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skis for coaching - Page 3

post #61 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

IMO, instructors should ski the most technically demanding ski they can master in order to 1) produce quality demos and 2) improve their own skiing during lessons rather than regressing with sloppy movements on forgiving skis.


 

ever carve a turn on rockered skis? the movement required to do so have to be pretty damn precise. Any mistake and they will ski because that is what they want to do. 

post #62 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat View Post

As a coach and a parent  -  I hate it when my kids coaches wear twin tips.  DRESS THE PART.  Race skis = Race.  Twin Tips = Park and makes kids want to duck into the park.  Not good.

 

DRESS THE PART.  You want to be a coach - look like one. Parents pay big $$ for PRO coaching.  Not part time park and pow rats.

 

 I like SL skis myself.  Good for demo and tuff enought to hop in the course.  Small enough for skating and setting etc.  GS if I know I can grab some runs in the course.

 

If you are skiing backward in race training - get your athletes on a PITCH and face front.nonono2.gif

Why have randonee boots often been referred to as 'Coaching Boots'????

 

Any schmuck can go buy a pair of race stock skis and a plug boot, get a fruity looking Karbon suit and look the part. Good coaches make their protege's better. It's actually fairly simple.
 

 

post #63 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

Why have randonee boots often been referred to as 'Coaching Boots'????

 


Because race coaches don't actually ski?

post #64 of 89

 

 

Quote:
Why have randonee boots often been referred to as 'Coaching Boots'????

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post


Because race coaches don't actually ski?


 

They Teleduck.gif

post #65 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post

Josh,

 

Those cases are rare.  Is the student training as a disciplined athlete (in spirit, if not in actual competition) or for recreation?  Does the coach/instructor know how to develop an athlete to a highly competitive level of performance in the sport?  If you pass both tests, use the title.  But for an entire ski school to use the title for its instructors is disingenuous.


 

You're making quite a distinction between the term 'coach', and 'instructor'. Honestly, I don't see that there is such a significant difference. In a previous life, I worked in aquatics.While running aquatics programs, I had to fill the roles of both a swim instructor, and a swim team coach. In those two roles, I was essentially doing the same thing. I was teaching and refining physical skills and movement patterns. Did it make a difference if the kid in front of me was taking a swim class, or was on my swim team? No. I was doing the same things.

post #66 of 89

How many debates are going on at once in here!?

 

My point earlier on wasn't to attack the PSIA or say that all instructors in the states are poor instructors, of course there are some great ones, but the fact is that there is a lot of people instructing in the US who will only ever do it for 1 or 2 seasons, or at the weekends for a pass, and thus never have the opportunity to become good instructors, or even good skiers. It's just not possible to have instructors of the same calibre as the French or Italian systems where you have to be a good skier to start with, then invest time and money into becoming a good instructor before you can even get a job. Btw, I don't have US or Euro certs, but I have worked in both places.

 

Josh, I don't really see the problem in teaching on fis legal skis, I didn''t say it was ideal though. Maybe you can demo well enough on twintips, but an awful lot of instructors can't or don't, and it kind of pisses me off when I see people teaching skidding around on twintips. As I've said, I've done it for quite a few seasons, and in the end didn't like it all that much. I don't really see how that sounds dumb or unrealistic.

 

Re. coaching/instructing, it's a fine line, I wouldn't say someone teaching beginners was a coach, that's clearly instruction, but if I have kids coming back every week, skiing at a high level and looking to compete, then that's coaching. I have coaching and instructing certifications, but my job title says ski instructor, so I call myself an instructor.

post #67 of 89

Coaching vs instructing.

 

As a full time instructor last year - (yes my first year -  Level 3 PSIA Whoo hoo) there was  BIG difference between that and coaching HS racing for 7 years. 

