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Lift line etiquette - Page 3  

post #61 of 129

Pretty much repeating what others have already said, for the most part:

 

The main line is The line.

 

The singles line (if there is one) exists solely for the purpose of filling seats that would otherwise go up empty. Thus: when a single joins a group that is in the main line (and that otherwise would've filled less than a whole chair), it has no effect whatsoever on how quickly anyone in the main line gets to load.

 

It follows that the proper etiquette is to give people in the main line priority: the exact opposite from what the guy said. Somewhat on the other hand, if you're a single and got in the main line, and got all the way to the front without joining a group, either:

- the main line was sufficiently short that you chose it, and didn't have time to join a group before getting to the front, or

- you were kind of remiss to stand in line for awhile without joining the group earlier.

If the former is the case: the etiquette point doesn't really matter. If the latter: you're cavalierness kind of makes it a case of six-of-one, half-a-dozen-of-the-other (or, I suppose, four-of-one, a-third-of-a-dozen-of-the-other) etiquette-wise.

 

Additional thing that follows: It's never appropriate for four people in the singles line to take a full chair.* Well, okay, unless they're the only people waiting.

 

Aside: in the old days, when chairs were almost all doubles (and lines were much longer!), there weren't singles lines. You pulled up to the back of the line and yelled "single!" If someone already in the line was single, you got to jump in line with him; if not, you got in the back of the main line and waited for someone else to come along and yell "single!" It was quite bad form not to yell, or not to answer a yell, so that ordinarily an arriving single would join someone fairly near the back of the line. If someone went all the way to the front and loaded a chair by himself, he was liable to be beaten with ski poles.

 

As to the contemporary semi-corollary (people intentionally failing to fill chairs when there's a line): the more egregious cases may very well be teenage snowboarders, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the number and dimensions of their sliding boards. It just has to do with the fact that teenagers have a talent for doing egregious things, and snowboarders are over-represented among teenagers.

_____

*Or three, if the chair is a triple ... or six if the chair is a six-pack, just to cover the universe of possibilities.

post #62 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post

Pretty much repeating what others have already said, for the most part:

 

The main line is The line...


Yes. Singles line has lowest priority, but usually the faster option, as it should be.

 

You can say what you want about snowboarders but I'm willing to bet money the guy who said "You can not join our group" was an alpine skier. Any wagers? :)

 

post #63 of 129

The singles line does not have lowest priority. The situation described by the OP is that there were two main lines. So there was no THE line. He was in the opposite line from the group of three. If he was in the same line, he could have just jumped in with the three group before they came to the loading area. In his case, I'd say that the singles line has priority.

 

One side goes, grabs a single or multiple singles from the singles line, then the other side (OP) goes and he can grab singles to fill out the chair. That's how lift operators run it when they're out there; don't see why it should be any different. Also don't see why it was a big enough deal for the guy in the group to care (singles guy maybe, but not the guy that it didn't affect either way), but that doesn't mean the singles line is last priority either.

post #64 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

The singles line does not have lowest priority...


Yes, it does.

 

post #65 of 129

If you keep arguing it, I'm sure it will come true.

 

From this thread alone, it's clear there's no universal system. In other words, the guy should have just shut his mouth and the singles line is not the lowest priority.

post #66 of 129

Similar to hitchhiking or flying standby.

post #67 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

don't spit on the chair if there are people with you. It's disgusting. and the atomized saliva and mucus goes right back into everyone's face. oh, and cough into your elbow. I can't believe I even have to say this....spread the word.



icon14.gif

 

Spread the word, not the germs!

 

 

Seriously, that would just about put my RPM meter into the red zone.  Luckily not sure it's ever happened to me, but it would be gross as hell.

post #68 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post



icon14.gif

 

Spread the word, not the germs!

 

 

Seriously, that would just about put my RPM meter into the red zone.  Luckily not sure it's ever happened to me, but it would be gross as hell.


I've seen someone urinating from a chairlift. Odd coincidence, at the time he was one of my dispatchers at Quick Messenger Service.

 

post #69 of 129

Of course urine is not as germy as snot. I'm not suggesting he did anything as bad as sneezing without covering his mouth!

post #70 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Of course urine is not as germy as snot. I'm not suggesting he did anything as bad as sneezing without covering his mouth!



