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avalanche

post #1 of 152
2/19/12 at 2:37pm
Thread Starter 

3 people were killed in an avalanche near Stevens Pass and 1 near Alpental  Apparently they were skiing out of bounds. http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/02/two-people-dead-others-missing-in-avalanche-at-stevens-pass/

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post #2 of 152
2/19/12 at 2:50pm

Wow.... brutal news. 

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post #3 of 152
2/19/12 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 

we have had over 18" of snow in the last 24 hours and 2 feet in last 48.  The weather had been warm up until the last couple of days during the recent storm, so that may have contributed to the avalanche danger.

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post #4 of 152
2/19/12 at 4:31pm

Death toll is climbing

 

frown.gif Terrible day.  Hoping to hear from all our known PNW skiers that they are OK.

 

 

Quote:

Four dead in separate avalanches at Stevens and Snoqualmie passes

Three experiences skiers and a snowboarder were killed in separate avalanches around noon Sunday — one in an out-of-bounds area at the Stevens Pass ski resort and the other in an out-of-bounds area at Alpental at Snoqualmie Summit.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017551390_avalanche20m.html

 

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post #5 of 152
2/19/12 at 4:51pm

If the snowpack is sketch with new snowfall, it is generally considered wise to wait one or two days before skiing it. very sorry for the loss of life.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomO View Post

we have had over 18" of snow in the last 24 hours and 2 feet in last 48.  The weather had been warm up until the last couple of days during the recent storm, so that may have contributed to the avalanche danger.



 

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post #6 of 152
2/19/12 at 5:25pm

Tragic day. I can say with a degree of confidence that none of the fatalities in the Tunnel Creek slide near Stevens Pass were regulars here. Very broadly speaking, they were well known, respected and loved members of the snow sliding community. They will most certainly be missed.

 

There is no need for second guessing anything or anyone by folks here. The people involved included extremely seasoned backcountry & big terrain skiers. I'm sure at some point there will be an informed and meaningful analysis as a result of this incident.

 

Several epic regulars had a fine powder day inbounds at Stevens today (although my day, and many others',  took a turn for the worse when word of the slide came through...). 

 

 

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post #7 of 152
2/19/12 at 6:14pm

You know the risks.  You make the call.  You pay the piper. 

RIP.

Sad day for the friends and relatives, my condolences to all of them.frown.gif

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post #8 of 152
2/19/12 at 6:24pm

Another news story below.  My heart goes out to the families and friends of those lost.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/19/washington-avalanche-2012-skiers-killed_n_1287900.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl6%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D136962

 

http://unofficialnetworks.com/3-dead-8-missing-stevens-pass-avalanche-77084/


Edited by quant2325 - 2/19/12 at 9:54pm
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post #9 of 152
2/19/12 at 6:29pm

Sad news :(  These guys were icons in the Freeski world.

 

RIP

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post #10 of 152
2/19/12 at 6:50pm

http://espn.go.com/action/freeskiing/story/_/id/7593035/avalanche-washington-stevens-pass-kills-three

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post #11 of 152
2/19/12 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post

http://espn.go.com/action/freeskiing/story/_/id/7593035/avalanche-washington-stevens-pass-kills-three


"According to both Michelson and pro skier Elyse Saugstad, who was also in the party of 13, the slide occurred after a number of skiers had already skied the top section of the line, which funnels into the Tunnel Creek drainage."

 

 

 

   

That line right there shows why you have to always be vigilant. Tracks doesn't mean it's safe. Obviously they were taking every reasonable precaution but it's so easy to get to a line see tracks on it and assume your safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


my condolences go out to all that were affected

 

 

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post #12 of 152
2/19/12 at 7:45pm

No words, just sadness.

 

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post #13 of 152
2/19/12 at 8:05pm

Wow.

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post #14 of 152
2/19/12 at 8:30pm

 

Quote:
Saugstad and the three deceased skiers were carried between 2,000 and 3,000 vertical feet, she and Michelson estimated. Once she was caught, Saugstad immediately deployed an airbag from her backpack, a device she later credited with saving her life. When she came to rest, "I was completely buried except for my head and hands."
 

Here's the most convincing proof yet that the air bags really do work.  I would expect a lot more people to start wearing them.  So sad and tragic that the most rewarding and alluring ski experiences we seek can also suddenly turn so very devastating like this did.  Prayers for the families of the victims. 

