The Great Powder Mystery

Well, first, it sounds like you were not skiing powder but instead were in heavy crud.  I'm a little puzzled that you took your skis off and walked down through 30" of fresh snow.  That's close to an impossibility.  You would be trying to plow through snow up to your waist.

But, to answer your question, first there is the fact that if you practice skiing fresh snow you get better at it and then start to like it.  When you begin, it's a PITA, but with consistent work you can become the master.  

Second, as to why ski snow that is lumpy, inconsistent, and heavy rather than smooth and consistent, I would like you to think of mountain vs. road biking.  When you road bike you go a long way at speed.  It's a smooth, consistent ride.  When you mountain bike on trails you have to constantly adjust, be aware and on top of things.  If you screw up, you crash.  It's lumpy, bumpy, and inconsistent.  However, it is a big challenge that many people really go for.

I'm a fresh snow lover.  It's 3D skiing and much like mountain biking.  You need to be on top of your game to stay upright and even more so to ski it with mastery.  It's a big challenge every time you ski.  On groomed snow it's like a ski rink.  The snow is consistent, two dimensional, and you can go fast, but that's it.  Speed becomes boring because it's always the same.  I like skiing groomed snow for a few runs, but it soon becomes a yawner and I'm ready to either ski the off piste or go home.

So the reason that people like driving over potholes instead of at a race track is that the potholes are more varied and interesting.

If you like groomed snow and don't like crud, then ski the groomed.  You'll miss out on a lot of the best in skiing, however.

Cut up snow on the afternoon of a powder day is not powder but if it is light enough it can still be fun. Snow that you can make into snow balls is not powder, but the ski resorts, especially ones on the coast, still call it powder.

30"+ when tilted on a steep slope can become "bottomless" and you can sink in deeper than the 30"+ that fell from the sky, so taking your skis off in those conditions is unwise.

Real powder if deep and light enough will fly off the tips of yours skis as you turn and will hit you in the chest or face (keep your mouth closed or you may have trouble breathing) or the snow will fly over your head. When the snow is engulfing you and shooting over your head, you need an up motion at the end of your turn so you can get enough above the snow just to see where you are going.

IMO the OP wasn't skiing real powder.

You weren't skiing powder, you were struggling through crud.  

Twenty seconds of 3-dimensional flotation in the real thing will explain more than a thousand words ever could.

The above replies are all 100% correct and I will add, if you are not a really good powder skier, trying 30 inches of heavy snow in the steeps is not a great place to learn.  Rather, I would start at a much lower angle spot where your just pretty much going just straight with a few little turns thrown in so you can get use to the feel and then gradually increase the angle.  You didn't start skiing groomed black runs overnight and you won't start on steep powder runs either.  It takes practice, but is a lot of fun once you get the hang of it.

As has been already stated, there is a world of difference between skiing untracked powder and skiing heavy cut-up crud.  To the OP's question, there is nothing quite like skiing untracked powder especially when it's the light, fluffy stuff that resorts like Alta, Jackson Hole, & Steamboat (to name a few) are known for.  It is nothing like skiing heavy, wet snow that has been chopped and cut-up.  Same thing can be said about skiing the hard pack.  There's a world of difference between getting the first run down a freshly groomed trail and the same trail if left untouched by the snowcats for four or five days or even to the next extreme, dropping into the gates and skiing a race course.  All variatiions of skiing the hard pack.

I'm not sure I would agree totally with the pothole analogy, but yes, there certainly is a 3D aspect to powder skiing that you don't get to the same degree sticking to the groomers.  However, even skiing a groomed run after a good snowfall requires handling some varied conditions.  Haven't you ever hit an icy patch underneath what appeared to be soft snow?  If you have the skills to quickly and effectively adjust and compensate for the subtle changes underfoot as you speed down the hardpack, then you have the skills needed to ski the pow too.

To flip the question around, why would you want to spend your day on ski-chattering, bone-jarring hard pack when you could spend your day on the closest thing to flying without wings?  It's all a matter of taste and what turns you on.  It can all be good skiing.

Maybe it is just the mental association with real powder skiing, but I just love the feel of powder.

There have been a few times when the only untracked left was on very low angle stuff, and I will even ski that for the feel.

I'm talking un-steep enough that I'm afraid to turn, because I can't afford to lose the momentum.

As the previous posters put it, you have to get good at it before you can love it.  And eventually your threshold of enjoyment moves out along the untracked-to-crud spectrum.

Heavy,wet,deep,cut up snow is typical for the PNW. That's why they made fat skis.Use the old tracks for acceleration and the deeper uncut to slow in. Just like a bump field pick your line. Skiing low angles and getting sucked into a line that ends up in the flats is a sure way to learn another ski technique. SLOGGING!

I can appreciate the OP's frustration, because (at least where I've been lately) this advice can be hard to follow. As example, Crystal Mountain grooms everything green and blue. Other than the little fringe on the sides of the runs, the only uncut is up where it's steep. And it get's really ugly when the heavy PNW fresh turns into heavy crud. There's no place to practice on moderately angled terrain, no transition area. So you get really easy or really hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmaie 

I can appreciate the OP's frustration, because (at least where I've been lately) this advice can be hard to follow. As example, Crystal Mountain grooms everything green and blue. Other than the little fringe on the sides of the runs, the only uncut is up where it's steep. And it get's really ugly when the heavy PNW fresh turns into heavy crud. There's no place to practice on moderately angled terrain, no transition area. So you get really easy or really hard.