 

I found instructing to be 80% Never Evers and level 1s and 2s.  20% were more advanced privates or semi privates.  I spent he vast majority of my time on bunny slopes and picking people up off the ground.  Did not need race skis for this.  This was not "coaching."  This was instructing.  I also did school groups where I met with the same kids each week.  These were more 3-4-5s.  Was that coaching? Eh - mostly babysitting and trying to keep the kids from sneaking off to the park or arcade.  For the most part, the kids did not care about getting better or faster.  I was only there for liabiliy reasons.  So was I coaching?  That said, my name tage did and does say "Coach Pat."  Kids need authority and role models.  I usually taught in 165cm SL skis.  Last year -as an INSTRUCTOR - these "race" skis were covered with sports. princess, starwars and butterfly stickers.  But they allowed me to demo very pretty PSIAxy turns on our usual hardpack.

 

This year my own kids are involved in he race program and I coach J4s (yes for the pass and the pittance) and to spend time with my sons.  These are all level 6++ kids. They ALL train on race skis.  That said, our little Mt does not have much off piste or glade terrain.  (none)  I wear a team jacket (yes Karbon) the Mt provides, and my one concession to vanity (and utility) is an expensive (on sale at Artech for $200) Spider coaching bib.  So yes they are (and look) cool.  Parents are paying for cool looking coaches.  Yes good coaching and results, but also POSITIVE AND PROFESSIONAl role modeling.  One of my (very young) colleagues dresses like a bum.  He is a good skier and a good kid, but as a parent - this pi$$e$ me off to no end :(

 

I recently visted Burke Mt in Vt with my sons.  Burke has a first class training facility and dedicated race hill.  It is STEEP.  The kids train on the steeps and become fearless.  Yes they also spend a lot of time in the woods as, yes, this builds confidence and they have awesome terrain for this.  Guess what?  They wore twin tips in the woods.  They would NEVER wear these training on a steep icy course.  Not smart.  Not safe.  Not effective in teaching proper movements.

 

Finally - What kind of serious racer or coach only has one pair of skis?  I have at least 4 in the rotation right now and that is low for me.  SL, Training GS, Rock, and Adult League GS racing skis.  As for expense - if you are "in the biz" great deals, hand me downs, pro-forms and back room deals provide more skis than you should realistically be able to handle.  You don play golf with one club or fish for stripers with the same 3wt you use for brook trout.  As for laying down properly carved turns on NE boilerplate on fatties or TTs...well I am calling BS on that.  Prob same guy who tunes his skis every other year and claims to be able to "set an edge" (forward or backward)   ;)

 

I do not mean to disparage instructors. I am one. Certainly there can be tons of overlap.  But there is a difference.  I pay (and am paid) for RACE COACHING athletes who are hungry and want to improve.  Want to ski in the woods?  Park?  Grab your twin tips and little buddies.  Want to look PSIAxy?  I can do that.  From China or India and want to try skiing for the first time?  I can do that too.  But it ain't coaching and yes .....sometime I do it backwards. :)

post #68 of 89


 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post


eh whatever? <snip> skiing backwards I can point direct and watch what is happening. 

 

When I ski forward I try not look back at all most people who tons of upper body rotation to do so. 

 

 

 

 



I've found this to be accurate while teaching this season.  

Also, when I ski backwards, I can get the student to look at me and not down at their skis. 

 

post #69 of 89
Thread Starter 
Do we all agree Europeans are better then?
post #70 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossymcg View Post

Do we all agree Europeans are better then?


Depends on what kind if skis they have.  This thread is about skis right?th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #71 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Depends on what kind if skis they have.  This thread is about skis right?th_dunno-1%5B1%5D.gif



 All interwebz threads are about being 'right'duel.gif

post #72 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossymcg View Post

Do we all agree Europeans are better then?
No.
post #73 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

No.



i was expecting a better rant than that,

but as a whole they must be because as stated earlier, stateside you have different levels, ie PSIA1, 2, 3. regardless of my skill level id only ever want the best qualified coach and in europe well the main 4(Italy, France, Swiss, Austria)i know thats exactly what i'll get and not some part time gap year student type wanna be, i know i'll get someone who knows all about the mountains, the history of the area, can ski back country, freestyle, trees bumps and can race,

i skied in Slovenia once, it was embarrasing i skied better than the instructor, she fell over twice in the lesson,i complained and got my money back,

 

post #74 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossymcg View Post

in europe well the main 4(Italy, France, Swiss, Austria)i know thats exactly what i'll get and not some part time gap year student type wanna be, i know i'll get someone who knows all about the mountains, the history of the area, can ski back country, freestyle, trees bumps and can race,


OK, but that premise is wrong. You are not guaranteed a top instructor in Europe. There clearly are gap-year students and the like teaching there. I know because I've paid for them myself. Where do you think the top instructors come from anyway? They all have to start somewhere.

post #75 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post



 All interwebz threads are about being 'right'duel.gif



And calling everyone else nazis!

