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Compensating technique!

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I've got some real problematical alignment issues. Basically I have significant tibial torsion in my right leg. In brief this manifests itself as my right foot out at an angle in excess of 23 degrees when my knee is straight. If I put my foot fairly straight as in a ski boot, my knee is twisted at a similar angle. It has resulted in lots of knee pain but that's for another thread.

 

I've tried hard over the last few years to get my boots fitted to really help me, initially with no succes and a lot of pain and then with an improvement but by no means a real solution.

 

I've just come back from a week in Austria and feel really down about what's happening. The skiing was feeling pretty good but when I've watched some video and slowed it down, I can see there is still so much going on that a) looks terrible to me and b) is holding me back technically.

 

I find it really hard to engage the inside edge of my right ski and rely on too much knee angulation to acheive some grip particularly on hard snow. I am really struggling to acheive an appropriate platform angle. The appearance is of an 'A' frame. I think it's a faux 'A' frame as the skis do find the same edge angle. Also at the end of the turn particularly in short radius, the right ski breaks out and forms a slight downhill stem. I felt things improved through the week but I had a problem with camera so unfortunately couldn't get real confirmation of this. I hope that would have shown some improvement. (Incidentally the video quality is very poor and anyway I'd be reluctant to post video on here as there tends to be a lot of unconstructive negativity that I really don't want at the moment)

 

Having spent a lot of money trying to sort out my alignment in the last couple of years, I really don't think I can afford another major expense, especially since I'm not confident it'll make much difference. My last bootfitter says I'm balanced in the boot but I know I'm seriously undercanted. I know he's a good bootfitter but he hasn't seen how things are on snow and it's also a long way for me to travel to see him, so I can't keep tweaking things.

 

Off snow the things I'm working specifically on are core and glutes as I believe the glutes have been found to have a big influence on the knee. On snow I've been working hard to make sure I employ more hip angulation and counter as I understand a strong counter reduces the potential for knee angulation. I feel this works at higher speed carved tuurns and my wife who skis with me says she can't notice the knee problem in these higher speed longer radius turns.

 

Is there anyone, maybe similar sufferers, who can suggest any technical modifications I can make to help my situation even if temporarily until I can afford another fitting? I am realistic enough to know that I am never going to have perfect alignment but I'm working towards my CSIA Lvell 3 and I just won't get close with my current situation.

 

I am thinking about trying some shimming on the inside of the boot as a temporary test to see if it helps. I'm not confident doing major stuff to my boots.

post #2 of 17
I hope you can find a good solution to this issue, as I don't think I'll be much of a help technique wise.

You can adjust your own canting. Stack strips of duct tape on the bottom of your boot or on the toe piece of the binding. This way you'll be able to play around with the canting and not have done anything permanent to your boots.

A good boot fitter will go out on the snow with you and really understand your issue. Maybe look around to see if any other fitters would help you out like this.
post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks SB. With the tape under the boot how would you stop the binding release from being affected?

 

I live in the UK so don't have the facility for a bootfitter to see me ski. I'm going to Lake Louise in late March and wonder whether it's a good idea to get some boots there. The problems with this are firstly the cost and secondly once I leave it's too far for me to go back and have further adjustments.

 

We have some indoor snow slopes here in the UK but not many high quality bootfitters. To my knowledge none is situated close enough to a slope.

post #4 of 17
Post your question on the bootfitter forum. Instead of Lake Louise, I'd head to one of the places where the bootfitters participating there is located, as long as I could get an appointment including on-snow evaluation. The list of those folks and their locations is at http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitters-on-epicski

I'd be concerned about "stacks" of duct tape on the boot. A little tape can show your need for minor adjustments, but your situation sounds a lot more serious than the type of things that can help diagnose. Pieces of something like a credit card slipped under the boot as you step into the binding would be better "adjusters".
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the response Kneale and firstly I hope the injury is improving and the rehab is going well. I deliberately  didn't post on the bootfitters forum as I was mainly looking to get some help with technical things I could try to compensate and thought this forum may be better.

It's curiously comforting for someone to acknowledge that my situation sounds serious as I've become increasingly frustrated that noone previously has. I think people seem to think it falls within the normal range of problems. I don't think it does.

As I mentioned I've spent a lot on fitting recently and don't know that I can justify another start from scratch that may again not really help. If I do go for a fitter I've looked at Ultimate Fit in Banff as it was on the list you linked to.

If I try the credit card piece under the boot will that affect the binding release?

post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adie View Post

> If I try the credit card piece under the boot will that affect the binding release?


