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Frontside carver for the east coast - Page 2

post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 


A front side carver is a ski that can carve pure arc-2-arc pencil thin lines in the snow while pulling serious g-forces.  A slalom ski can do that up to about 30 ish mph.  A GS ski can do that at the larger radii that will come with higher speeds, but will have difficulty doing so at small radii.  A cheater GS ski at say 16 to 20 m radius is a half decent compromise.  It all depends on how fast you want to ski.  Just as a point of reference, pulling a 2g turn at 25 mph would equate to a turn radius of about 6.5 m, but at 50 mph it equates to a turn radius of about 25.5 m. (note that is the radius of the turn, close to that dialed up by tipping the ski, not the sidecut radius).

 

Ghost, I was surprised recently to read that average FIS slalom speeds are higher than this, up in the low 40's. OTOH, mine aren't, ah, quite that fast, so I can only surmise about G's. :o

 

bttocs, go check out Ligety here, notice what a deep flex he's getting, not riding anything, but the G's are evident from the angles he needs to stay stacked: http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/sochi-olympics/giant-slalom.html Nope, we can't ski like Ted, but he's a perfect demo of the physics of a wonderful GS turn. By contrast, check out MS, who shows how good modern SL involves a decent portion of each turn devoted to non-carving, with a little pivot, some steps etc: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/21/sports/olympics/womens-slalom-results.html It's too fast to carve a complete round turn. 

 

levy1, IMO the Rossi in that list is the most forgiving by far, then the RX12, then the Volkl and Blizzard R-Power, close and getting into the less versatile but better at real speed category. Cannot comment on the rest, except that one of them (Blizzard Mag GS) appears to be the WC version, which will be seriously more demanding, and probably a handful off course. Ghost may enjoy skiing GS on civilian slopes, but for those of us who believe in human neurological data and physics, either you safely ski a real GS at 1/2 its potential - which is like only driving a Ferrari around a big city on surface streets - or you ski it in its pleasure range, which makes you a menace to other people on the slope.  But lots of people drive exotic cars exclusively around places with traffic lights and cops, so who am I to say? 

post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 


A front side carver is a ski that can carve pure arc-2-arc pencil thin lines in the snow while pulling serious g-forces.  A slalom ski can do that up to about 30 ish mph.  A GS ski can do that at the larger radii that will come with higher speeds, but will have difficulty doing so at small radii.  A cheater GS ski at say 16 to 20 m radius is a half decent compromise.  It all depends on how fast you want to ski.  Just as a point of reference, pulling a 2g turn at 25 mph would equate to a turn radius of about 6.5 m, but at 50 mph it equates to a turn radius of about 25.5 m. (note that is the radius of the turn, close to that dialed up by tipping the ski, not the sidecut radius).

 

Ghost, I was surprised recently to read that average FIS slalom speeds are higher than this, up in the low 40's. OTOH, mine aren't, ah, quite that fast, so I can only surmise about G's. :o

 

bttocs, go check out Ligety here, notice what a deep flex he's getting, not riding anything, but the G's are evident from the angles he needs to stay stacked: http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/sochi-olympics/giant-slalom.html Nope, we can't ski like Ted, but he's a perfect demo of the physics of a wonderful GS turn. By contrast, check out MS, who shows how good modern SL involves a decent portion of each turn devoted to non-carving, with a little pivot, some steps etc: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/21/sports/olympics/womens-slalom-results.html It's too fast to carve a complete round turn. 

 

levy1, IMO the Rossi in that list is the most forgiving by far, then the RX12, then the Volkl and Blizzard R-Power, close and getting into the less versatile but better at real speed category. Cannot comment on the rest, except that one of them (Blizzard Mag GS) appears to be the WC version, which will be seriously more demanding, and probably a handful off course. Ghost may enjoy skiing GS on civilian slopes, but for those of us who believe in human neurological data and physics, either you safely ski a real GS at 1/2 its potential - which is like only driving a Ferrari around a big city on surface streets - or you ski it in its pleasure range, which makes you a menace to other people on the slope.  But lots of people drive exotic cars exclusively around places with traffic lights and cops, so who am I to say? 