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post #15 of 152
2/19/12 at 8:41pm

Wow. 

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post #16 of 152
2/19/12 at 10:56pm

I had the privilege to meet and hang out with Jim Jack several years ago.  Ironically we met during a four day avalanche training.  I found JJ to be a very smart and fun person to train and party with.  I didn't know him well, but genuinely liked him and enjoyed our time together.  I felt like he went out of his way to be nice to me.  I am deeply saddened to hear of his death.  This makes about a half dozen people I know who have died in avalanches.  About the same number in kayaking accidents.  Sadly we lost a veteran S&R member in a heli crash this week in JH.  This is a small town and I knew him as well.  Please be careful out there and enjoy every sandwich.

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post #17 of 152
2/20/12 at 6:02am


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
  Please be careful out there and enjoy every sandwich.


Sage advice and words to live by.

 

Condolences to the family and friends of the departed.

 

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post #18 of 152
2/20/12 at 8:22am

Some of my team skiers were in Stevens Pass yesterday.  I was a bit freaked thinking it was them.  It wasn't but that doesn't make it any better.  Godspeed and hope they are skiing deep powder in heaven.  

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post #19 of 152
2/20/12 at 9:13am

Very sad. I have yet to see it reported. Was the survivor of the slide the only one wearing a airbag? Or did the debris take its toll on the victims airbag?

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post #20 of 152
2/20/12 at 9:35am

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this was no accident.  In almost 100% of the cases, there is a series of avoidable poor decisions made that end in tragedy.

 

Avalanche danger was high above 5000 Feet Sunday and considerable below. 

from The NW  Weather and Avy Center  for Sunday and Monday.

 

http://www.nwac.us/archive/sabsea_2012-02-19-1507.html

 

And who wuould go out in the Alpental backcountry on a day like yesterday. Are you kiddin' me? confused.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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post #21 of 152
2/20/12 at 9:57am

I took a ski camp with Elyse Saugstad as one of the instructors last year.  Listening to her words is very sobering

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/19/10450796-survivor-of-deadly-washington-avalanche-it-was-like-a-washing-machine#.T0KEyb1wCiJ.twitter

 

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post #22 of 152
2/20/12 at 10:00am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this was no accident.  In almost 100% of the cases, there is a series of avoidable poor decisions made that end in tragedy.

 

Avalanche danger was high above 5000 Feet Sunday and considerable below. 

from The NW  Weather and Avy Center  for Sunday and Monday.

 

http://www.nwac.us/archive/sabsea_2012-02-19-1507.html

 

And who wuould go out in the Alpental backcountry on a day like yesterday. Are you kiddin' me? confused.gif

 


What is it with the internet? Even if we 'think' we know what happened, why is it so difficult to wait for the official report? By any definition, when someone dies on the hill whether an avy, a tree, etc... mistakes were made. And yes, pronouncing your judgement this early on does indeed sound very disrespectful. It's an easy knee jerk reaction and a way to validate whatever reason we weren't out there ourselves. Give it some time everyone. There are a lot of local professionals working on this. It will be very important to hear from those directly involved in both the accident and the rescue/recoveries.
 


Edited by markojp - 2/20/12 at 10:24am
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post #23 of 152
2/20/12 at 10:17am

Call it what you want. It is a tragic event.  Watching things unfold in real time at Stevens yesterday was truly heartbreaking. I mean really, really gut wrenching. The people involved were known and loved by many. And contributed much to our sport. It is a sad day.

 

As I said, I'm sure that there will be some form of informed and reasonable analysis. And when that is available we should learn what lessons we can - each within the context our abilities and risk tolerance. In that context it is worth noting that this was not about a bunch of clueless people wandering randomly out of bounds.  The folks involved were incredibly experienced. Some of those people arguably knew that terrain and snowpack as well as anyone. Pontificating and speculation from people who know little of the specific issues at hand, the people involved or the specific terrain will help no one. 

 

I, for one, would appreciate it if folks would refrain from the Monday morning quarterback thing. I am sure an analysis will eventually come from appropriate sources - and will help inform all of us in future decision making rather than confuse the issue.

 

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post #24 of 152
2/20/12 at 10:32am

Look, I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. I am truly sorry, when n tragedy like this happens to anyone, not just in the skiing communtiy.


