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Idiot question time...

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
OK, admittedly, this is coming from an intermediate skier who wants to learn to carve in a hurry...I've taken lessons and continue to do so to learn to carve more, but still can't get there.

In golf there is all sorts of technology in a driver to give you 300 yards (haha), but wondering with all this terrific technology, is there a ski out there that can make me a better carver? Or better stated, what's the easiest carving ski out there?
post #2 of 12

What are you skiing on now? The first two that come to mind for me are Kastle RX and Head WC iSpeed. A slalom ski is very carvy too, but it does require a certain amount of athleticism to "keep up " with the ski. Something in that 16m range can be easy to carve without having to relive the TRON lightbike scene, or achieve mach loony speeds.

 

That said, I kinda doubt that the skis are the problem. I'd love to try and help, I think you ski at Stratton, right? There are some good pros down there too.

post #3 of 12

A few pointers:

 

To carve you want a ski that is torsionally stiff.  This is because as you tip the ski underfoot...say 10 degrees, a torsionally soft ski will twist underload and as such the tip and tail might only tip say 5 degrees...not good if you are trying to get the ski on edge and carve.  The benefit to a torsionally soft ski is it is forgiving...ie if you "wobble" and the ski underfoot tips again say 10 degrees, it will only tip 5 at the tip and tail...thus making the ski seem stable.

 

It is easy to "carve" on an ice skate.  So skis that resemble ice skates are easier to carve...ie fat skis wont help...the narrower underfoot the better.  Elan used to make (not sure if they still do) skis that were like 40mm wide...(yes wide) under foot.  Almost impossible to not carve on these.  If you cant find these...you can create the same effect by increasing your "lift". Ie riser plates and/or high stack bindings.  FIS limits to 55mm from the base edge, but you can likley find higher risers for just fun skiing. 

 

You should be able to find skis at 64mm wide underfoot no problem thou...and add risers....would be the easiest to carve on.

 

But the best thing is to keep with the lessons.  What skis do you have now?

post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by swisstrader View Post

OK, admittedly, this is coming from an intermediate skier who wants to learn to carve in a hurry...I've taken lessons and continue to do so to learn to carve more, but still can't get there.
In golf there is all sorts of technology in a driver to give you 300 yards (haha), but wondering with all this terrific technology, is there a ski out there that can make me a better carver? Or better stated, what's the easiest carving ski out there?


I'm not sure what you mean by "in a hurry", but that might be your first problem. It takes time.

When skiers do it right, it looks effortless. In reality they are moving their body in every plane from their little toes up.

Most folks take years to get this down (I'm sure everyone will start chiming in with how they know of or taught someone in 30 minutes).

Video analysis really helps with this. Not so much for us but for you. What you think you a doing and what your "probably" doing are usually two different things. I speak from experience. You need to see what you are really doing.

When it comes to "buying" a turn, what helped me immensely was when I put my 170 & 176 skis away and got on a pair of 155 SL skis. Learning is almost always easier on shorter skis. Once you " get it", transferring the skill to a longer ski will be fairly easy.

Ken
post #5 of 12


i went from skiing parallel skided turns to carving a turn on its edge(not perfect but i was carving through my turns) in my 1st few runs of being shown by a ski instructor in Meribell France, i'd played ice hockey through out my junior years and i seriously believe that helped me with dialing in the correct feelings for carving on skis,
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


I'm not sure what you mean by "in a hurry", but that might be your first problem. It takes time.
When skiers do it right, it looks effortless. In reality they are moving their body in every plane from their little toes up.
Most folks take years to get this down (I'm sure everyone will start chiming in with how they know of or taught someone in 30 minutes).
Video analysis really helps with this. Not so much for us but for you. What you think you a doing and what your "probably" doing are usually two different things. I speak from experience. You need to see what you are really doing.
When it comes to "buying" a turn, what helped me immensely was when I put my 170 & 176 skis away and got on a pair of 155 SL skis. Learning is almost always easier on shorter skis. Once you " get it", transferring the skill to a longer ski will be fairly easy.
Ken


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by swisstrader View Post

OK, admittedly, this is coming from an intermediate skier who wants to learn to carve in a hurry...I've taken lessons and continue to do so to learn to carve more, but still can't get there.
In golf there is all sorts of technology in a driver to give you 300 yards (haha), but wondering with all this terrific technology, is there a ski out there that can make me a better carver? Or better stated, what's the easiest carving ski out there?


there is no technology to give any one a 300 yard drive in golf, its the same as with carving on skis, you have to learn the technique to hit the ball far, fyi, the average driving distance on the european and pga tours is bellow 300 yards
 

 

post #6 of 12

Fisher WC SC.

Head Super Shape (not Super Shape Magnum, not Super Shape Speed)

Ross Radical 9 SL

Any Racing SL ski

Almost any top end 1-step below FIS sl ski, but not any ski with a marketed "Dual Radius".