The credit card pieces will fall/slip out if a release is called for. Something with adhesive on it might get hung up. Try the plastic card under one side of the toe, then under the toe and heel on the same side and under just the heel to see if the canting makes any difference. If you notice any change to the better, try combinations of two and three pieces of the plastic in the various locations.

Again, your situation may require significant boot or binding changes that only a really knowledgeable boot expert can determine with on-snow evaluations. I'd contact Ultimate Fit and see if they include on-snow testing. If not, go elsewhere.

Good service is expensive, but if you get it figured out, it's more than worth the price.
post #7 of 17

Duct tape is the traditional poor mans canting diagnostic. 3 strips thick of tape = degree of cant if I recall correctly. You cover just 1/2 inch of one side of the anti friction device and go test it on easy terrain and then you take it off and clean the AFD of any stray duct goop. Yes this is dangerous. No I don't recommend it. I'm just saying that this is a relatively common method for determining canting before committing to serious boot work.

 

Adie - for that amount of trouble, I'd expect to see it take lots of pain, time and money to get fixed. This may be something that requires great vs good expertise. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking at CSIA 3 snowboarding vs skiing. This problem should be much less of a problem for a sideways sport and once you get on edge, the two sports are pretty similar.

post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the suggestion Rusty but skiing is a lifelong passion I've persued with no mountains nearby and nobody in my family who ever did it. I've got to a good level and absolutely love it even if I do agonise over my issues from time to time. I just can't imagine getting that immersed in another sport however similar.

post #9 of 17

I would not expect duct tape to greatly affect binding function. I had a shop test Marker 1400 bindings with and without duct tape shims, and they tested the same both times. This could vary by binding of course. Have you looked at duck stance boots and or bindings?

post #10 of 17

I agree with The Rusty, snowboarding is just asmuch fun and with your knee and foot alignment issues it's going to put less stress on your knees. Additionally, Fisher has the duck footed shells and heat molding options but even that may not be enough to compensate for that foot natually being turned out over twenty degrees. I hope you find a solution that works better for you. It would be interesting to read how you solve this problem, so please keep us informed about your experience.

post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 

 

Deep breaths. I've out the video up here but I'm really not looking to be pulled apart. I've already outlined my awareness of a lot of issues. I'm really just looking for some constructive information from those amongst us who are genuinely in a position to offer it for example the last 4 contributors.

post #12 of 17
Did those turns hurt your right knee?
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 

Funnily enough Kneale I skied as pain free as I have in a long time. I put this down to some of the gluteal work I've been doing and an effective support.

post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adie View Post

Thanks for the suggestion Rusty but skiing is a lifelong passion I've persued with no mountains nearby and nobody in my family who ever did it. I've got to a good level and absolutely love it even if I do agonise over my issues from time to time. I just can't imagine getting that immersed in another sport however similar.


 

It was not so much a suggestion as an observation. Your skiing is fantastic for having that issue. Getting to level 3 ought to be doable. Hard, but doable. If people can pass level 3 with a fused ankle, you can do it with a small (cough) alignment issue. I'm just saying that knowing what I know now, if I were in your boots, I'd cross over to the dark side. Your vertical may vary.

 

If someone told me years ago that skiing and riding were the same I would not have believed it. Remember when the first day of ski season you'd put your skis on and how funny they felt for the first run or two, then one year that feeling never happened? I've gone through that swapping from skis to board and back. It's surprising how both sports have just become a common "riding on snow" sensation when you don't think about it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Of course, it could just be the baggy pants affecting my brain ..... snowboarding does have some unusual side effects.

post #15 of 17

Well said! The tool doesn't make the experience once you know how to use it.

post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adie View Post

I am realistic enough to know that I am never going to have perfect alignment but I'm working towards my CSIA Lvell 3 and I just won't get close with my current situation.

 

 



Let me just say that generally speaking the CSIA is inclusive, rather then exclusive.  Examiners will look for reasons to pass you, rather then fail you.  I dont beleive your situation would preclude you from passing your CSIA 3. 

 

 

 

post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adie View Post

 

I live in the UK so don't have the facility for a bootfitter to see me ski. I'm going to Lake Louise in late March and wonder whether it's a good idea to get some boots there.


You won't find much in Lake Louise.  When you touch down in Calgary, go see Lou Rosenfeld before you head to the mountains (book an appointment with Lou ahead of time).  He's one of the best, anywhere.  http://www.lous.ca/services.html

 

 

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