Newbie interested in racing Super G

Masters racing is a blast. Check it out here http://alpine.usskiteam.com/alpine/alpine-masters-programs

 

If you have Dish network, they now have Universal Sports on 9795 and 402.  Lots of World Cup Racing there.  universalsports.com also has Cup racing.

 

Pick a region, get a proper helmet (150) , suit (50-750) and poles (50-100) and appropriate skis (250-1250) and try out a Masters Super G.  You don't have to rip it your first try, just go check it out. You do not need a racing license for your first time.

 

Race Nastar a few times, see how you like it.

Yes, go for it,  As Snowfan pointed out Masters racing is a great way to go.  Regardless of your ability level you will always find some comparators in your age class you can use to compare your progress to.  As you improve you pick a different target!.  Also you will normally find that most racers are happy to help you out with advice.  After all, none of us are in it for the money, even if we will do our best to beat you after 3-2-1...... .  Super G is a blast, but a lot more technical than it might appear!   Doesn't stop you going for it tho!!!   In fact any speed ski is a real rush to ski on if you like going fast.  

 

And no, you are definitely not too old.  I was 50 when I ran my first Super G and my first DH...

 

Finally (shameless plug here as usual!  ) , I do have a cheap pair of 201 Salomon Super Gs available.......fast ski, but smooth enough that it will not kick your butt

Good places to start are Masters Racing and NASTAR.  Also look online for camps etc.

 

 

As for Super G.  I just dont agree with the above advice of "go for it".  While I realise you can control how fast you go....you can get serioulsy hurt..like dead.  I have been clocked at over 60mph in Super G.  Go off course at that speed, and you are serioulsy injured, or worse.   Sure there is nets etc, but you dont want to rely on them either.  Speed events are not the place to start racing.  Focus on GS.  GS is best place to start, and you will find it plenty fast, believe me.

 

 

I say go for it, but not right away.  Go through a masters training program at a resort, and train plenty of giant slalom.  Since you really have not skied much, make sure that you have the fundamentals to turn a ski at high speeds.  Once you (and perhaps your coaches) feel that you have progressed, move onto Super G.

 

I raced in my teens and did a ski club league.  Each year in the club circuit, we had an annual Super G.  It was the event that I looked forward for.  I'll probably start up racing again next year, so I could ski the Super G again.  The speeds that are attained are additicting.

 

Good luck.

 

Dennis

Listen to skidude's advice. He's spot on the money about starting with GS which is plenty fast when you're just starting out. +1 on finding a race camp.

KG4ONJ,

 

Wide range of information shared here so far...   Nastar is the best place to start IMO. Nastar courses are usually 20-25 seconds, Masters are 1 minute+-. If you like Nastar and can carve the whole thing, I say you are ready to try Masters. Some will no doubt disagree. My first Masters race was a GS, followed by 2 SG's the next day, followed by 2 DH a couple weeks later.

 

I am 50 and raced a few times as a kid. I have run Nastar about 50 times in the past 8 years and this season I started Masters racing.  I don't do it to win, I do it because its FUN. Any day of racing that you can walk back to your car, is a good day of racing, I say.

 

You will need a helmet that is CE certified which has hard ear covers. The skis ScotsSkier has for sale would work great for SG and some DH at your size and weight.  I have the same ski and use them for both.  They are also great to rip groomers on.  The equipment rules are available online at the link provided above. 

 

In a nutshell, this is no big deal.  Masters courses are the real deal, but you are not Bode and the Olympics are not your goal.  Have fun.

 

SwissAm.com has info on training and I am sure there are opportunities to train in the NE.

Since you are fairly new to skiing as well as racing, I think Slalom is excellent training for the beginning racer. It is hard to find a SL course to train on but most race camps alternate between SL and GS training. There is a lot to be said for  being in a slower event (with less dire consequences) as you learn to "see" gates. I'd recommend getting SL and GS skis used, go to a camp  - tons in the fall in CO, lots in New England in early Dec., maybe some down south in NC or VA  (check the southern masters site(SARA?)), find a hill with Nastar or race training and learn to ski gates, do some masters GS or SL, get used to GS speed THEN think about SG.