Unless he had a UTI, chlamydia, or gonorrhea.

post #71 of 129

Yuck, drains back into the snowmaking pond...

post #72 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



201100306_andrew_dualstart_sm.jpg


520p17.jpg

 

post #73 of 129

Last year Broken Arrow at Squaw-- a two person chair--had a singles line.  I'm still trying to figure that one out. 

 

A point of etiquette--if you ride Silverado when there's a 40 minute line and have two people or less on the 3 person chair, expect to be pummelled by snowballs. Hard. 

 

The most dangerous place at Squaw is the KT line on a storm day.  When I think about that line and then read the OP I have to laugh.

 

 

post #74 of 129


Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

The situation described by the OP is that there were two main lines.

 

Yeah, the OP's situation was slightly more complicated than I made it sound in my post (blame it on the incredible amount of time it takes this site to load the first page of a thread after looking through it).

 

My point was that, as between the singles line and the line that everyone else gets in, the one everyone gets in us the The line, and the singles one is an adjunct.

 

The purpose of the singles line (as about a dozen or more people have said) is to fill empty seats in such a way that it doesn't affect how long anyone else is waiting. The purpose is not to reward people who are skiing by themselves with a shorter line for some obscure reason.

 

When you've got two main lines joining right before the loading point, the specifics of how people join up are slightly more complicated, but that doesn't change the fact that the main line (or, in this case, lines) are the main lines, and the singles lines are just to fill in empty spots. As a matter of practicality, sometimes odd things happen because people don't have much time to communicate right where the lines join. But the general principle is the same.

 

To take a slightly different example, if two pairs come to the head of both lines at the same time, they should join and form a quad, rather than pulling two out of the singles line for one pair, and two out of the singles line for the other pair. Lift guys may not always do it that way, because it's easier for them to look one direction, then the other, rather than to try to put together groups from opposite sides. In this case, that's irrelevant, though: the OP had the quad put together, and they threw him out.

post #75 of 129



Quote:

Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post

The purpose of the singles line (as about a dozen or more people have said) is to fill empty seats in such a way that it doesn't affect how long anyone else is waiting. The purpose is not to reward people who are skiing by themselves with a shorter line for some obscure reason.

 

 

Nor is to punish them. 

 

In situations where the singles line is moving at a pace roughly equal to the main line...no issue.  However it happens fairly often on busy days for the singles line to just stall and in effect end up being substantially longer wait time then the main line, as Ski School takes the singles plus groups merge in the main line.  In this scenario it is appropriate for the singles line to be ushered in to form a chair of singles.  But as I wrote before, this usually requires a good "on the ball" lift line attendant to make happen. 

 

If you ski somewhere where Ski School is not overly popular and they dont snag the singles, then this scenario is not likley to happen...but at major resorts...in my experience, its common.

post #76 of 129

Rules.gif

 

It really depends on the resort as to what kind of priority singles line folks get.  I do the majority of my trips solo and most places I've visited in the MidAtlantic lately singles line gets pretty equal billing. It is usually three or even four lanes and a singles line.  Lifties direct lane 1, then lane 2, then lane 3 adding singles as needed.  After lane three (or whatever is the last one) they then PULL FOUR SINGLES FROM THE SINGLES LINE (if it is a quad) before going back to lane 1.  Singles lines ROCK around here!yahoo.gif

 

In Europe apparently everyone is a single. 

post #77 of 129

KT single line could have 80 people in it.  'The' line on some days.  Because I'm in it. 

 

It does affect your place in line because if they weren't in the singles line (filling in chairs), they'd be somewhere in front of (or behind) you. spit.gif
 

 

(bold SJ's in quoted post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post


Quote:

 

Yeah, the OP's situation was slightly more complicated than I made it sound in my post (blame it on the incredible amount of time it takes this site to load the first page of a thread after looking through it).

 

My point was that, as between the singles line and the line that everyone else gets in, the one everyone gets in us the The line, and the singles one is an adjunct.

 

The purpose of the singles line (as about a dozen or more people have said) is to fill empty seats in such a way that it doesn't affect how long anyone else is waiting. The purpose is not to reward people who are skiing by themselves with a shorter line for some obscure reason.

 

When you've got two main lines joining right before the loading point, the specifics of how people join up are slightly more complicated, but that doesn't change the fact that the main line (or, in this case, lines) are the main lines, and the singles lines are just to fill in empty spots. As a matter of practicality, sometimes odd things happen because people don't have much time to communicate right where the lines join. But the general principle is the same.

