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NEW JACKSON HOLE LIFT - 2012-13 SEASON

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

http://unofficialnetworks.com/jackson-hole-high-speed-quad-20122013-season-75904/

 

 

 

Jackson Hole will be investing $5 million in a high speed quad that will replace the existing Casper Triple. 

  • Ride time drops from 10 minutes to 3:30 = You’ll be able to crush almost 3 times as much Fresh ‘Roy.
  • Construction will be this summer, planned opening for 2012/2013 reason.
  • $5 mil cheeseburger may become featured menu item at the Casper Restaurant.

Jackson Hole Mountain Resort, Teton Village, WY: Tuesday, February 14, 2012-

In an effort to broaden the appeal of Jackson Hole Mountain Resort (JHMR), its Board of Directors approved a plan that will replace the Casper triple chairlift with a new high speed 4-passenger detachable chair this summer. Along with the lift installation, the Casper trail network will be enhanced for intermediate skiing and riding with summer grooming and widening of several trails in the area.

“The Casper area is the heart of our intermediate skiing. Not only are we installing a state of the art lift but we will be doing summer grooming and expanding existing trails to make them much more attractive to intermediate skiers,” stated Jerry Blann, President of Jackson Hole Mountain Resort.

This expansion of intermediate terrain is part of an overall plan to attract more intermediate skiers and riders, and help the resort retain more of its guests. Intermediate skiers and snowboarders are the largest segment of the United States skiing and riding population. “To grow winter visitation we need to appeal to more intermediates,” added Blann. This is not the only recent investment targeted for intermediates. The grooming fleet was upgraded and increased this past summer with the purchase of six new grooming vehicles, including another winch groomer. Future plans call for adding even more vehicles to the grooming fleet. Snowmaking over the past two years has been expanded and capabilities increased which has helped the resort open more terrain early in the season and also allows for more extensive grooming. Additionally, the new Marmot Lift, installed last summer, services intermediate terrain from the top of the Gondola to the base of the Thunder lift.

“This is an aggressive move by the resort and the Kemmerer Family and shows the continued willingness to invest in the resort,” continued Blann. “Since taking ownership of the resort, the Family has invested over $124 million, $13 million of which has been invested since the installation of the new Tram, which was completed in December of 2008 at a cost of $31 million. “These last investments were made in a down economy and shows the commitment and belief the Kemmerer’s have in Wyoming and the Jackson Hole region,” explained Blann. “And all investments have been for on mountain services and improvements.”

This announcement follows a strong January which saw skier visits exceed January 2011 levels. This is especially impressive as last January benefited immensely from record snow levels and a season that opened “top to bottom; wall
to wall.”

The base of the new Casper lift will be in the same location as the current lift, however the top terminal will move northward to the opposite side of the Lift Line trail.

Huzzah, intermediates!

 

post #2 of 24

Ok..... this is Casper lift...

http://riftwave.net/phpalbum/main.php?cmd=image&var1=jh2012%2FIMG_8991.jpg&var2=0_100

 

The runs face east, so moving the top terminal northward means edging it towards the right in that photo..... just barely on the other side of the hut?

 

main.php?cmd=image&var1=jh2012%2FIMG_8991.jpg&var2=700_90

post #3 of 24

On about the fourth day at JH I usually ride the Casper and meet up with friends for a 2pm hot chocolate in the lodge at the base of Casper.  I can see for the intermediates this will be a huge improvement.   This is smart business move for JH.  JH will have it all. 

post #4 of 24
With every chair packed and 1/3 the ride time this spells lousy snow conditions FASTER. Brilliant!
post #5 of 24

Right now the chair is old, slow, and uncomfortable.  It's frankly an embarrassment.  Casper has great terrain that is underutilized.  I generally am not a fan of high speed lifts, but this is overdue.  They will need to give the Casper restaurant a face lift next.  I would also like to see Eagles Rest upgraded, it's about as old as I am.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post

With every chair packed and 1/3 the ride time this spells lousy snow conditions FASTER. Brilliant!


 

post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Right now the chair is old, slow, and uncomfortable.  It's frankly an embarrassment.  



 



I am as nostalgic about old lifts as anyone, but this is really true. It is really small for a triple, too! It's funny watching three big guys sit in one. Very cozy.

 

When I was there last month, I was asked to fill out a fairly extensive customer survey at lunch one day. At the end it asked for suggestions, and my friend who lives there (and has kids) told me to put down "Replace Casper chair!"   I guess they listened. ;-) No, I'm sure it is a popular thing among locals, because even they are intermediates at one point...

post #7 of 24

What are the local's opinon of Jerry B?  I was thrilled when he left ASC.

post #8 of 24

Agree, lift is slow and small.  3 guys on the chair ends up with a 10 min fight for space.  For many riders, this will allow them to get more vert on groomers.  For those who get in the little tree lines off Casper, it means they'll be tracked out in no time.  Tradeoff...

post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post

Agree, lift is slow and small.  3 guys on the chair ends up with a 10 min fight for space.  For many riders, this will allow them to get more vert on groomers.  For those who get in the little tree lines off Casper, it means they'll be tracked out in no time.  Tradeoff...