Typicaly progression is GS-SL-SG/DH. 

 

 

On the other hand, if you like skiing fast and are going to be skiing fast off-course anyway, you might as well get some training, and benefit of B-netting and prepped courses.  I've also been clocked by radar at 60 mph, and GPS many times over 60 mph, and can recall skiing much much faster than the speeds at which I was clocked.  Except for one citizen's downhill all my skiing has been outside of prepared courses.   I say if you like speed, and don't mind lining up to wait your turn, go for it.
 

 

I'd would say the bottom-line for you without any race experience, is to focus on getting into a gs program once or twice a week. 

 

If you look around you might find a masters intro course nearby sometime soon ?? 

 

 

Quote:

This would be great advice, except:

 

Quote:

You should start with a lesson, see where you are technique-wise. Sorry to say this, but self-taught skiers almost ALWAYS have developed tons of bad movement patterns which need to be replaced by proper movement patterns if you want to race at even a NASTAR level.

 

I'd suggest: lessons > a race clinic > NASTAR > try some master's racing to race some 'real' GS and then >>>> try a Master's SG.

 

I think it's great you want to ski a SG, I say go for it, but understand getting there will be a process, like doing an Ironman Event, you don't just show up. There are base-lines of skill and training required.

Check out summer camp listings for Mt. Bachelor if you have the budget to travel.  SG to start? No. 

Edited by markojp - 3/4/12 at 9:56am

^^^  yup,  oopsies.   I agree after reading about how long/often he skis.  I just assumed he had more experience.

no disrespect KG4ONJ but youre lack of skiing time would suggest youd get creamed on a super g pair of skis, theyre very un forgiving and require speed and precision to drive them, take some normal lessons,  i race trained on dendex(dry slope) with it only being short we only ever raced the slalom, before getting in the gates, i thought i was a right hot dog on skis, the gates show your flaws, but it was fantastic learning and improving, over in europe we have summer racing camps on the glaciers,

good luck youll love it
 

 

As several people have already said, GS is the right place to start. It will seem pretty fast, there is a lot to take in. Skiing fast in a race course is much harder than free skiing fast in an empty piste. Another point is that there tend to be a lot of chances to race GS but rather few for SG. If you concentrate just on SG you will find it very difficult to get enough practice.

You can enter less formal GS races without investing in much special equipment, at least to begin with. Just run with whatever you have, just about any frontside carver will work. You probably won't win, but you can give it a go. As your technique improves you will find yourself upgrading your equipment as you go along and as you get more experience you will have a better idea of what will suit you. Plus learning racing is easier if you are on a ski you can handle easily. If you step up onto a full-on GS race ski for your first race experience, the chances of crashing out will be rather high!

That leads to a very importamt issue, which is that once you buy some racing skis, you have to ski them a lot outside of the race course. You have to know just what you can do on them and try to push that envelope all the time. again, this is much easier on GS skis than SG skis. To turn a,SG ski you have to be going pretty fast, too fast for safety in many situations and before long you will get your lift card clipped.... Unless the piste is totally empty I find that skiing SG skis involes putting the brakes on every few turns, which isn't much fun. Now, I live near a ski centre so I can pick the right moment to get them out when I know it will be empty (usually mid weel) and the snow is hard and firm (skiing a SG ski in soft snow is about as much fun as eating a rotten banana). You dont, so you can't be that spontaneous. SG skis are also pretty tiring to ski. You wouldn't want to travel to a ski area with just a pair of SG boards since a whole day of skiing on them would totally blow you out by the end of the day. A full day on GS skis still requires a good level of fitness and athleticism, but it can be done.

At 37, you've got plenty of time, but sounds like location is not ideal (obviously!). If you want to race, get a pair of race carvers or

cheater GS skis (probably fairly short) and run NASTAR when you're at a ski area that has it. Once you get humbled a few times, you can

start to work on technique with coaching or lessons. Racing is a blast-I started at age 50 skidding around on our local beer league courses.