 

post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post


OK, but that premise is wrong. You are not guaranteed a top instructor in Europe. There clearly are gap-year students and the like teaching there. I know because I've paid for them myself. Where do you think the top instructors come from anyway? They all have to start somewhere.



But my point was that in some countries (France and Italy), the starting point is already being a good skier, this is not the case in the US. In Switzerland and Austria there are people teaching at lower levels, but I would say on a whole there is a far higher percentage of professionals there than the States, because they actually get paid pretty well. Again, not attacking Americans and saying you are worse skiers per se, just that the system you have of ski schools making 100s of dollars whilst the instructors make barely more than minimum wage does not encourage people to see instructing as a career and improve their skills accordingly.

post #77 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Yep. Makes you sound like an angry pimply faced 15 year old and probably not befitting of your actual skills.

Since I've been reading Josh's posts here and at TGR for a long time -- ranging back to when HE was a pimply faced fat kid who didn't know how to ski AT ALL -- I have to say I'm tired of him always finding a way to brag on his skills (often indirectly; example several posts above where he talks about carving a rockered ski) and demean people as if he's the God of Off-Piste. His skiing videos show someone who is moderately skilled but surely not the guy he pretends to be.

Whether that spells Irony in view of your snark above? Probably an open question to some, but to me it's closed.

I can see how his increased skills would make him proud, but he over-does the pride -- constantly.
Edited by GrizzledVeteran - 3/8/12 at 11:57am
post #78 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post


Since I've been reading Josh's posts here and at TGR for a long time -- ranging back to when HE was a pimply faced fat kid who didn't know how to ski AT ALL -- I have to say I'm tired of him always finding a way to brag on his skills (often indirectly; example several posts above where he talks about carving a rockered ski) and demean people as if he's the God of Off-Piste. His skiing videos show someone who is moderately skilled but surely not the guy he pretends to be.
Whether that spells Irony in view of your snark above? Probably an open question to some, but to me it's closed.
I can see how his increased skills would make him proud, but he over-does the pride -- constantly.


uimm really I thought we past this, Uncle Crud? 

 

moderately skilled? again really? Not a single person on here could match my first video challenge. Not a single person and I gave a simple task, explained and everyone failed at it because its damn tough. Why do you not do some dolphin turns and show you can do something I can do it as well. 

 

Also did you just see this video of Pat skiing and complain about his sons coaches showing up on twin tips? again really? the guy has alot to learn and he could probably learn some of the COM movements he needs by skiing on a rockered ski he is so use to camber hooking up for him he has never learned how to really engage a ski. 

 

I do not pretend to be anyone, everyone who has ever skied with me would probably do it again in a heart beat. I also know my shit and only start to get pissed because my skull is thick with experince while others are thick with bias and dumb ideas. I have also always respect those who have respected me on here. 

 

So really Uncle Crud I wish a fair well from epic as this was probably your last post on here under that name. 

 

 

post #79 of 89


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post



uimm really I thought we past this, Uncle Crud? 

 

moderately skilled? again really? Not a single person on here could match my first video challenge. Not a single person and I gave a simple task, explained and everyone failed at it because its damn tough. Why do you not do some dolphin turns and show you can do something I can do it as well. 

 

Also did you just see this video of Pat skiing and complain about his sons coaches showing up on twin tips? again really? the guy has alot to learn and he could probably learn some of the COM movements he needs by skiing on a rockered ski he is so use to camber hooking up for him he has never learned how to really engage a ski. 

 

I do not pretend to be anyone, everyone who has ever skied with me would probably do it again in a heart beat. I also know my shit and only start to get pissed because my skull is thick with experince while others are thick with bias and dumb ideas. I have also always respect those who have respected me on here. 

