looking for a ski - with 13m turning radius, but 80-90 underfoot

http://www.curtissportconnection.com/Snow_Blades.htm

Scott Crusade

Head Titan... 77 underfoot, but what's 3mm between friends? 

This is a tough nut to crack.  I've been working on it for the past few seasons.  There aren't a lot of options for wide deep sidecut skis that can provide really tight turn radii.  The manufacturers tend to lack "aggression" when it comes to designing skis for the masses.  They like to hang out in the 18-22m realm for anything wider than about 85mm underfoot.

That said, I'll second the Scott Crusade.  Your best bet to get a pair though is probably eBay.  Not many retailers in the U.S. carry Scott skis.  It's a shame since they make some really nice stuff.

Icelantic has made this a focus. not a ski I have ridden, just recalling the shape and sidecut.

Really the only ski in the Icelantic lineup that is truly a quick turner is the Shaman.  The other skis really don't differentiate themselves from the pack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukus 

maybe i should be more specific. I live on the ice-coast so some that can hold a edge on"hardpack"  But also has some flex for the bumps....

 

K2 Extreme or PE.  hart F17 Classic.  I recommend a larger turn radius (18-24) for bumps in general.  13 is too deep for most moderate to high speed carving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crgildart 

13 is too deep for most moderate to high speed carving.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodler 

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but not mine.

 

I get the 12's out for weaving through crowds carefully, 21s for leaving them in the dust on more open terrain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crgildart 

I get the 12's out for weaving through crowds carefully, 21s for leaving them in the dust on more open terrain.

Ahh, you're not really talking turn speed, you're talking turn size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukus 

maybe i should be more specific. I live on the ice-coast so some that can hold a edge on"hardpack"  But also has some flex for the bumps....

 

you do not want a 13m ski trust me on this.

Salomon PBR is a different approach, and is getting great reviews.

Not sure why you're so set on a super deep turning radius on a ski that wide. It will not be an advantage in bumps (ever noticed that dedicated bump skis are narrow and have very little side cut?), it will put an incredible amount of twisting torque on your knees at that width, and it won't be any grippier than a bunch of skis in the 80's with radii more in the 17-20 m range. Since grip is not about turning radius, but construction, especially resistance to torsion. After all, GS skis, which have been known to have decent grip, have radii up in the 24-28 m range. Finally, a softer ski, all else equal, will not grip as well as a stiffer ski. So in a way, you're asking for two incompatible qualities: Bumps + grip on ice. 

Two ways out: Early rise will allow you to have a stiffer, grippier ski that can still navigate bumps. Some early rise skis have surprisingly good grip, you might peruse the Elan Apex, Blizzard Bushwacker. Or a few twins can grip - Volkl Walls or Prophet 90's are decent, and Stockli Rotors are weirdly good - and will make you happier in bumps than a traditional tail. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodler 

Ahh, you're not really talking turn speed, you're talking turn size.

 

You bet I am. I'm talking both.   My iSS WCs start getting sketchy between 35 and 40 mph with the ~12 r.  A GS ski, or even my bump skis are more stable in the 40+ range.  However, a good skier can still throw a pretty tight shortswing on the longer radius bump skis thanks to the softer tips, it just isn't as tracked/railed like it would be on a SL ski.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyond 

Not sure why you're so set on a super deep turning radius on a ski that wide. It will not be an advantage in bumps (ever noticed that dedicated bump skis are narrow and have very little side cut?), it will put an incredible amount of twisting torque on your knees at that width, and it won't be any grippier than a bunch of skis in the 80's with radii more in the 17-20 m range. Since grip is not about turning radius, but construction, especially resistance to torsion. After all, GS skis, which have been known to have decent grip, have radii up in the 24-28 m range. Finally, a softer ski, all else equal, will not grip as well as a stiffer ski. So in a way, you're asking for two incompatible qualities: Bumps + grip on ice. 

Two ways out: Early rise will allow you to have a stiffer, grippier ski that can still navigate bumps. Some early rise skis have surprisingly good grip, you might peruse the Elan Apex, Blizzard Bushwacker. Or a few twins can grip - Volkl Walls or Prophet 90's are decent, and Stockli Rotors are weirdly good - and will make you happier in bumps than a traditional tail. 

there are circumstance where a softer ski will grip better especially if its only soft along its length.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Matta 

you do not want a 13m ski trust me on this.

Maybe he does....  Just b/c YOU don't want a short-radius ski doesn't mean the OP doesn't for his own reasons. 