 

BUT............................................  I have lived here for 53 years and skied at these areas here for 49 of them.

 

No need to over analyze or make excuses and wait for some highly technical analysis. It is really  very simple.  Lots of new snow over aan ice layer. Duh?

 

It was a highly risky day to be in any non-avalanche controlled back country area yesterday.  spindrift, I never expect you and I to see eye to eye on anything.  In your own words "Several epic regulars had a fine powder day inbounds at Stevens today"

 

You guys can be politically correct until the cows come home it's not going to change the facts. There is no Monday morning quarterbacking going on here. I would have looked at that report (or no even better, I knew without looking at the report things were extrememlyunstable yesterday)  How do you get to: Let's go out of bounds, it's a high avalanche danger day" and 11 other people say yeah, that's a great idea.Let's go! Good godfrey?

 

High avalanche danger above 5k and considerable below is all you need to know to stay out of these areas on a day like yesterday.

 

 

If these guys were that knowledgeable and experienced, then there egos got the best of them.

 

Those few turns were really worth this? Really?

 

What happened to common sense and accountability in this day and age?

 

The great news is the survivors!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

Call it what you want. It is a tragic event.  Watching things unfold in real time at Stevens yesterday was truly heartbreaking. I mean really, really gut wrenching. The people involved were known and loved by many. And contributed much to our sport. It is a sad day.

 

As I said, I'm sure that there will be some form of informed and reasonable analysis. And when that is available we should learn what lessons we can - each within the context our abilities and risk tolerance. In that context it is worth noting that this was not about a bunch of clueless people wandering randomly out of bounds.  The folks involved were incredibly experienced. Some of those people arguably knew that terrain and snowpack as well as anyone. Pontificating and speculation from people who know little of the specific issues at hand, the people involved or the specific terrain will help no one. 

 

I, for one, would appreciate it if folks would refrain from the Monday morning quarterback thing. I am sure an analysis will eventually come from appropriate sources - and will help inform all of us in future decision making rather than confuse the issue.

 



 

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post #25 of 152
2/20/12 at 10:36am

And were those turns worth it? I'm sure that there's not a person involved that would say they were. You're being unfortunately rhetorical.  There are times when one's opinions are best kept private. Out of some small sense of respect to those on the board that knew some of these folks, right now might be one even if you're certain you're 'right'. I'm sure your mom would agree. 


Edited by markojp - 2/20/12 at 10:57am
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post #26 of 152
2/20/12 at 10:58am

A quote from the NBC news brief by Saugstad

 

Saugstad told TODAY that the avalanche danger wasn't high when the group went out Sunday. She said they were all "experienced back-country skiers."

 

 

WOW!  I am going to qoute my earlier post.     "In almost 100% of the cases, there is a series of avoidable poor decisions made that end in tragedy."

 

 

The avy danger was High above 5k and since the slide was 2k feet and base of Stevens is at 4K , the were at least at 6K

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post #27 of 152
2/20/12 at 11:04am

Pat yourself on the head, hoist one up, and toast yourself. You're alive. They're not. You win. nonono2.gif   Speaking only for myself, it's time to reflect and think about my own choices that I've made over the years. 


Edited by markojp - 2/20/12 at 11:18am
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post #28 of 152
2/20/12 at 11:14am

Mark -
Not the point of any my posts.

 

If anything I wrote, gives any skier reason to pause and seriously reconsider their actions next time they are tempted to go out-of bounds in higly questionable conditions, incluidng myself and you too, then I have accomplished my goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Pat yourself on the head, hoist one up, and toast yourself. You're alive. They're not. You win. nonono2.gif



 

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post #29 of 152
2/20/12 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Mark -
Not the point of any my posts.

 

If anything I wrote, gives any skier reason to pause and seriously reconsider their actions next time they are tempted to go out-of bounds in higly questionable conditions,



or ski fast along the side of the trail near the trees, or race GS on a sub 35 meter ski, or leave the house without a helmet, or.......words.gif 

 

 

Being the seasoned pros they were (albeit not perfect) they knew the risks.  Saugstad wouldn't have been wearing the freakin' air bag if they really believed the risks weren't at least moderate if not high.

 

RIP.  This won't change the behavior of others, although we will likely see more folks wearing air bags.

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post #30 of 152
2/20/12 at 11:23am

... 


Edited by markojp - 2/20/12 at 12:06pm
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