Ten years later, I'm respectable in beer league and mid pack or so in Masters (in my age group). Get some GS experience under your belt

before you try a Super G.

I feel like I'm being repetitive at this point, but I'll just go for it anyways.  

Start out with a Masters or NASTAR program and realistically within maybe 3 or 4 seasons you might be truly ready to take on a SG course.  You could probably handle it before that, but to get the full effect and skill set needed to really do SG it's going to take some time-- definitely less than a decade though!

 

PM me if you're interested in any gear, I've got some race stuff I'm trying to unload.  Freeing up some room in the quiver for next years gear 

Not to be a total buzz kill, but unless you're willing to move to Colorado, or the equivalent, get into a serious Masters training program, commit yourself to 4 or 5 days a week of training, starting in October and running through April, plus dry land in the summer, Masters level racing just ain't gonna happen at all, and Super G definitely ain't gonna happen.  You can travel and take some race clinics and do some Nastar stuff, and eventually that might lead you closer to Masters level racing, but it'll take a long time. 

 

I do live in Colorado, have raced Masters for 25 years, all events.  I do all of the above, meaning I train 4 or 5 days a week, including co training with the CU Boulder ski teams, and race all 4 events. Even if you're experienced and take the right approach, know up front that you're going to get hurt.  I don't know a single Masters racer who hasn't been injured, and I know a couple who can no longer ski because of their injuries.  I've been relatively lucky...broken left arm and dislocated shoulder, broken collarbone, two broken ribs, torn right rotator cuff, meniscus damage in my right knee that required surgery, and one concussion.  I've crashed big 4 times in Super G or DH and walked away from all 4...but that's just God watching out over fools.

 

In some ways, DH is a better speed event to start with, because you get to train on the course you race on...which is not true of Super G.  I've been training and racing Super G and DH at Ski Cooper in Colorado for 20 years.  Ski Cooper is a relatively easy and flat DH, but you still get going fast, and because it's flat, crashing is like hitting a brick wall.  Last year, at the Master's Nationals, I was about a second off the podium in my class in training until the final day's nonstops.  I almost crashed on the last big bump, and on the next run, I stood up a little sooner and got more direction so I could suck up the terrain a little better...which undoubtedly cost me a second, because the next day, I finished 8th in my class. 

 

But I made all the gates, and walked away to ski another day.  I'm 63, and I have a teammate who's about 45.  Last year was his first year of Masters racing, and he was already a strong skier, and trained assiduously with us 4 days a week, and got his chops down in the tech events.  Then he decided to race DH. At the same Masters Nationals last year, he was about 1.8 seconds quicker than I was, and definitely in sight of the podium in his  class...but he also almost ate it on the same bump that almost took me out, and missed the next two gates.  Race day, he punched it and went for all the marbles...and probably had a medal until 3 gates from the finish where he went airborne.  Result: a broken rib, a cracked disc in his back, a dislocated shoulder, a tib/fib fracture, a blown ACL, a blown patellar tendon, and a compromised tibial plateau.  I was watching the whole thing, and it happened just like that. No warning, no indication that anything was wrong, just one second, on the medal stand, in the next instant, on the snow with the patrol cutting his suit off to try to stop the bleeding in his right leg. After 4 surgies and a ton of rehab, he's back on skis...and may be able to train and race, tech events only, next year or the year after. 

 

So what you're looking at is the real thing, and it requires not just the gear, the training time, and a ton of commitment.  It also requires knowing what can happen when things go wrong, which, if you run enough gates, eventually is going to happen...

 

 

 

Better to race and risk injury than to never race at all.

Agreeing with some people:

 

I suppose it depends on region, but Masters racing is mostly (at least among 37-year-old males) done by people who are at a pretty high level, and the better people are quite good indeed, with a history of high-level racing, coaching, etc. I'm not sure it would be a ton of fun to get creamed by pretty nearly everyone.

 

NASTAR would seem the better way to go. In booking your annual ski trip(s), confirm the place you're going has NASTAR, and that it's running while you're there. Beer league would also be an option if you didn't live in Atlanta, but I don't know how it would really work given that.

