Get Bent... or Obsethed

I didn't like my Hellbents and the version I had were narrower than the current model.  I thought it was fine for charging hard through deep snow in open terrain but seemed less maneuverable and skied horribly on the groomers going back back to the base or the condo.  I've never skied the Bent Chetlers but do sound like something I would try in place of my DPS.

How big a boy are ya?

I think the Obsethed will probably be as big as you need. Also, they have a lot less early taper in the tips and tails than the others, so they'll have more effective edge when you need it. You'd might even be quite happy with something smaller as well, like the Blog.

I'm 5'9" 170lbs and my old Line SFBs (182 cm and 115 under foot, pre-rocker model) handle the deepest conditions I ever find in the Alps, including the big dump in Austria last month. In fact, I rarely even bother to take those out because the Lizzies (172 cm and 110mm) handle most of the stuff I get them into.

Bentchetlers  would be the most prized ski of that group among strong skiers at Squaw.

Out of the group you've got there, I would also lean toward the Bents. A little fatter than the Seths, so not as much overlap with you other skis, and they will still carve fairly well on groomers. My brother has JJs, which are sort of the same shape as the Bents, and I think they're an awsome design. Go for the Bents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prickly 

I'm about 175 cm and 78 kg. I probably want a ski that I can still use a bit in the afternoon after the powder's gone. I've already got a 105 in my quiver, so not sure the Blog is for me (it's a 110 I think?), though that's another ski I can buy around here. Might be able to get anything 2013 from Blizzard/Nordica too, though would have to wait for the start of next season for them to arrive (the way my hill's skiing right now, don't think that'll be an issue). 

Ok, so we're pretty much the same size, within 1 cm and 1 kg.

I think the Obsethed (or something similar) would be the most versatile. I doubt you'll get much more out of a wider ski or one with more rocker and early taper guessing by my experience with my SFBs.

Last month, a couple of guys in my off-piste group were on JJ's and Bent Chetlers, and the small effective edge (due to the huge amounts of early taper in the tips and tails) really caused them problems on piste, in the bumps, and sometimes even on the traverses. The tips were useless when it came to making a turn on anything hard(ish).

A softer alternative to the Obsethed would be something like the Line Opus. But you'd probably have to order that from one of the UK shops; very few places in the Alps seem to like Line.

Well, a lot depends on specifics of intended use and your preferences. However, in general:

For my .02... Bent Chetler.

I have only demo'd it for half a day. Likewise the Blog. However, two family members have used the Bent Chetler as a daily driver. As a whole, the family has hundreds of days on Hell Bents (both designs). I've used the current Obsethed design a dozen days or so.

For my .02, the Blog is inferior to the Bent Chetler. It is a good enough ski, but IMO the lack of tail rocker is a huge mistake in that design zone & very much limits its perfornance. Hell Bent is just a bit behind the curve & less versatile - but is still more capable than many give it credit for. Obsethed is a fine ski, but again, makes some trade offs I would not (I am not a huge fan of the "virtual" early taper approach taken with the steep tip kick). Although I could happily spend time on them.

As for the comments about effective edge - there may be a learning curve, but I know a number of people who can totally rail Bent Chetlers on firm snow - to the point of tracking free-skiing racers turn for turn. In one or two cases, switch. This is one where the issue is not whether or not the ski can do it well, but do you listen to it. The Obsethed may not have obvious early taper, but the steep kick means much of the tip and tail will never ever engage in former snow.

BTW - just to open it up more, K2 has some other interesting things - including today's Pon2oon which handles chop better than you'd think (but has that tip kick thing I'm not so fond of)  - and may be more of what you want than the Hell Bent. Next year's Petitor and SideSeth are interesting. In terms of the brands you mentioned, there is much excitement about the Atomic Automatic and the Rossi Soul/Squad 7. If you are buying right now & can look afield, pricing on Praxis is crazy good (esp with coupon). Not sure where ON3P pricing is at the moment, but much to love there too... etc... 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindrift 

Well, a lot depends on specifics of intended use and your preferences. However, in general:

 

For my .02... Bent Chetler.

 

I have only demo'd it for half a day. Likewise the Blog. However, two family members have used the Bent Chetler as a daily driver. As a whole, the family has hundreds of days on Hell Bents (both designs). I've used the current Obsethed design a dozen days or so.

 

For my .02, the Blog is inferior to the Bent Chetler. It is a good enough ski, but IMO the lack of tail rocker is a huge mistake in that design zone & very much limits its perfornance. Hell Bent is just a bit behind the curve & less versatile - but is still more capable than many give it credit for. Obsethed is a fine ski, but again, makes some trade offs I would not (I am not a huge fan of the "virtual" early taper approach taken with the steep tip kick). Although I could happily spend time on them.

 

As for the comments about effective edge - there may be a learning curve, but I know a number of people who can totally rail Bent Chetlers on firm snow - to the point of tracking free-skiing racers turn for turn. In one or two cases, switch. This is one where the issue is not whether or not the ski can do it well, but do you listen to it. The Obsethed may not have obvious early taper, but the steep kick means much of the tip and tail will never ever engage in former snow.

