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Video critique request

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

Ive been reading some of the threads here and there is some great advice.

Some of it has cleared up some questions I had but Id like to be sure of that.

 

In short Ive been skiing all my life old school, feet together, push the pedals.

 

Ive been watching people doing the edged turns for a few season but never though it worth changing, then one day this guy blasts past me on the edges down a  fairly steep run in arc turns.

Anyway the guy was about 75 yo, and what occured to me is that his technque was probably less demanding on the older body than my old way and seems to make more use of the skis.

I did a few runs with him copying his style and thought it relaxing to ski like that, and a really positive edge.

It feels like a race bike.

 

So watched a few videos to get some pointers and applied that last season here and its going well enough, I think but not sure.

 

Ive had this issue of steming into turns and reading some advice here I am thinking the problem I have is that I am pushing my inside foot wat too far forward, a relic of old ski style and that is causing the problem.

Also putting some effort into keep the feet appart more but may be overdoing it a bit.

 

Ive got a pile of POV video facing front and backwards, Ive only got one where another person I wearing it following me.

 

This one is mild comedy with my budy wearing the cam and doing his usual throw everything at it method to keep up. (He resists all instructions)

Im the skier ahead of him the the blue parka black pants so it shows me skiing from behind at various point in the video..

Last run Im turning in the inside ski only for a bit to try and get the inside leg working independently more and steering.

 

 

View from behind looks ok but maybe legs are too far appart I suspect

Then in bumps they are back together and I tend to revert to the old way of bumps, got vid of that too.

 

 

Front view the tips are visible, but rear view the tracks dont seem to show smear in the trails id expect with steming so not its not making sense to me.

Also see my inside knee a lot and thats why I suspect Im shoving the inside foot forward too much.

Not sure if those views are of any use.

 

TIA

PP

 

 


Edited by PolePlanted - 2/23/12 at 2:34am
post #2 of 17

Dude,

 

I couldnt watch that without getting motion sickness.  So let me just give you this:

 

The foregin (ie Canadian) instructors at Buller are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Look...I assume you live in Melbourne, and think, how could any of the guys at Buller know what they are doing...Buller sucks! Well Buller does suck...but it pays really well, and when you got to support a family back home, that is all that matters.  Pros that are reserved for special programs and training other instructors in North America, are standing around at Buller (North American Summer) waiting for a lesson. 

 

Think about it.  At Buller you can just walk in and get lessons with guys that in North America you would have to book 4 months in advance...if you could get them at all....for about a 1/3 the price.   

 

To me....no brainer.

post #3 of 17
Thread Starter 

Yes I could get some private lessons here, if I ever get some spare coin Ill be sure to do that.

Till then just looking for advice on the issues posed..

 

 

post #4 of 17
PolePlant, good idea to try to refine your skiing technique. Lots of skiers don't or won't imagine how much more fun they could have by doing some tuning of their technique. Not many of us are beyond tuning. Skiing is not an intuitive activity for the vast majority of us humans, it consists of a lot of counter-intuitive moves. This is why self-taught skiers end up on a plateau of non-improvement, because they have used intuitive movements and now are limited by the products of their intuition.

A stem is the product of trying to force your skis into parallel because you have seen others making parallel turns and want to do that -- but aren't sure how it's done. It's a halfway house move that is very counterproductive when trying to reach higher levels of skiing. It's also an intuitive move for many self-taught skiers.

When I read your original post it reads to me like you are trying to superimpose things you've read on the internet, like you place them atop your skiing and try to make sense of it all. It reads like you've seen some jargon and movement description and are trying to push those words and phrases onto your skiing.

Skiing is more about feel, managing pressure, timing of movements, accuracy of movements.

The words we use to describe things are just words. They aren't the movements themselves.

Please scrape up some coin and go see an instructor. Let him describe what he sees in your skiing. And then go from there. Skidude72's advice is like an insider-trading stock tip. Get over to Buller and work with someone who will give you plenty of ideas and things to play with in your skiing technique.

