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Boot heel issue

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

So I've been having this problem with ski boots all my life.

Whenever I buy a pair of boots that fit me , my  left foot will fit just fine until years later  its time to take the boots out and shoot them.

My right foot is another story. Whatever boots I buy the right heel will come loose within 20 days on snow.

I end up cranking the buckles to ankle crushing levels and that works for  bit but not for long.

I bought the Zipfit sock - it fits over your liner - and for about 4 days I was in Heaven....then the same thing; loose heel all over again.

So what do I do?

 

1) Do I buy the real Zip fit liners and just keep adding packing to them ?

2) Is there a way to tighten upthe shell back there? I'm thinking of McGuyering a clamp back on the outside of the boot to squeeze it together, maybe after heating.

2) Get a different boot yet again and if so what brand do you recommend

3) Other

 

 

 

post #2 of 23

I was thinking some Intuition liners would work to fix that issue.  If you don't know how to mold them yourself, find a shop that will do it for you.  After molding them to your foot, my heel hold is crazy good.

post #3 of 23

As an old long time advanced skier, I have always tweaked and modified my ski boots cheaply to get a better snug fit.  Of course one can bring a boot down to a few of the well known and experienced ski shops that will do the best job.   My size 8 foot is low volume, low instep, so I always have issues.  Neoprene is a good material to fill out extra space by simply duct taping it around an inner boot   Buy various thickness scraps from dive wetsuit shops.   There are lots of distributers selling sheets but not at low cheap volume.

 

Just received my web ordered new wonderfully blue 26.5 sized Lange RS 110 SC boots and they fit almost perfectly.  So probably won't bother getting a pro thermal form fit of the inner boot.    There is an expected space above my instep.  Thus will add a bit of thin neoprene sheeting duct taped to the top of my inner boot tonight.

 

dave

post #4 of 23

I have had a similar problem. Perhaps like me, your left foot has a high instep and your right foot a low one.

 

At the suggestion of several of the better boot fitters in the Northeast, tried C-pads, J-Pads, L-pads, padding around the entire liner, (and a host of other things I've since forgotten) to no avail. Then one day, totally frustrated I walked into Inner Boot Works at Stowe. They handed me a crudely shaped piece of 3/8 inch memory foam to put in between my boot tongue and my sock. It was more or less the same shape of the tongue and just long enough to just get into the place where the tongue curves (it didn't reach the top of my foot); I don't know why or how, but that fixed it! 

 

Six years (and another pair of boots) later, I still use with a similar piece of foam in my right boot. I'm sure there is a more permanent or elegant solution, but this works for me.

 

 

 

 

 

post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garylk View Post

I have had a similar problem. Perhaps like me, your left foot has a high instep and your right foot a low one.

 

At the suggestion of several of the better boot fitters in the Northeast, tried C-pads, J-Pads, L-pads, padding around the entire liner, (and a host of other things I've since forgotten) to no avail. Then one day, totally frustrated I walked into Inner Boot Works at Stowe. They handed me a crudely shaped piece of 3/8 inch memory foam to put in between my boot tongue and my sock. It was more or less the same shape of the tongue and just long enough to just get into the place where the tongue curves (it didn't reach the top of my foot); I don't know why or how, but that fixed it! 

 

Six years (and another pair of boots) later, I still use with a similar piece of foam in my right boot. I'm sure there is a more permanent or elegant solution, but this works for me.

 

 

 

 

 




Interesting, I'll try it

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post

I was thinking some Intuition liners would work to fix that issue.  If you don't know how to mold them yourself, find a shop that will do it for you.  After molding them to your foot, my heel hold is crazy good.



Why are you rec commending intuition over zipfit? I was leaning more towards zip fit so I can add filling to them.

post #7 of 23

I have had chronic heel lift myself, and recently bought Zipfits from Footloose in Mammoth. Heel lift GONE! I had some extra material pumped into my right liner because it wasn't as snug as the left, but that's it so far. I do like that you can add material to the Zipfits and it molds and fills the gaps like putty. Good stuff!

post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by contesstant View Post

I have had chronic heel lift myself, and recently bought Zipfits from Footloose in Mammoth. Heel lift GONE! I had some extra material pumped into my right liner because it wasn't as snug as the left, but that's it so far. I do like that you can add material to the Zipfits and it molds and fills the gaps like putty. Good stuff!


How many days have you skied on them so far?