 

BTW - just to open it up more, K2 has some other interesting things - including today's Pon2oon which handles chop better than you'd think (but has that tip kick thing I'm not so fond of)  - and may be more of what you want than the Hell Bent. Next year's Petitor and SideSeth are interesting. In terms of the brands you mentioned, there is much excitement about the Atomic Automatic and the Rossi Soul/Squad 7. If you are buying right now & can look afield, pricing on Praxis is crazy good (esp with coupon). Not sure where ON3P pricing is at the moment, but much to love there too... etc... 

There is no way a competent racer on race skis on hard snow could be tracked turn for turn on bent or any ski mentioned.  Just run a race course and have compentent racer run the same course. Let me know who wins...... stuff like this does kill the credibility in my book of your post.  

With that said the bentchentler does engage the whole edge, as does the Sickle and does pretyt wlel like your saying, but turn turn for racer. That racer sucks or something is really off. 

Depends how you define "competent racer". The racer(s) in question were OK level local race program folks - and as noted, not on a race course. The folks on Hell Bents, Bent Chetlers, etc are, let's say "atypically good" and leave it at that. I did not say I was being entirely fair.  Just making a point about assumptions regarding certain skis. That point was that folks who make claims about skis like Bent Chetlers (or even Hell Bents for that matter)  being unable to hold on firm snow are generally not aware of just how well those skis can do when on the right feet (not mine...). And when they look at different flavors of rockered skis, may not always be aware of some of the design subtleties coming into play these days (eg, the previously mentioned relationship between rate of rise vs rate of fattening or thinning) Not that I'd pitch Bent Chetlers as an ice ski, but even on fairly firm snow, plenty of people can leave perfect trenches with them. And I recently watched some guides handle some seriously heinous breakable crust and runneled ice quite well on JJs.

Oh, and thinking about this reminded me that mount point matters. For any one of those skis, it is worth knowing the full story before drilling.

edit: damn that screen name change is weird....

I have Bentchetlers, I second the comment that a good skier can rail them on groomers. To be honest, I feel that they carve BETTER than my park skis. I weigh more than you and I ski the 192. I love them. You probably will too, tons of pop, effortless in pow. The only thing that isn't fun is tight bumps.

What I'm trying to say about JJ's, Bent Chetlers, and other such skis is that the amount of early taper in the tips is far more than you need for a fun powder ski. The effect is that you get a long section of the ski that isn't really doing anything: you can't use it to initiate turns, and it's not really adding anything in powder that you can't get from a much smaller amount of taper.

I'm sure people can rail some nice turns on those skis on the groomers, but I'm also sure they'd handle trickier conditions even better on a ski with less taper without a significant difference in the powder. I'm not saying early taper is bad (I definitely feel the benefit), but you don't need 1/3 of the entire ski to be tapered to make a fun powder ski.

This is based on my experience the last couple of seasons skiing off piste in the Alps with a few groups. (Apparently, the guys at Line agree, because they actually decreased the amount of taper on the SFB and Opus, even though they alread had far less than other brands already.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by prickly 

Interesting, CV. You know the Obsethed at all?

Unfortunately, no. The specs make it look worth a demo, because it's similar to what has worked for me, but it's possible you might find something funky about it that you don't like.

Generally though I think that, for our height and weight, something around 115 wide with a moderate amount of early taper works really well as a fun powder ski without causing problems in tricky spots (imagine a packed traverse that takes a hard dip and sharp turn under and around a rock face). The amount of rocker depends entirely on your preference. I think the only reason you might want something over 120 would be if you just can't find something smaller that has the shape, flex, etc., that you like.

Definitely the Liberty Mutant in that case.

http://www.backcountry.com/liberty-mutant-ski

Quote:

Originally Posted by prickly 

I'm about 175 cm and 78 kg. I probably want a ski that I can still use a bit in the afternoon after the powder's gone. I've already got a 105 in my quiver, so not sure the Blog is for me (it's a 110 I think?), though that's another ski I can buy around here. Might be able to get anything 2013 from Blizzard/Nordica too, though would have to wait for the start of next season for them to arrive (the way my hill's skiing right now, don't think that'll be an issue). 

The Bents would certainly do that trick but from what you describe a ski like the new upcoming Atomic Automatic may be the better match for you. Slightly narrower in the waist (118 afaIr with a bit less tip rocker and just a kicked up tail is what will make it a versatile ski.

I just skied my Bents for 4 days straight at Kicking Horse. At no time did I find myself wishing that I had bought narrower skis. It was worth far more to me to have a big, fat floaty ski in the morning than a narrower one in the afternoon. Yeah, you might have to suffer a little bit in some bumps, and I did for one day. The next day, we had a foot and a half of fresh, and I got second gondola. Hucked off of a windlip into Bowl Over under the trees, made two turns at full mach, then dropped onto Show Off, which had been freshly groomed the night before, then had ~6-12 cm of fresh on top. If I had broken my skis after that run, I still think that I would have gotten my moneys worth. Go big, especially because you already have a 105. You won't regret it.

I skied most of the skis listed above last year and I loved the BCs. I am buying new fat skis this year and the BC was my ski of choice until I heard all the positive stuff about the Automatic. I'm 215 lbs 5'11" and don't ski a lot of switch so the slightly stiffer, more directional Auto might be better. Just my two cents, good luck.