 

To take a slightly different example, if two pairs come to the head of both lines at the same time, they should join and form a quad, rather than pulling two out of the singles line for one pair, and two out of the singles line for the other pair. Lift guys may not always do it that way, because it's easier for them to look one direction, then the other, rather than to try to put together groups from opposite sides. In this case, that's irrelevant, though: the OP had the quad put together, and they threw him out.



 

post #78 of 129

Seriously, the fact that this has gone on for this number of pages makes me glad I ski in Montana, where it's only the tourons worrying about this stuff.  You're in an all fired rush, go ahead, there's plenty more snow for everyone.  I ski single all the time, sometimes in the "singles" line, sometimes in the main line.  I always ask if I can join a group.  Never been told "no".  If I had I would have been totally stunned, of course, and just waited for the next group...then talked about what dicks the first group was the whole way up.  

post #79 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post


Quote:

 

Yeah, the OP's situation was slightly more complicated than I made it sound in my post (blame it on the incredible amount of time it takes this site to load the first page of a thread after looking through it).

 

My point was that, as between the singles line and the line that everyone else gets in, the one everyone gets in us the The line, and the singles one is an adjunct.

 

The purpose of the singles line (as about a dozen or more people have said) is to fill empty seats in such a way that it doesn't affect how long anyone else is waiting. The purpose is not to reward people who are skiing by themselves with a shorter line for some obscure reason.

 

When you've got two main lines joining right before the loading point, the specifics of how people join up are slightly more complicated, but that doesn't change the fact that the main line (or, in this case, lines) are the main lines, and the singles lines are just to fill in empty spots. As a matter of practicality, sometimes odd things happen because people don't have much time to communicate right where the lines join. But the general principle is the same.

 

To take a slightly different example, if two pairs come to the head of both lines at the same time, they should join and form a quad, rather than pulling two out of the singles line for one pair, and two out of the singles line for the other pair. Lift guys may not always do it that way, because it's easier for them to look one direction, then the other, rather than to try to put together groups from opposite sides. In this case, that's irrelevant, though: the OP had the quad put together, and they threw him out.

 

 

Like SkiDude mentioned, the singles line is not a punishment. Singles do not have to stand there and watch multiple groups of 2 + 2s or 3 +1s go ahead of them, unless maybe that's the way the lift operator is running it (every liftie I've seen pulls liberally from the singles line). There's no reason that a single from the main line has priority over a single from the singles line. None. As far as I'm concerned, the main lines are supposed to alternate with singles filling in empty spots. That's how the system has always run when I've seen it, and it is quite efficient. When someone's actually out there directing, they make an effort to pull from each line equally. They don't just let the singles line stand there while making pair ups from the group lines.

 

The "reward" goes hand in hand with the goal you describe. The singles line is faster, so people want to use it, which makes the entire line go faster. If singles really had such lowly priority, they might not use the singles line, slowing everyone down.

 

 

 

post #80 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Rules.gif

 

It really depends on the resort as to what kind of priority singles line folks get.  I do the majority of my trips solo and most places I've visited in the MidAtlantic lately singles line gets pretty equal billing. It is usually three or even four lanes and a singles line.  Lifties direct lane 1, then lane 2, then lane 3 adding singles as needed.  After lane three (or whatever is the last one) they then PULL FOUR SINGLES FROM THE SINGLES LINE (if it is a quad) before going back to lane 1.  Singles lines ROCK around here!yahoo.gif

 

In Europe apparently everyone is a single. 


Not a huge deal, but while we are examining everything in detail:

if there is a liftie, usually they're also matching up pairs, so they call out the 4singles more often.

Whereas if it's left to as self-organization, pairs usually don't match up, so singles fill in more often.  So that sort of cancels out.


Of course, depends on the liftie, and I don't think they spend more than 2minutes learning this from the senior liftie.  They're not racking their brains with montecarlo simulations over the most optimal and fair way to do the lines

post #81 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

KT single line could have 80 people in it.  'The' line on some days.  Because I'm in it. 

 

It does affect your place in line because if they weren't in the singles line (filling in chairs), they'd be somewhere in front of (or behind) you. spit.gif
 

 



Exacltey...without singles line everyone would suffer as their would be empty seats going up chairs all over, reducing the system efficiency for everyone.  Typically the singles line is quicker thus its appeal...but this is not always the case, and when it isnt, the singles line looses its appeal, which would be detrimental to everyone.

