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MA request, please!

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Did some skiing for my buddy who's doing a project in a biomechanics class, hence why I'm all taped up.  I'm the on in blue/black.  I'd love to get some feedback from you all though, just for fun!  

post #2 of 13

Not bad...but 2 major issues:

 

1: Turn intiation.  Start the turn by extending the ankles alot more.  As it stands you are way too far forward when the turn starts.  This moves your pivot point forward and is what is causing the start of that "down-stem" preventing you from edging more effectivley.  Easy to see in the side shots, you are super maning over the handle bars!

 

2: Upper body/lower body separation.  Keep the upper body still, you dont need to follow the skis that much.  Bringing up the body around like you do is completeing the down stem action and preventing you from finishing the turns with a crisp carve, instead leaving you with a spray.

post #3 of 13

hmmm. Maybe I'm linked to a different video, but I'd say nice turns! The only thing that stands out for me is it looks like you're getting too inside early (cause) on in your right to left turns, particularly in the first one or two when you're not up to speed. At low speed, your right leg is a bit straight and braced, and the tail of the ski is being pushed out at the bottom of the turn and skis diverge a bit (effect)... small beers and very easy to correct. As our TD once said, it's tough doing a 30mph move at 10mph. I'm sure a lot of folks here would like to have your 'problems'. smile.gif

post #4 of 13

Dude hit on something that I would like to explore. Overall the turns show discipline except for where you pressure the entire ski. That seems to be at the two thirds point, followed by the outside tail washing out a bit. Both suggest excessive tip pressure and the side view confirms this. Dude's suggesting you are maintaining tip pressure by levering forward and the unintended consequence of this is the tail wash / downstem near the end of the turns. It also makes it harder to simultaneously release both skis. Again contributing to the probability of a slight wedge in the transition. Something I also see in your turns BTW. Good eye Dude.

 

The cure is to plantar flex the ankle and extend the legs and in effect, reach out laterally with your feet instead of extending your body upward. That will load the ski much earlier in the turn and will allow you to have more RoM when you flex to absorb. Which will keep the skis and especially the tails from skidding later in the turn.

post #5 of 13

Just curious, but wouldn't being inside too early have exactly the same effect? 
 

post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Just curious, but wouldn't being inside too early have exactly the same effect? 
 


Not at all.

 

Fore/aft balance issues, create a whole different set of problems to lateral balance issues.

 

 

On that thou, I dont see lateral balance issues here.  Even with the ski breaking away, he is "on top" of it...tells me his lateral balance is fine.   But watch that tail push out....fore/aft issues with rotational balance issues thrown in.

 

 

Lateral balance issues such as moving in too quick typically cause things like the outside ski to track away from the skier, that is not happenign here, the ski is coming around.  Tipping inside often prevents any kind of "steering" and you end up with a park and ride, or high speed roller blade style turn...that is not happening here either.

 

post #7 of 13

I guess I was seeing it as a refinement of a movement. I've seen this in a lot of clinics where a very good skier gets in too early at lower speeds. Rotating/closing the hips to compensate and maintain pressure is also a fairly common outcome which is what we're seeing, no? 

I'm in no way being rhetorical. Just want to be educated by some good eyes.

post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

I guess I was seeing it as a refinement of a movement. I've seen this in a lot of clinics where a very good skier gets in too early at lower speeds. Rotating/closing the hips to compensate and maintain pressure is also a fairly common outcome which is what we're seeing, no? 

I'm in no way being rhetorical. Just want to be educated by some good eyes.


When tipped in too early we somtimes are then forced to "muscle" the ski around, this often manifests itself as rotation...but that isnt the case here, the ski is coming around pretty effortlessly. 

 

Another visual clue is to watch the skis tip and tail.  Which "comes around" more...the tip...or the tail?  It should be even...as even = carving.  Here the tails swing out way more then the ski tips swing in.  Classic sign of a foward pivot point. 

 

post #9 of 13

Nice video and turns, dfriedl.  Those turns are way better than "not bad."