 

So really Uncle Crud I wish a fair well from epic as this was probably your last post on here under that name. 

 

 



I think you missed the point, his post was about your lack of modesty and your self aggrandising attitude, you've responded by once again telling everyone how much you know and how good you are...


Edited by Jim. - 3/8/12 at 3:13pm
post #80 of 89

Heres a good joke...

Why does Josh ski differently than most coaches? Well it's simple physiology, his CoM seems to be above his shoulders...

 

Sorry Josh I couldn't resist using that old joke. No offense, I hope.

 

As far as teaching skis, every instructor in Aspen is tasked with owning beginner corral skis (nothing over 140 and no kiddie racing skis because adults can break them so easily). The thinking is the coach can be more accurate with their demos and the students relate to what they are seeing. Same goes for the switch issue. Show what you are teaching and after doing that demo step out of the spotlight and stay out of it as much as possible!

 

BTW, When it comes to coaching on the fly Josh, it isn't difficult as long as you stop leading (task / command) and start coaching (guided discovery / reciplrocal / problem solving). Skiing backwards in front of a group isn't doing any of that.

 

An additional organizational concern most line instructors don't consider is risk management. VRI for one, strongly discourages a focus split between where you are going and what you are watching. (it's a safety issue for the coach as well as a liablity issue for anyone you might hit). Collisions suck and in most cases are avoidable. Unless of course you have a second set of eyes in the back of your head. It really doesn't matter if you disagree with their mandates, on the clock your time isn't yours and violating company safety rules can seriously affect your comp and your job. Why do that?  

 

 

post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim. View Post


 



I think you missed the point, his post was about your lack of modesty and your self aggrandising attitude, you've responded by once again telling everyone how much you know and good you are...


its still a banned person from this site posting Again I put myself out there to be shot down in a legit way and not a single one of your internet know it all was able to do what I asked. 

 

Jim if came to you and asked for bumps lesson on your were on FIS GS skis what the hell are you going to teach me? what if someone wanted to ski woods with you here at stowe? I mean that ski is technical demanding so I bet I learn alot from you according to sharpedges.

 

You guys only hate me because I totally made you, pat and sharpedges look like fools, and I only did it because of how ridiculous what you guy was saying. do not say stupid stuff and you will never have a problem with me.  

 

JASP I have no ego, while teaching or skiing. I have none on here as well if you see it as I am only a vessel to even out things to being the truth. You also talking to me as if I do not know what i am doing. I am an L3 right? yep just looked at my Gold Pin and such seems to say so. I would have never gotten that gold pin if I did not know how to "coach" by your words.I guess thats another "how much I know and how good I am" thing right?  I ski backwards only to watch and point out thing to usually little kids.

 

I truly do not think I am going to make DCL, but if I do I can not wait, I can add another thing to the "how much I know and how good I am" list. using that on here would be great. 

 

 

 

 

post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post


its still a banned person from this site posting Again I put myself out there to be shot down in a legit way and not a single one of your internet know it all was able to do what I asked. 

 

Jim if came to you and asked for bumps lesson on your were on FIS GS skis what the hell are you going to teach me? what if someone wanted to ski woods with you here at stowe? I mean that ski is technical demanding so I bet I learn alot from you according to sharpedges.

 

You guys only hate me because I totally made you, pat and sharpedges look like fools, and I only did it because of how ridiculous what you guy was saying. do not say stupid stuff and you will never have a problem with me.  

 

JASP I have no ego, while teaching or skiing. I have none on here as well if you see it as I am only a vessel to even out things to being the truth. You also talking to me as if I do not know what i am doing. I am an L3 right? yep just looked at my Gold Pin and such seems to say so. I would have never gotten that gold pin if I did not know how to "coach" by your words.I guess thats another "how much I know and how good I am" thing right?  I ski backwards only to watch and point out thing to usually little kids.

 

I truly do not think I am going to make DCL, but if I do I can not wait, I can add another thing to the "how much I know and how good I am" list. using that on here would be great. 