Meanwhile as a general idea I suggest that you should work on a flattish ("bunny slope") pitch and experiment with railroad track turns, sideslips and pivot slips to get a sense of how your edges are tools for slicing and feathering, not just big bulldozer blades to push a bunch of snow out of the way or grind yourself to a stop.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 

Not sure if I made myself clear sorry.

 

Some more videos might help.

 

Didnt learn to ski by watching other people, and from 1965 to 2010 I have skied the same way..

 

Here is some video from 2009 skiing the old way.

 

 

 

 

It is only last season and a bit Ive been trying the edged turns by leaning the skis over.

 

And only then did the issue of the inside leg turning in start.

 

Rail road trails, yes I get that.

 

See rear view

 

 

If you look at front view here you see the leg turned in.

 

 

 

After that video I get a tip about angulating the inside knee a bit and the helped get the inside ski parallel in turns.

 

But that did not cure it initiating turns and the tip is still turned in going in to the turn.

 

 

 

So the question is, are my feet to far appart, and is my inside foot too far forward going in to turns.

 

If I can get an answer on that it would be helpfull to me.

 

And one day when my ship comes in I'll be sure to take the advice given here and go and get private lessons.

But till then Ill have to do with what i can scrape up off the net.

 

After reading a few other reviews here I was under the impression it was not wrong of me to ask for advice on those specific questions posed, if it is well Im sure sorry to have wasted your time.

Thanks all the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #6 of 17

G'day Pole,

 

If I've understood your request correctly, you are asking if your stemming is caused by pushing the inside foot too far forward and if your stance is too wide.

 

First off, I would call your turns "wedge christies" vs "stem" turns because you steer your feet into the "^" (wedge) position vs step into that position. Second, advancing one foot forward does not cause a wedge position. Offset between the position of the feet creates what we call tip lead (one ski tip ahead of the other). A good guideline (not a rule) is that a line drawn from ski tip to ski tip should be parallel to a line drawn from shoulder to shoulder. Lastly, in America we teach that stance width should be "functional". That means the width should match the intent. I see your stance width get wider when you need more balance and get narrower when you don't. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

With respect to the edging turns, there are two basic movements that you need to incorporate into your skiing:

-finishing your turns with your skis pointed more to the side of the trail than your upper body (i.e. the tip lead tip above)

-tipping both skis simultaneously onto the downhill (new inside) edges to start the next turn.

There's a lot more to it then these two items, but if you can get these two done you are well on your way to making rounder, more edged, less effort turns.

 

 

BTW - asking your mate to video you in the bumps would qualify as cruel and unusual punishment over  here. It's amazing the camera survived.

 

 

post #7 of 17

I'm not an instructor, and don't feel qualified to talk about the specifics of your skiing.

But I do feel qualified to talk about the general situation, since like you I had an "old school" style, until one day I became aware of modern technique and decided I wanted some...

 

The new movement patterns can't get grafted on top of your old patterns -- they have to replace them. 

"First we have to un-learn how to ski."

post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 

Hi Rusty

 

Yes you are right the ski is steering into the outside ski.

Ive been doing indoor skiing to keep ski fitness up this off season and due to the nature of it thing like that become evident.

The inside ski is steering late for sure and its caught me on the mat many times at first, Ive been working on improving this to get the inside ski turning earlier and its going ok.

 

Ive been narrowing the stance a bit too which makes it easier.

I am glad you say that about stance width because im not comfortable with my feet that wide appart and took some effort to force then appart, old habits die hard, and on bumps I dont have them appart so I doubted the idea I have to have a wide stance always wehn carving.

 

But the inside ski steering is still a bit late and takes till mid turn to get them parallel.

Its got to the point I am getting off the inside ski and feathering it around to keep it parallel but not happy with that and it seems counter to the aim of steering the inside sooner.