 

After trying your hand at NASTAR, if you're still gung-ho, consider a full-on race camp. There are tons of these in the summer at Mt. Hood, some particularly aimed at Masters-type skiers of various levels of expertise. There are also some here and there during the normal season, particularly the early season and spring. Some might have a little SG, which - so long as you approach it with a little care and some capable direction - isn't likely to kill you.

 

As for events: GS is going to be by far the easiest for an inexperienced recreational skier. That's why GS (or something like it) is typical for beer league, NASTAR and other "recreational race" undertakings. I think in a slalom you'd feel like you were flailing helplessly.

 

Let someone who knows what he's doing advise you before you run a SG. That's probably going to happen anyway, since it isn't like you can just jump on someone's SG course wily-nily. If your fundamental skills are decent and the course isn't crazy or full of air - and unless you have a pathological addiction to risk (not unknown among teenagers ... relatively rare among those pushing 40) - I don't think you'd actually be in much danger on a SG course, you'd just be very slow. In the same vein: there are a number of areas that have some sort of "Citizen's Downhill," which is essentially a one-off unsanctioned race for all comers. The courses might not be quite as tricky as a "real" SG (or anywhere near as fast as a real DH), but they're an approximation, and you can go fast. In my limited experience, people with quite limited skills sometimes enter  these and have good time. They don't get hurt, the just finish 30 seconds out of first on a 60 second course.

Excellent post sjjohnston

^^  ya I'd agree with that

 

SJJ's post is excellent advice as usual.

 

KG4ONJ, don't be discouraged by some of the other posts above.  As you have said you are not in a position or desire to devote yourself to ski-racing and you are not trying to be a class champion.  I read it that you are looking to improve and experience some speed and adrenaline buzz. .  While any racing has some inherent danger, the pilot does have a degree of control over it.  The advice on trying some Nastar as a taster is good but, to be honest, there is little to no comparison between that and a Masters GS or SG.  It will let you get used to gates and timing but that is it. Kinda like driving a Civic as opposed to an S2000.  And if you want to ski fast, slalom training, while great from a technical perspective will not help you much. 

 

What a lot of people seem to forget is that even in masters there is a HUGE spectrum of abilities. Not being fast or competitive does not stop them having fun, enjoying the level of speed they are comfortable with, and competing against their chosen "hare". As an example, at our FW Masters Squaw valley SG series (3 races) last year, one of the guys in the 45-50 age-group was having his first ever race, no speed suit and on a pair of Rossi Bandits as i recall.  Was he competitive?  No.  Did he have an ear to ear grin at the end of each run? you betcha!.

 

Citizens DHs can also be fun (Jay Peak was my first DH) BUT bear in mind they are not USSA sanctioned and as such the safety precautions can be variable.  Some of them may be less tricky than a real SG or DH but others such as Jay Peak is full on DH.  (I hit 69 in the speed trap (on a pair of 195 GS) and IIRC the top speeds recorded were 80+). 

 

So, if you are comfortable with the risks in your control, go for it in whatever form you have the opportunity to try.

 

 

 

 

All true.  However, I think it's more important to be comfortable with the risks not in your control.  You can go race speed, be clueless, take it easy, and make it through the finish with the waxed side down, but that can be just luck.  On the other hand, you can do everything right, but Stuff Can Happen, and you can wind up in the fence. If you haven't done so, the best advice I can give you is to go watch lots of ski racing on the tube, where Universal Sports has the best coverage. Not just speed events, but the techie stuff too, and you'll see that the speeds there aren't casual, and Stuff Happens to the best, and you can see what the results of that are.  Then go watch some ski racing in person, because it always looks easier and less real on a flat screen.  That'll give you a better idea of what you're considering than all the words in the world.  Then go do whatever works for you, and hopefully it'll be fun and you'll still be standing up at the finish...

 

 

 

Jay Peak is no where near a full DH. More like slower speed skiing. You actually have to turn when you get up to 80 in a full on DH. The only full on DH that you can get here in the East is with a FIS license at MSA, Sugarloaf, or Massif.