 

post #7 of 12


Ghost,

what exactly is duel radius?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Fisher WC SC.

Head Super Shape (not Super Shape Magnum, not Super Shape Speed)

Ross Radical 9 SL

Any Racing SL ski

Almost any top end 1-step below FIS sl ski, but not any ski with a marketed "Dual Radius".

 



 

post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossymcg View Post


Ghost,

what exactly is duel radius?
 



 


A statistic that describes the skis shape is the side cut radius.  It is the radius of a circlle  of best fit that fits the edge of the ski (not exactly, but closer than any other circle) when the ski is flat on the snow and the circle is a circle you could draw on the snow.  Skis with fatter tips than tails are not new, but in an effort to satisfy the needs of people who want to make tight turns and higher speed wider turns, some companies have taken to making skis with a more pronounced difference between tip and tail, and fitting one circle to the front half of the ski and another to the rear, with the front curve having a much tighter radius, and marketing this type of ski as a "dual radius" ski.

 

If you already know how to carve railroad tracks, you can easily do so with these skis; all it takes is a little bit of control over pressure and fore-aft weight distribution.

If you don't have the skills already, they will want to scrub a little speed off with the tips when on hard packed snow, and that's what they will do unless you command them to do otherwise (solution is to keep the front of the ski firmly pressed into the snow, assuming you already know to tip the skis and not try to turn them).

 

 

post #9 of 12


but what is the advantage of having a duel radius then?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post


A statistic that describes the skis shape is the side cut radius.  It is the radius of a circlle  of best fit that fits the edge of the ski (not exactly, but closer than any other circle) when the ski is flat on the snow and the circle is a circle you could draw on the snow.  Skis with fatter tips than tails are not new, but in an effort to satisfy the needs of people who want to make tight turns and higher speed wider turns, some companies have taken to making skis with a more pronounced difference between tip and tail, and fitting one circle to the front half of the ski and another to the rear, with the front curve having a much tighter radius, and marketing this type of ski as a "dual radius" ski.

 

If you already know how to carve railroad tracks, you can easily do so with these skis; all it takes is a little bit of control over pressure and fore-aft weight distribution.

If you don't have the skills already, they will want to scrub a little speed off with the tips when on hard packed snow, and that's what they will do unless you command them to do otherwise (solution is to keep the front of the ski firmly pressed into the snow, assuming you already know to tip the skis and not try to turn them).

 

 



 

post #10 of 12

The advantage is with a little skill, you CAN carve railroad tracks at the smaller radius using that dual radius ski, and the ski won't be out of it's element at the larger radius (also advantage for ski resort, is you will be skiing slower and therefore more safely until you get the skills built up 'cause you won't be carving arc-2-arc).  However, it won't do either as well as the dedicated radius ski.  IMHO, you would be better off with a 17 m ski and a lot of skill, than a dual radius ski and a little skill.   To get the skills, get a 13 m ski as a learning to turn ski; I think a 13 m ski is great, so long as it's a top-end ski.  Once you have it down, you can make 17 m ski do just about anything you want.

post #11 of 12


im not down on all the ski bumf, but to be honest i was about to say that, i can get my skis to turn most carved shapes depending how much i lean in to them(tighter drop my hips lower not so tight keep hips higher), so with a duel radius depending where i distribute my weight (further forward or slightly back) it will have an effect on the shape they carve?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

The advantage is with a little skill, you CAN carve railroad tracks at the smaller radius using that dual radius ski, and the ski won't be out of it's element at the larger radius (also advantage for ski resort, is you will be skiing slower and therefore more safely until you get the skills built up 'cause you won't be carving arc-2-arc).  However, it won't do either as well as the dedicated radius ski.  IMHO, you would be better off with a 17 m ski and a lot of skill, than a dual radius ski and a little skill.   To get the skills, get a 13 m ski as a learning to turn ski; I think a 13 m ski is great, so long as it's a top-end ski.  Once you have it down, you can make 17 m ski do just about anything you want.



 

post #12 of 12

It's a little more complicated than that.

 

On a hard surface, mind you, the angle at which you tip the skis will determine the radius that gets dialed up.  If you do not pressure the front half of the ski firmly, the tips won't be carving arc-2-arc, as they will be trying to dial up a tighter turn than the one you are making.  The tails may or may not be carving in their grooves.  So in a way, applying more pressure to the front, when in the 'front-skid rear-carve" mode will tighten up the turn, and it will tighten the turn if you are not carving arc-2arc at all, but it's not going to change the turn size if you are carving pure arc-2-arc turns to begin with. 

 

The ski has enough flexibility that, provided you have good enough pressure control,  it will carve pure arc-2-arc turns at the radius dictated by the front half of the ski, even if the rear half would rather be carving a wider turn.

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