 

I got the thinking maybe I am leading the inside tip too much so while the outside is starting to turn the inside one is not

Or

The outside steers but the inside is still pushing forward into tip lead and going straight ahead for that period and thus steering late.

 

And was thinking if I pull that lead inside tip back a bit it using a bit more bend on the inside ankle might help stop the lag on the inside steering.

The other though was that leading the tip too much might be causing the rear edge to be weighted more than the tip edge and thus late steering.

 

I was going to try that drill of lifting the heel and steering the inside tip around only to see if that helps some..

Appreciate your thougths on that.

 

 

My buddy with the cam is one of those guys who resists all instructions and guidance.

In that video as he comes up to me at the steeper run I called out to him to go down the other run that is less steep and ends at the same lift.

He shoots past me saying "no Ill be right down here" and then fell over the edge as you see inthe vid, just as the last word left his lips.

Note lower I am going down moguls slowly with arms out ahead, I am stressing to him to keep his hands in front and take it slowly.

Ignored it, next turn his arm drops back, shoulders rotate and down he goes.

I give up, and its been about 10 years now.

 

But to his credit he goes all day, never stays down long and never complains about injuries.

And at the end of a day falling down every run he'll tell me that was the best day skiing he had all year.

Saying to him to ski slower and concentrate and catch him up in a few runs just fails, he insists on keeping up and as you can see he throws everything at it.

I put the camera on him so he can look at it and see how badly he is going for himself.

Not sure if itll work to get him in a class lesson, maybe this year smile.gif

 

Ive got some other video of him busting a move (I say with toungue in cheek) down a steeper narrower bump run.

 

Anyway thanks for the advice and reviewing the vids.

Ill work on those points you've add.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 

Hi mdf

 

When I started this edged turning I was prepared to throw out everything if that what it takes.

And one thing I can see now that Rusty point to is I am still skiing the fall line and not across it enough completing turns fully which Ill be working on next time.

 

But I think that I may have made a mistake when it comes ot stance assuming it always has to be a wide stance to carve.

So far appart it feels close to doing the splits.

So Ill be happy to get the feet back closer in future and see what that yields.

 

 

post #10 of 17
Thread Starter 

And just for a laugh here is a video of the same buddy of mine mentioned above down a steeper narrower run that ws a little icy.

 

Video is poor qual and it overcast.

 

See at 40 seconds

 

I managed to flip his tips up as he sailed past to get him to roll.

 

He inisted he wanted to try something harder than he had skied so far, he was warned as usual and as usual ignored it..

 

 

 

post #11 of 17

Pole,

 

With respect to wedge christies, the narrower the wedge, the easier it is to steer the skis into parallel. Also, the narrower the wedge, the easier it is for movement of the hips to the inside of the next turn to cause flattening of the new inside ski. That also makes it easier to steer the ski into parallel. As the wedge gets narrower, the idea is that the matching of skis into parallel occurs earlier. The ultimate goal of learning this way is to use the hip movement to enable lower body tipping movements to cause parallel skis to change edges (i.e. never get into the wedge). The danger here is that you learn to turn only through foot steering. If you get better at tipping the skis on their new edges early in the turn (i.e. engage both edges on the downhill side) and weighting the outside ski and staying in balance, then you will find that the skis turn you more and you will need to turn them (through foot steering) less. The role of the inside ski is to guide as it start from behind the outside ski and finishes ahead, but the guiding movements should be subtle and patient as opposed to an obvious steering sensation. Stance width should change in response to conditions. In powder and bumps we generally use a narrower stance.

post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 

Ill get the feet back together a bit more and try that.

I assume the other part you refer to is staying in the turn a bit longer to let the skis steer under me and get on the new edges sooner.

 

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 

Thread mining here.

 

Now a few seasons on Ive managed to get my carving sorted out.

 

Most of the problem was lack of articulation at the hips, since resolving that I can now roll the skis over at a good steep angle and getting a lot more edge and loading.

 

The other technique I'm working with is tipping the inside ski at the start of turn and steering it then progressively loading the outside ski to get even footed by the fall line and more on the outside ski in the lower part of turns.