 

Uphill lift capacity may not increase as much as you think.  In most cases time between chairs loading and unloading is about the same.  Chair lifts never have a load/unload time faster than 6 seconds between chairs.  For the most part this means Casper lift will go from a triple to  a quad.  This probably equates to an up hill lift capacity increase of 25 to 30 percent.   


 

 

post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

 

Uphill lift capacity may not increase as much as you think.  In most cases time between chairs loading and unloading is about the same.  Chair lifts never have a load/unload time faster than 6 seconds between chairs.  For the most part this means Casper lift will go from a triple to  a quad.  This probably equates to an up hill lift capacity increase of 25 to 30 percent.   


 

 


Ride time goes from 10 minutes to 3.5.  Don't you think that equates to quite a bit more capacity - even ignoring the fact that there will be space for 25% more butts?

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post

With every chair packed and 1/3 the ride time this spells lousy snow conditions FASTER. Brilliant!


Do you ski the Casper chairlift a lot?

 

Did highspeed quads ruin Grand Targhee?

 

post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post

Ride time goes from 10 minutes to 3.5.  Don't you think that equates to quite a bit more capacity - even ignoring the fact that there will be space for 25% more butts?

Bob, my response about lift capacity assumes there is always a long lift line.  Its lift capacity math not taking into account real lift stuff like  no lift line, number of laps someone may take on the new Casper lift with no lift line, how tired they will get, or when they may move on to another lift.  Each year I have skied a week at JH for the last 9 years.  During the week I may ride the Casper lift a total of 2 times and I have never seen a line more than couple chairs deep.  My older 65+ buddy rides Casper a lot more than me during the week,  but than again he can only ski so many laps a day.  He typically rides the slower Casper lift to take a break and sit down on the chair lift  for an extra 5 minutes .  biggrin.gif  With the new lift that won't be possible.  Will that mean more laps for him during the week..  Maybe.

 

How does all this equate into more laps on trails served by the Casper I am not sure.  If the new JH Casper lift can attract additional families that have intermediate skiers, then JH may see increased total skier visits.  This could mean Casper lift will increase capacity.  I don't think this is a bad thing for the TRAM, Thunder, Sublette skiers and riders.  Unless of course the total increased families brings more expert skiers.  mad.gif

 

By the way a couple years back the week I was there I noticed a significant increase in Snowboarders that year than any other year at JH.   It was my personal observation that the increased snowboarders that year seem to trash the mountain snow a lot more than skiers.    More scrapped off snow between moguls for example.   That yea, r the JH moguls reminded more of the moguls I ski on the east coast.   Granted it was not a scientific study.  Just my single person observation. It was obviously very different than other years at JH. 

post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post

Did highspeed quads ruin Grand Targhee?

Fast chairs haven't ever improved the skiing at any mountain.

Ever.

What they satisfy is a Type A skier's need to move faster in the non-skiing aspects of what they probably call the skiing experience (read: everything aside from the actual skiing), and the techno-lover's need to have The Most Modern.

I'm sure it helps real estate prices bump upward though. Type A's like to compete for houses. Outbidding another Type A by being able to "afford" a higher price is a big win for a Type A. And Type A's like to assume that all non-Type A people do not matter, and that their views are negligible.
post #13 of 24

"Fast chairs haven't ever improved the skiing at any mountain." Wow, that's a wild comment. I heartily disagree.

 

Untracked powder is fun for me and on a quiet day I can run off a few more laps on a high speed chair before the sun ruins the powder.  So even powder can benefit from faster chairlift service.
 

On a busy day, obviously the powder will get cut up a lot quicker. At Squaw, it is normally done by 10:30am (9:00 opening). But by noon the busy hills will end up with the sweet soft bumps Squaw is famous for. Maybe you don't like moguls but a nice line of soft moguls is as fun as anything for me. People make moguls. Add more people and you get better moguls.

 

Groomer days do not tire me out unless I'm spinning lots of laps. The time skiing down is usually faster than the time on the chair - even on a high speed chair. The more time swooping down, the better. Get a workout, go home and get some work done sounds better than crawling along on some rickety chair after freezing in a cutthroat line.

 

California's mountains are steep and snowy. They are also close to huge population centers. On a good day, hordes of people will attack the mountain. Without excellent lift capacity, all we will do is stand in line. I go to the mountain to ski, not to wait in lift lines or poke up the mountain. Once on top, I can decide what will be the most fun way down and enjoy that.

 

Still, my favorite chair of all is funky old two person Olympic Lady. Because I can get more laps of quality vertical faster there than anywhere else.