 

post #82 of 129

the way you typo-ed exactly just goes so durn well with your avatar. good onebiggrin.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post



Exacltey...without singles line everyone would suffer as their would be empty seats going up chairs all over, reducing the system efficiency for everyone.  Typically the singles line is quicker thus its appeal...but this is not always the case, and when it isnt, the singles line looses its appeal, which would be detrimental to everyone.

 



 

post #83 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post

Pretty much repeating what others have already said, for the most part:

 

The main line is The line.

 

The singles line (if there is one) exists solely for the purpose of filling seats that would otherwise go up empty. Thus: when a single joins a group that is in the main line (and that otherwise would've filled less than a whole chair), it has no effect whatsoever on how quickly anyone in the main line gets to load.

 

Additional thing that follows: It's never appropriate for four people in the singles line to take a full chair.* Well, okay, unless they're the only people waiting.

 

As to the contemporary semi-corollary (people intentionally failing to fill chairs when there's a line): the more egregious cases may very well be teenage snowboarders, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the number and dimensions of their sliding boards. It just has to do with the fact that teenagers have a talent for doing egregious things, and snowboarders are over-represented among teenagers.

_____

 

 



Were you that guy I did not care to share a chair with the other day? Sounds like you might have been, I bought a ticket or season pass just like you. I show up alone. You rule with your "pals"? So you're back two chairs or so. Is your day ruined. If it is you are pretty shallow.

post #84 of 129

I have one other issue with the way lifts lines are treated.

 

Why on earth do people insist on meeting each other at the bottom of the lift and not the top. (rhetorical)

It would not make a lick of diff to meet that the top of the lift and it would stop people from amassing around the line line entrance waiting for others and insisting on going up in groups that a good deal dont have the reactions to all get on by the time they hit the front of the line.

 

Its a skilift not a nice drive in the country with friends.

 

If everyone got on and grouped with anyone else they would all end up at the top and none will have waited any longer than they would have if they waited at the bottom for others, blocking the lift line entrance.

They would also be concentrating on loading not talking to pals that is often the cause of half the group getting on and the other half standing there resulting in 2 half empty chairs.

 

 

post #85 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePlanted View Post

Why on earth do people insist on meeting each other at the bottom of the lift and not the top. (rhetorical)

It would not make a lick of diff to meet that the top of the lift and it would stop people from amassing around the line line entrance waiting for others and insisting on going up in groups that a good deal dont have the reactions to all get on by the time they hit the front of the line.

 

 


It's sometimes really freaking cold and windy at the top but comfortable at the bottom, so on those days I'd rather wait at the bottom.  The problem is with people being too clueless to not block the line entrance, and people being overly invested in how others board the lift.

 


Edited by Toecutter - 2/29/12 at 5:56am
post #86 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePlanted View Post

Why on earth do people insist on meeting each other at the bottom of the lift and not the top. (rhetorical)

It would not make a lick of diff to meet that the top of the lift and it would stop people from amassing around the line line entrance waiting for others and insisting on going up in groups that a good deal dont have the reactions to all get on by the time they hit the front of the line.


I thought the area at the top of the mountain between the lift unloading ramp and ski trails was reserved for snowboarders to sit around and mess with their bindings.  th_dunno-1[1].gif

 

post #87 of 129

 2191219738_a8cae99f0c.jpg

post #88 of 129

ahahah...the plight of the weekend warrior. Listen to you people whine. Just line up, and get on the thing when it's your turn. Who cares if some one used the singles line, or if a single used the other line why do you care so much about which line has priority? You all need to relax and enjoy the skiing and realize how easy it is for you to get to the top of a mountain to begin with.

post #89 of 129

No weekends for me in over ten years.

Got all my regular customers clear on where Ill be at least 1 or 2 days midweek but they can come in weekends and that suits them.

My local is close to the city and weekends are chockers but mid week empty.

New season pass is half price for mid week only use pass, they cant discount weekends there would be rioting.

 

 

post #90 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by banffguy View Post

ahahah...the plight of the weekend warrior. Listen to you people whine. Just line up, and get on the thing when it's your turn. Who cares if some one used the singles line, or if a single used the other line why do you care so much about which line has priority? You all need to relax and enjoy the skiing and realize how easy it is for you to get to the top of a mountain to begin with.


I think that was agreed already, there was no need for the other guy to get snippy about the singles line, its not that bigger an issue to be hassling others over..


 

 

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