It works well and get a good confident edging through turns, not a hint of skid at high speed and feel like on rails.

 

Also holding turns a bit later to arrest speed was one thing that helped.

Also Ive stopped using my poles and don't need to swing my arms at all to counter, the skis just do it all and upper body pretty static.

 

Got a bit of video at Falls Creek here in Australia 2015 late season in September

Put the cam on my terminally intermediate buddy to try and get some video so I can see what I'm doing in it, and to buzz him a few times for laughs.

 

My Buller my home hill was done for and Falls Creek still had some snow on it, its a bit flat, we call it Flat Creek but it was the best going late in the season.

 

I'm the blue parka ahead of him.

 

 

post #14 of 17

Poleplanted,

 

From what very little I can see, you are now using your edges and doing some carving. It looks a lot better than your technique from 2012.

 

A friendly word of advice, the way the video was shot does not work for critiquing your skiing. Either you need to slow down and stick right in front of your buddy, which will still be bouncy, or the camera man needs to be stationary downhill and you need to ski to him. Stationary is the best and works really well if the camera can be zoomed to keep the right framing. If no zoom, do a lot of turns when you get close to the camera. Take a look at some other's videos to see how they are shooting them. 

 

Without a decent view of what you are doing, nobody can make any judgements and offer any feedback.

post #15 of 17

I'd like to add a bit to what Rusty said, hopefully without covering the same ground.  Getting to a more modern technique isn't just about fixing the wedge christie, it is about learning how to use the skis more efficiently. A lot of the difference between old school and new school is about the timing and synchronization as well as adapting movements. The movements and timing of them have to be more precisely integrated into the turn shape, which is a concept that is often not addressed.  And while video can give you feedback, you probably need a *very* well trained instructor to help you achieve your goals.  

 

Good luck. 

post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bttocs View Post
 

Poleplanted,

 

From what very little I can see, you are now using your edges and doing some carving. It looks a lot better than your technique from 2012.

 

A friendly word of advice, the way the video was shot does not work for critiquing your skiing. Either you need to slow down and stick right in front of your buddy, which will still be bouncy, or the camera man needs to be stationary downhill and you need to ski to him. Stationary is the best and works really well if the camera can be zoomed to keep the right framing. If no zoom, do a lot of turns when you get close to the camera. Take a look at some other's videos to see how they are shooting them. 

 

Without a decent view of what you are doing, nobody can make any judgements and offer any feedback.

 

Yes its hard to get someone to run the cam and he skis pretty slow by my rate. But for that video I was just having a bit of fun bombing the cam from behind.

I need to get a decent hand held cam and take turns with him to film each other from stationary position.

The GoPro is heavily fish eyed.

post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vindibona1 View Post
 

I'd like to add a bit to what Rusty said, hopefully without covering the same ground.  Getting to a more modern technique isn't just about fixing the wedge christie, it is about learning how to use the skis more efficiently. A lot of the difference between old school and new school is about the timing and synchronization as well as adapting movements. The movements and timing of them have to be more precisely integrated into the turn shape, which is a concept that is often not addressed.  And while video can give you feedback, you probably need a *very* well trained instructor to help you achieve your goals.  

 

Good luck. 

The wedge actually isn't a wedge, skis are parallel, found out its the GoPro.

The centre of the lens is ok but the edges of the lens do some serious tombstone distortion.

I found this out by pointing the camera straight down to look at my legs and could see tips and tails and noticed the tips converging and the tails converging too, the skis are sure not banana shaped so that leaves lens distortion

Also answers the question I had about rear view shots that showed clean tracks a ski width which didn't make sense if the skis were not parallel throughout turns. ie wedging.

So GoPro for video critique is not a good idea because of the distortion, on your head it farther away from the skis so not as bad but chest mount its worse and if you wear it even lower even worse.

I need to get a hand held and get one of the others to hold it and do runs past.

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