 

Eric

post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post


Fast chairs haven't ever improved the skiing at any mountain.
Ever.
What they satisfy is a Type A skier's need to move faster in the non-skiing aspects of what they probably call the skiing experience (read: everything aside from the actual skiing), and the techno-lover's need to have The Most Modern.
I'm sure it helps real estate prices bump upward though. Type A's like to compete for houses. Outbidding another Type A by being able to "afford" a higher price is a big win for a Type A. And Type A's like to assume that all non-Type A people do not matter, and that their views are negligible.


Sorry but I disagree.  Fast chairs make for shorter lift lines.  Nothing I hate more than long lift lines.  

 

post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by chraya View Post


Sorry but I disagree.  Fast chairs make for shorter lift lines.  Nothing I hate more than long lift lines.  

 



Fast chairs=more people on the mountain=mountain tracked out faster

slow chairs=less people on the mountain=mountain less tracked out

 

 

Give me a slow double that accesses good snow while every else is skiing a high speed quad.

post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by chraya View Post


Sorry but I disagree.  Fast chairs make for shorter lift lines.  Nothing I hate more than long lift lines.  

 


Actually, fast chairs (detachable) make for LONGER lift lines than fixed grip chairs.  They are only faster when the lines are short or non-existent.  Other than that they take the same amount of time to get you from the end of the line to the top, but you stand in line longer.  This has been discussed to death in other threads.

 

post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post


Fast chairs haven't ever improved the skiing at any mountain.
Ever.
What they satisfy is a Type A skier's need to move faster in the non-skiing aspects of what they probably call the skiing experience (read: everything aside from the actual skiing), and the techno-lover's need to have The Most Modern.
I'm sure it helps real estate prices bump upward though. Type A's like to compete for houses. Outbidding another Type A by being able to "afford" a higher price is a big win for a Type A. And Type A's like to assume that all non-Type A people do not matter, and that their views are negligible.


Allow me to disagree...

 

When you say "the skiing", are you talking about YOUR skiing or MY skiing?  If I'm someone who gets to that lift first thing on a powder morning (like today) and burns 8 runs on Casper in the hour it takes for the rest of the crowd to show up, I'll get 8,000 vertical feet of untracked skiing versus the - maybe - 4,000 I would get now.

 

For me, that equates to improved skiing and I'll happily ride the new chair and enjoy the IMPROVED skiing.

 

How in the world you equate a new chairlift to replace one that is THIRTY-FIVE years old to a bump in real estate prices in Jackson Hole is a pretty tenuous jump.  Almost everything the JHMR marketing organization has done in the 46 years this place has been in existence has been an effort to get intermediate skiers to come here.  This new Casper chair is partly an extension of that.  The effort has really never worked in the past and isn't particularly likely to work now.

 

On MOST days, the Casper chair is pretty empty most of the time.  On powder days, it's full - just like every other lift here.  The new chair isn't going to change any of that dynamic.

 

It's just a new chair, not a conspiracy.  th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #18 of 24

It's just a new chair, not a conspiracy

 

You sure?  I would have sworn i saw Jerry Blann, Foster Friess, and Rick Santorum

at a corner table at Nora's...

post #19 of 24

I'm all for it.  I visit JH every year at least once.  As I get a bit older, I find the every run does not have to be the Tram, Thunder or Sublette.  A bit of variety just expands the whole trip experience, even if it means some ego blue runs on Apres Vous.  Now we can add a few on Casper to the list.  Other than being a bit short, there is NOTHING wrong with the terrain served by Casper!

post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post


Fast chairs haven't ever improved the skiing at any mountain.
Ever.
What they satisfy is a Type A skier's need to move faster in the non-skiing aspects of what they probably call the skiing experience (read: everything aside from the actual skiing), and the techno-lover's need to have The Most Modern.
I'm sure it helps real estate prices bump upward though. Type A's like to compete for houses. Outbidding another Type A by being able to "afford" a higher price is a big win for a Type A. And Type A's like to assume that all non-Type A people do not matter, and that their views are negligible.


I don't know, when the wind is howling and it is freezing cold , I would sure rather be hustling up the hill on a fast lift than freezing my ass off on a slow one.

post #21 of 24

I have a picture to add to the thread.  I always thought this lift was very uncomfortable, narrow, and slow.  The groomers this lift accesses offer some of the best cruising in the country.

 

casper triple.jpg

post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

I have a picture to add to the thread.  I always thought this lift was very uncomfortable, narrow, and slow.  The groomers this lift accesses offer some of the best cruising in the country.

 

casper triple.jpg



+1

post #23 of 24

This is hilarious!   Anyone who thinks a slow lift is better has obviously never sat on one with my 11-year-old daughter.   My suggestion for those of you who can't handle fast lifts: don't ride them...

 

 

 

post #24 of 24

Good move.  That lift is awful.  That's a nice area of the mountain when you want to reduce the testosterone and very non-intimidating for intermediates.

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