What are you going to do with the tape?  What will the animation look like?

post #10 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
 

 Which "comes around" more...the tip...or the tail?  It should be even...as even = carving.  Here the tails swing out way more then the ski tips swing in.  Classic sign of a foward pivot point. 

 


Yeah, I get that. It's very easy to see. I'm kind of a 'give it a general look, then start at the feet and work up.'  I'll have to go back and look more carefully at the vid shot from the side. 

 

post #11 of 13

So here's an idea, getting inside too far projects the core towards a place later in the turn. The tell tale sign of this is when and where the snow starts to spray. In the video it's the two thirds point. So what would happen if you projected the core to a point earlier in the turn? The divergence angle between the core's path and the feet's path would be less and you simply wouldn't end up with the core so far inside the new turn.

 

Aditionally, as Dude suggested coming off the tongues by plantar flexing the ankles and as I suggested not redirecting the core upward allows you to set up better to work the ski before the fall line. It also sets you up to absorb pressure in the last half of the turn by allowing more flexing to occur and thus avoid overwhelming the edge you have established. Until you do this the rotary pivot to an edge set (the down stem and tail wash dude mentioned) will be there.  

 

post #12 of 13

Absolutely agree about not moving the core 'up', but rather 'along' the path of travel. At the level the OP is skiing, a lot of this stuff is making adjustments 'in' the boot as you and dude suggest with the plantar flexion.

 

post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

I guess I was seeing it as a refinement of a movement. I've seen this in a lot of clinics where a very good skier gets in too early at lower speeds. Rotating/closing the hips to compensate and maintain pressure is also a fairly common outcome which is what we're seeing, no? 

I'm in no way being rhetorical. Just want to be educated by some good eyes.


Yeah, I call it "small hill itis" where a good skier pumps the turn like a swing set to get more umph out of the bunny bump terrain. I do believe there is some of that going on here.  The telltale signs are a cross over high powered short/medium radius turn with a slightly lower angle on the inside ski.  To often I have been guilty of this myself.

 

To use the swing set effect for cool feeling  medium radius dynamic carved turns you tighten the core and drive the outside half forward after the fall line and rocket the skis across the slope.  This squares you up and gets your CM moving more with the skis.  The result is you use more short leg long leg to edge and topple the CM inside. The forward momentum translates into pressure/leverage to engage the tips as the the skis go on high edge.   Does it work to increase speed and power?    Probably not but it sure as hell seems like it to the skier.   Gives a feeling of more power and feels cool.

 

When you throttle this down into a smaller size turn your usual inside leg extension at turn finish becomes more of a vertical extension and the problem becomes one of getting the CM moving a different path from the skis again.  Your  momentum turns into leveraging the tips on low edge  and a slight rotation/counter rotation gets the cm off the skis by pushing the tails.  You can see this little move as the very first movement/pre turn out of your glide when you start down the hill. Once the CM is inside, the active shortening of the inside leg drives the outside leg out completing the tail push.  After the fall line the "drive through" is started before a good edge  has been established and the result is a skidded hard edge after the apex and you end up to square and inside with the CM in a ready made set up for the next vertical extension.

 

The mechanics are as JASP and Dude have said but I see the fix as more in the intent and tactics.  Back off the cool feeling swing set mechanics and just tip the edges to start the turn.  Tell yourself "Less is More". Let the feet/skis reach out to the side without much of the short leg long leg effect at the top of the turn.  After tipping the skis on edge at transition look to engage the tips from a tall stance with planter flexion (slight pressure to the ball of the foot) and a bit of leg steering and guide the tips into the apex of the turn.   You have plenty enough technique but need to settle the driving down and let things happen again. 

 

Once settled down you can throttle the small dynamic turn back up but use more of a cross under to do so.   I would also back off the drive through in the medium radius turns  and put a bit more cross under effect in those as well.   The end result is actually more speed and power in both short and medium radius turns and quicker smoother edge to edge transitions.

 

Way to go on just having fun though.

 

 

 

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