 

post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_SSS View Post

As an old long time advanced skier, I have always tweaked and modified my ski boots cheaply to get a better snug fit.  Of course one can bring a boot down to a few of the well known and experienced ski shops that will do the best job.   My size 8 foot is low volume, low instep, so I always have issues.  Neoprene is a good material to fill out extra space by simply duct taping it around an inner boot   Buy various thickness scraps from dive wetsuit shops.   There are lots of distributers selling sheets but not at low cheap volume.

 

Just received my web ordered new wonderfully blue 26.5 sized Lange RS 110 SC boots and they fit almost perfectly.  So probably won't bother getting a pro thermal form fit of the inner boot.    There is an expected space above my instep.  Thus will add a bit of thin neoprene sheeting duct taped to the top of my inner boot tonight.

 

dave



 

Dave what are some of those well known shops and are any of them in the NY area?g

post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiuk View Post


How many days have you skied on them so far?

 



7.

post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiuk View Post



Why are you rec commending intuition over zipfit? I was leaning more towards zip fit so I can add filling to them.


Because I have used Intuitions with really good results.  Consequently, never looked into zip fitswink.gif

 

post #12 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post


Because I have used Intuitions with really good results.  Consequently, never looked into zip fitswink.gif

 



Well that makes sense

post #13 of 23

thicker sock on the smaller foot?

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post

thicker sock on the smaller foot?



Done the sock thing  it worked for a run or two.

 

So here is the plan. First I'll try to reshape the shell by heating it and then using some clamps.

Then I'm thinking of chopping up an older pair of boots and then adding some material to the inside of my boots in the trouble spots to lower the volume in those areas

Then I'll also try to make a small but strong c clamp type of jig to add too the outside of the boot

Then I'll run a cable from the front of the boot to the back and add a buckle back there to keep my heel locked back.

I'm thinking of somehow combining the last two steps.

 

post #15 of 23

How much room do you have when you shell fit?  Is it possible your boots are too big?  Technique may also have something to do with it.  If you get in the back seat your foot is forced forward in the boot and your heel can then lift.  Since most of us don't turn the same in both directions that could explain why your problem is with one foot. I assume you've added padding to the liners just above the heels on either side of the foot.

post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

How much room do you have when you shell fit?  Is it possible your boots are too big?  Technique may also have something to do with it.  If you get in the back seat your foot is forced forward in the boot and your heel can then lift.  Since most of us don't turn the same in both directions that could explain why your problem is with one foot. I assume you've added padding to the liners just above the heels on either side of the foot.



Yeah it's very  possible my right boot is too big but I'm pretty sure I don't lean back quite the opposite. No, padding anymore,  all the crap I added over the years to various boots never worked for more than a few runs so  I no longer  use it but I did buy the zipfit pullover as a precursor to buying the liner. It was very promising for a few days so I will also get their liners

Yes you are correct in that my right leg is my strong leg and  that boot probably gets at least about 15%-25% more use

post #17 of 23

An alternative to extra padding at the heel between liner and shell is to create a sock that is thicker in the heel. This is done by cutting the front off a sock and then sewing the rear section of the sock to the original sock.

post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_SSS View Post
...There is an expected space above my instep.  Thus will add a bit of thin neoprene sheeting duct taped to the top of my inner boot tonight....

 

dave


Jiuk,

 

from your description, and without seeing anything, the 1st place I'd look is the instep. no matter how tight the heel holddown will be, if you are not getting a good fit over the instep the foot will slide forward slightly and allow lift. And it's not about 'backseat'; just the higher forces/pressure at the heel will drive the foot forward until things are equalized at the instep - at which point the heel lifts easier. Cranking #2 & #3 buckle doesn;t usually do the trick, except to pinch the shell.

are you using real footbeds? or just that foam crap that comes with the boot? get some real footbeds.

In getting a tighter fit at the instep (without major mods or making boot entry problematic) I prefer to shim the entire liner - like so - http://www.tognar.com/bontex-insole-shims/

if it works, I lightly contact cement the shim to the board so it doesn't shift..

since the left boot seems to fit OK, it's likely you'll not have to make further fit adjustments to the instep area, for comfort), once you've gotten it better snugged down.

very cheap, and longterm but not permanent, fix if that's the issue.

