23

nice skiing,

youve clearly been wrking hard with it, lots of great advice here from some very helpful and decent folk,

good luckwith your racing

post #18 of 23

There is a lot of feedback in this thread, some more relevant than others. I'll simply add that if you pause the video at any point of contact with the gate, you can see that your head is only slightly inside the gate line, or even with it. There are two keys to skiing fast in slalom, don't skid, and try and get your CoM down the hill as directly as possible. These two factors can work against one another, and that's the challenge, but the point is, if you can keep the skis running cleanly, the more you can get your torso inside the corridor, the more direct path your CoM will take. You reach for the gate and over-rotate because you don't want the gate to smack you in the head, face guard or not. By gettting deeper inside the gate line, you won't have that worry, you can reduce reaching and it will help you maintain enough upper/lower body separation to be able to develop strong angles. Getting your CoM more inside the corridor means changing up the line and better mechanics, but that's another story.

post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the tips yet im still struggling this is gopro footage idk if it helps but i thought id share it.
post #20 of 23

this looks like my free skiing (in my mind) in the imbalance sense, I'm learning a whole lot.  Keep it coming....please

post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
post #22 of 23

How about more shin/tongue in the steeps and then do what SkiDude said.

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardDaysNight View PostI'd work on stronger tipping of the new inside ski onto its LTE simultaneously flexing that leg and pulling the foot back with your hamstrings. This gets the new inside hip forward. How good are you at White Pass Lean turns? Different one side to the other? Or tracers?

 

I agree with this. Think of it like riding a dirt bike, only you're countersteering with your inside hip instead of your inside hand. Also, when you get the inside hip forward (technically called 'counter'), you'll be able to keep your upper body more upright.

 

When you hit the gate, your inside hip should be in front of your outside hip. There are dozens of illustrations on ronlemaster.com. http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/10-07-2012/index.html

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