Now maybe some of the points you and beyond raise make sense....but let him figure that out for himself. 
My tools are a lot different than yours.  And I'm just as happy w/mine as you are w/yours.

Nordica Fire Arrow 80.

Pro version if you're a bigger, stronger skier, ti version if not.

My personal favorite ski of all time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tch 

Quote:

Maybe he does....  Just b/c YOU don't want a short-radius ski doesn't mean the OP doesn't for his own reasons. 

 

Now maybe some of the points you and beyond raise make sense....but let him figure that out for himself. 
My tools are a lot different than yours.  And I'm just as happy w/mine as you are w/yours.

 

 

Let me refrase noone(not just me) wants a short radius skis for off trail skiing especially bump skiing.  

The tighest radius I have ever been happy with is 17.5 meters. Maybe some people like tighter but there choice of gear and then there choice of technique IS holding them back. 13 meters skis that are no race stock SL skis tend be nearly unmanagable off trail unless its an old B5 at slower speed.

Leakus to get tighter turn radius get a rockered skis and get it soft along its lenght. For instance Blizzard "the one" will for sure turn tighter than your Ac50s and ski bumps better Ac50 which is a tank and one IMO one of the worst Off trail east coast skis ever made. If your using the new pair of  "13m" ski for bumps tight radius are going to make you work much harder. 

Get a mid fat twin maybe with some rocker and go to town with new tech. IMO the Mid fat twin is the best all around ski that are being made today. Dynstar Distorter 6th sense is my personal favorite it crushes bumps and carves groomers great as it literally humms to you. 

http://icelanticboards.com/skis/shaman/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodler 

Really the only ski in the Icelantic lineup that is truly a quick turner is the Shaman.  The other skis really don't differentiate themselves from the pack.

12R at 161cm, and 110 underfoot.  

SkiLogik Frontburner is is 84 underfoot and 14R https://skilogik.com/skis-raceroom-frontburner.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

Salomon PBR is a different approach, and is getting great reviews.

Interestingly, I demoed these the other day (on our very limited terrain and lots of ice!), and I didn't really like them on hardpack.  They'd mostly hold, but it was just a weird feeling underfoot.  Where there was loose granular stuff, though, they were a lot of fun.  They basically turned the choppy, sugary crap on our steeper runs into a pretty smooth ride.

But I cannot for the life of me imagine wanting a turn radius that small on a wide ski.  What are you looking to do, race SL with something 90mm underfoot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Matta 

 

Get a mid fat twin maybe with some rocker and go to town with new tech. IMO the Mid fat twin is the best all around ski that are being made today. Dynstar Distorter 6th sense is my personal favorite it crushes bumps and carves groomers great as it literally humms to you. 

 

How does the Distorter 6th Sense compare to the Rotor 84 or Prophet 90?  I think you used to own the former, maybe been on the latter;  any other comparisons?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairToMiddlin 

How does the Distorter 6th Sense compare to the Rotor 84 or Prophet 90?  I think you used to own the former, maybe been on the latter;  any other comparisons?

 

The Rotor 84 is more damp for sure and has might have more edge grip, but the distortor has gobs of power and edge grip in Gs turns. The 179cm has a 24 meter sidecut and its feels alot more secure at speed than say my Mag 8.7 but doesnt not auto carve as well. Its hooks up very much like wider GS ski with less edge grip IE you have to tip early and make sure you have enough angualtion so the skis actually bends and cuts.

In short turn the rocker(which is very low and long ala blizzard flipcore with out the flip core) the ski is easy to feather but can be chore on flatter groomer on steeper groomers its easy to bend the ski so it work, on flatter groomers it feel like work.  the straight sidecut makes its great bump basher as well. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

Salomon PBR is a different approach, and is getting great reviews.

Now that sounds like a great idea for a cross-pollinated viral marketing campaign!

I have no personal experience (or interest), and a discussion involving this brand of skis generated 

more heat than light in another thread, still, it's close to what you asked for, so...

178cm = 134 - 86 - 113  TR = 14.2M

Might be a lot softer than your AC50, though.  ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc-ski 

Now that sounds like a great idea for a cross-pollinated viral marketing campaign!

 

 

Now I'm thirsty...

The CO BBR demo rep for Salomon stayed with us a several days and of course I had to test drive them. Super 'turny' and fun with good hold, versatile in the bumps, crud, hard pack, trees and powder. However, I could not get my head around the missile tip shape and kept expecting to catch them in a bump or snag in the trees.