 

BTW: 1 pr of 1/16" shims, left back to back = 1/8" shim - so you can adjust ONE boot in 1/16 increments from 1/16 to 3/8 with just having a/one set of each size...

post #19 of 23

I'm not a boot fitter, just a customer with a lot of experience with oversized boots and heel lift. As moreoutdoor says, foot beds might help, if you don't already have them. Be aware that footbeds fitted non weight bearing will shorten you foot, and make an oversize shell problem worse, if the shell fit is already on the loose side (you didn't say).  Some people mold footbeds weight bearing, which won't shorten the foot, but won't help a loose instep as much, unless the footbed is also thicker than stostock.  The reason I mentioned riding stance is that I used to get heel lift in powder with my Mantras--a ski renowned for tip dive--but the problem went away with sidestashes, with early rise tips, which I can ski with a more hard-snow stance.     

post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moreoutdoor View Post


Jiuk,

 

from your description, and without seeing anything, the 1st place I'd look is the instep. no matter how tight the heel holddown will be, if you are not getting a good fit over the instep the foot will slide forward slightly and allow lift. And it's not about 'backseat'; just the higher forces/pressure at the heel will drive the foot forward until things are equalized at the instep - at which point the heel lifts easier. Cranking #2 & #3 buckle doesn;t usually do the trick, except to pinch the shell.

are you using real footbeds? or just that foam crap that comes with the boot? get some real footbeds.

In getting a tighter fit at the instep (without major mods or making boot entry problematic) I prefer to shim the entire liner - like so - http://www.tognar.com/bontex-insole-shims/

if it works, I lightly contact cement the shim to the board so it doesn't shift..

since the left boot seems to fit OK, it's likely you'll not have to make further fit adjustments to the instep area, for comfort), once you've gotten it better snugged down.

very cheap, and longterm but not permanent, fix if that's the issue.

 

BTW: 1 pr of 1/16" shims, left back to back = 1/8" shim - so you can adjust ONE boot in 1/16 increments from 1/16 to 3/8 with just having a/one set of each size...


 

Thanks Moreoutdoor,

 

I'm just using the 'foam crap" that comes with the shell. You are right cranking down the #2 & #3 buckle to the point of shoulder dislocation does nothing but pinch the shell. I do have issues with high arches so you are probably on to something.

OK so do I go back to my orthipedist and get another pair of footbeds or are the ones they make at  my running store good enough?

post #21 of 23


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiuk View Post

Thanks Moreoutdoor,

 

I'm just using the 'foam crap" that comes with the shell. You are right cranking down the #2 & #3 buckle to the point of shoulder dislocation does nothing but pinch the shell. I do have issues with high arches so you are probably on to something.

OK so do I go back to my orthipedist and get another pair of footbeds or are the ones they make at  my running store good enough?


just to be clear, there were 2 things - the footbeds are overall improvements to foot positioning in the boot, the other main thing is to try neutral shims under the liner to reduce the overall space at the instep.

whether you go custom or off the shelf footbeds is really a decision you need to make - you're the only one who can decide.

there are a number of off-the-shelf which are pretty good - there's a fairly recent thread on epic on footbeds. worth the read.

I used to have custom for years, but recently tried the superfeet Reds, after the customs were deemed 'tired'. I like them, a few small mods and I'm really happy with them.

but do try what's available. I would avoid the stuff you find in the chain drug stores, like the squishy Dr Scholl or other gel stuff.

best to get the footbed thing sortted before you start playing with shims - the footbeds will have an affect on how much shimming is needed.

 

Shims - you can get those at togner, or cut some similar from some non-compressible materials, just use the liner as a cutting template. Ideally, they should be an even thickness from toe to heel. A heel wedge will change the foot/leg attitude in the boot and if not done on both boots will likely screw up your skiing.

good luck

 

if you have to shim much more than 1/8 inch thickness, then you might just be in too large of a boot or you might be better served by a boot with a different config/fit.  But, hey, shims are cheap and might get you thru the season enough so you can make further decisions.


Edited by moreoutdoor - 3/9/12 at 10:39pm
post #22 of 23

I have tiny heel and achilles tendon area, prominent ball and wide forefooot. 

 

The best solution I have ever encountered is double-stacked (or maybe it was tripple-stacked) custom foam boots.  Basically shell sized as small as possible, and forced as much foam into the liners as physically possible.  There will be a few days of very tight boots after which it is very important to return for work on problem areas of boot AND LINER to relieve tightness in specific areas (heel isn't one of them).

 

Get some good foot beds while you are at it. I find Superfeet Kork works best for me, but it is a little less comfy landing hard on boiler plate, especially if you have abused your heels in the past.  If the boots are too big for your small foot, get smaller boots and stretch for the big foot.

 

 

post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moreoutdoor View Postyou might just be in too large of a boot or you might be better served by a boot with a different config/fit.  But, hey, shims are cheap and might get you thru the season enough so you can make further decisions.


 

Guess I should have specified this first, I'm on Head Raptor LTD.

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