Byhond, great info, thanks, would you call the Rossi a soft SL for a good skier?

post #33 of 43

Hmmm. Not really. Depends. The ski on Ghost's list that you copied is the Radical 9 GS. That's Rossi's rec racer/high speed cruiser. They also make the 9SL. Both are excellent carvers for good skiers; Ski Canada in particular reviews them regularly if you're interested. (Which can be considered a hint to do some homework.) They would work for beer league. But if you mean Rossi's WC SL, not any more. Back in the day, pre-Body, Rossi's were a softer flexing race line. Nowadays, think it's maybe average in flex, but IME and from coaches I've talked to, there's also less variation in flex for consumer WC skis. Sort of Heads for the manly men (or women) and then a loose clump of everyone else, and then maybe Volkls as flexiest. But I'd pick racing skis on the basis of feel, how their handling fits your style, intangibles like comfort and confidence rather than flex index per se. I honestly believe technique, conditioning + sheer luck wins races, not brand. YMMV, other's will I'm sure. 

post #34 of 43

Any Rossi GS that I have been able to get my hands on has always seemed sort of ok, not too demanding, but nothing worth writing home about performance wise either.  Maybe the Rossi GS skis that racers on the WC get to ski are different.  Rossi SLs used to be a heck of a lot of fun on the hill for making very quick turns effortlessly, but didn't have enough stability at speed.  Apparently Rossi was listening to complaints and stiffened them up substantially a few years back.  I haven't gotten a chance to ski the newer one, but going by hand flexing in the store, it is obviously a higher strung horse.


Edited by Ghost - 3/25/14 at 5:36pm
post #35 of 43

Yep ^^^ I have the 2007 SL's, not actually used until 2011, but last model before Body started gluing together guys from RD, actually nice groomer ski for firm days if you stay out of bumps. So obviously not a threat to modern design. Hand flexed a pair of 2014's this past weekend; more substantial. Bit firmer flex in all directions, but way different pattern, more at the tip and tail. The R20 plate may be part of this, compared to my original I Box from billet alu. See why they want the early rise now. And definitely not for bumps. Back here they and Fischers are pretty popular for lighter racers, while the bigger bodies go with Head or Atomic. 

post #36 of 43
The rosssy 9sl get tremendous write ups for a piste ski
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Yep ^^^ I have the 2007 SL's, not actually used until 2011, but last model before Body started gluing together guys from RD, actually nice groomer ski for firm days if you stay out of bumps. So obviously not a threat to modern design. Hand flexed a pair of 2014's this past weekend; more substantial. Bit firmer flex in all directions, but way different pattern, more at the tip and tail. The R20 plate may be part of this, compared to my original I Box from billet alu. See why they want the early rise now. And definitely not for bumps. Back here they and Fischers are pretty popular for lighter racers, while the bigger bodies go with Head or Atomic. 
post #37 of 43

Yes they do. The message you quoted ^^^ is about the WC SL's, but the 9 SL's have always been a great ski for everything from recreational racing to just handling hardback with lotsa small turns. I've owned a couple over the years. 

post #38 of 43

Yup... Really like my 9sl...doesn't have the power of the stockli laser sl fis but can be much more versatile... you can be relax on them or open up the machine and they will respond...

post #39 of 43
Are you talking about 9sl ti funny nose? If so what size and what weight
post #40 of 43

170 cm for 6 feet;210 pounds

post #41 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

Are you talking about 9sl ti funny nose? If so what size and what weight

The funny nose is a tip protector against hitting gates. And SL's are supposed to be short; you'd be good for 165 max. Which makes them quick to react to input, and gives you very little fore-aft margin for error. Either stay out of the backseat or crash. A 175cm 75mm carver feels like a barge after spending time on a SL. 

post #42 of 43

Fischer Progressor 950.  Bought it this year and would never go back.  Dual radius is easy to feel; drive the tips and they come right around (13M radius); ski them from the middle and they carve long-ish arcs (17M).  They are not so stiff that they are a handful in the moguls.  I ski them 50/50 groomed and ungroomed at Magic Mountain, VT.  They're great when the snow is hard and my wider skis can't get a grip.

 

Haven't monkeyed with the adjustable rebound control...seems gimmicky.

 

For reference, I'm 6'0" and 190 or a little lighter.

post #43 of 43

For what it's worth was just at a college race. Male racers, 2, on Head slaloms considered it a noodle. ie, soft. They don't get the beefy ones they do in Europe apparently.

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