 

 

 

 


 

I never advocated teaching on GS skis, I personally did for a bit, because I preferred skiing ice on those to my Gotamas (which I actually taught on most of the season, as I had nothing else). MY (as opposed to anyone else you might be referencing) only point was that I prefer to teach on carving skis, and that too many instructors skid around on twin tips. Pretty certain that I also said that if there was a lesson that required me to go get my twin tips, I would get my twin tips. 

 

I wouldn't say that I hate you, I'm sure that you're a nice enough dude in real life, but you need to calm down your bragging on here. Most people when they get their L3 realise that they still have a lot to learn, you seem to have taken it as confirmation that you are some sort of skiing god. 

post #83 of 89

This thread has been a most humorous read.

 

I thought I might learn about some equipment preferences,  International even.   but instead.. I am only reminded of a joke.

 

Q  "How to know when a ski instructor enters the bar"

 

A  "They will tell you"

 

And Josh has no ego...he said so!  ;-)

post #84 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim. View Post


 

I never advocated teaching on GS skis, I personally did for a bit, because I preferred skiing ice on those to my Gotamas (which I actually taught on most of the season, as I had nothing else). MY (as opposed to anyone else you might be referencing) only point was that I prefer to teach on carving skis, and that too many instructors skid around on twin tips. Pretty certain that I also said that if there was a lesson that required me to go get my twin tips, I would get my twin tips. 

 

I wouldn't say that I hate you, I'm sure that you're a nice enough dude in real life, but you need to calm down your bragging on here. Most people when they get their L3 realise that they still have a lot to learn, you seem to have taken it as confirmation that you are some sort of skiing god. 


I have tons to learn still do. 

 

that why I challenge every idea I disagree with see if my way stands up or if I can be convinced otherwise. I am not skiing god but if people started to try to cut you down only to cut you down you going to tell them otherwise. 

 

post #85 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post


I have tons to learn still do. 

 

that why I challenge every idea I disagree with see if my way stands up or if I can be convinced otherwise. I am not skiing god but if people started to try to cut you down only to cut you down you going to tell them otherwise. 

 


And that's fair enough, when my skills have been directly questioned in the past, I've posted photos to prove that I can do what I say, but it seems like you take any disagreement with your opinions as an affront to your skiing and then feel the need to tell people you are level 3 or a great skier or whatever. 

 

Anyway, this thread's changed topic too many times for me to keep up, what are we arguing about again?

post #86 of 89

Josh, While I agree with you about showing up on the appropriate gear, that idea seems to go out the window when you start talking about a forward skiing learning segment and skiing switch simply to view your students. What happened to skiing appropriate to the task? Especially with kids, we must avoid the do as I say, not as I do stuff. It's also taking more personal risk than is necessary. Not saying you would collide with something but unexpected things do occur and if you are not looking where you are going the possibility of colliding with someone, or something is much greater. We feel so strongly about this that it is written SOP to always look where you are going. I suspect somewhere along the line VRI got sued and in a courtroom full of non-skiers the analogy of looking out of the rear window as you drive was used. To bring that idea into everyday practice we teach our coaches alternatives that are not only safer, they encourage our staff to stop leading their classes around like a school bus driver.

 

As far as being a level 3 and what that means, well it plus four buck gets you coffee. So let go of the I know my shit stuff, it comes across very negatively. It also  suggests you are still growing into the role and not comfortable enough yet to let your teaching speak for you. Ski well my friend and have a good spring break. JASP

 

post #87 of 89

LOL, they should change the title of this thread from "skis for coaching" to "egos for posting".  Edit, just coined a new word.. "SKIgo"!

 

In b4 the lock


Edited by crgildart - 3/9/12 at 6:30am
post #88 of 89

Funny, I dont feel like a fool.  My skiing is not great.  My racing is less great.  Hell I was a wrestler in college and took up ski racing at 30.  So - I am not "The Josh" , but I am comfortable in my ability to coach young kids..  Comfortable enought to post my racing here here unashamedly.  Comfortable enought to ASK for help and invite criticism.  I want to ski better.  I want to coach better.  I want to learn.  Then I want to pass on what I know. 

 

Frontwards.

 

:)

post #89 of 89

The best coaches and instructors are/were almost NEVER the most talented and gifted athletes in the sport.  The best coaches and teachers are those that had to work much harder than the naturals to compete against them.

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