This is true.  However, if you're at a certain level of skiing where you're ready for the challenge of learning to navigate "powder" and crud then you usually are proficient enough that you don't need greens or blues so much.  It's more important to not try to learn in 30" of heavy stuff.  Start with 4" or 6" and work on that first.  Later you can tackle the epic dumps.

One thing you need to learn is that, in new snow, speed is your friend.  If you don't have enough speed you can't turn easily.  Therefore, steeper slopes (not very steep, just steep) help keep the speed up when you're learning.  I'll bet there are plenty of these types of ungroomed slopes at Crystal, though I haven't skied there in many years, so my memory is a bit foggy.
 

I figured this out after living my first year in the Tahoe area.  Although there were many days last year with fluffy powder days, but we had our share of "sierra powder"

That is when I fell in love with my DPS Yvettes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider 

Heavy,wet,deep,cut up snow is typical for the PNW. That's why they made fat skis.Use the old tracks for acceleration and the deeper uncut to slow in. Just like a bump field pick your line. Skiing low angles and getting sucked into a line that ends up in the flats is a sure way to learn another ski technique. SLOGGING!

Man, powder? You should be lucky you even got snow!

On a more serious note, it's the feeling of floating which is awesome. It's pretty unbelievable if you hit it right. 

I am no expert so use salt:

  I couldn't ski anything but groom for years. After ESA I began to work the edges of ungroomed and found that I wasn't centered nor was I consistently using both feet together which caused one of my skis to dive or grab while the other ski shot off in another direction. Not good for staying up with the flat side down.

so my two cents is work an easy groomer to develop centering skills, turn initiation with both feet at the same time and equal pressure, then take those skills to the edge of the trails and work them off and on the groom gathering confidence in your ability to ride the crud. Also remember that you cannot turn fast in crud, got to take it easy and ride in the center.

be sure to check out Bob Barnes video on crudology...great stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexzn 

 I have seen too many people bombing the groomers in backseat and feeling like a million bucks. 

And most of the ones I see doing that can't actually turn very well, they just want to act like they're a racer, like the ones I see in their Carhartts bent over at the waist with their poles under their arms sticking nearly straight up in the air.  

And powder is where it's at.  We had a fresh 8" yesterday and it was great, especially in the trees.

As a racer from the east, I understand your frustration and see many other people like you.

 "Six inches or fresh snow today, the course is going to suck Ill have to stay in."

Thats common and I dont get it.  Ill be off skiing in the woods having fun, slashing any piece of fresh snow I can find.  If you want more scientific answer read this

http://www.mountaingazette.com/mountain-notebook/the-joy-of-sliding-why-our-feet-make-skiing-feel-so-sexy/

One barrier to pleasure in the deep is wax.

More than once, grabby piles of snow that I'd avoid like the plague would instantly become soft pillows that collapsed in perfect harmony with my turns AFTER I got the right wax on the base.

Just saying....

Wayne Sheldrake is one of my (ski writer) heroes.

 I see skiers that look like there a good till you get in behind them and only the back half of their skies are in the snow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slider 

 I see skiers that look like there a good till you get in behind them and only the back half of their skies are in the snow.

I've seen skiers look pretty good 'till you turn on the lights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

I've seen skiers look pretty good 'till you turn on the lights.

 

david I never knew.............

Flyboy22 >>>"Why do people (and from the sound of it, a LOT of people) like skiing soft snow so much?...Realize I have grown up skiing groomers and love the adrenaline of going fast.  I ski fast and aggressively on hard snow and feel in complete control at all but the fastest of speeds. "

Hmmm?  You sound like a person  possibly from the East that though you've occasionally skied over your years have maybe never skied much in any given season?  Else you would have met other good skiers on inevitable fresh days where you've skied that would have answered your question easily or seen others skiing powder that you would have grasped their joy simply by watching.   Even low elevation areas of the East occasionally have excellent powder as its all a matter of storm temperatures and conditions.   There are many novices everywhere that ski groomers fast without hitting other skiers or objects though their technique is instantly recognizable to advanced skiers as novice.    So that doesn't necessarily cause an advanced skier to expect they have broad experience.  Additionally most skiers eventually see powder skiing in movies as with the annual Warren Miller films or even on TV.  So would be difficult for someone who was a well experienced skier to offer such a question.

Instead of explaining why with words, these two videos, a couple of many on Youtube, show what it is beyond the need for words.   The first is outrageous deep powder skiing in Alta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nns4GbZtOZE

And the second is more common shallower powder skiing in cold dry fluff at Crystal Mountain.  They are participating in a Powder 8 powder skiing contest.  Note how relaxed they descend at an easy speed.  That is how this person skis fresh dry snow even on midfats and does so for long distances without excessive effort.  It is an extremely enjoyable soft sensual pleasure beyond words.  And note the more water content in snow the more effort involved which may have been more common in your limited experiences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS-yUyQedPc

David

God that powder 8 thing made me want to gag. What a waste of good snow! And all that bouncy-bounce stuff... yikes!

As to the main theme of the thread - I'd pay attention to Posaune's comments.

In addition, it is worth noting a few things:

- Most people's first experiences in powder and/or deep soft snow are not really all that wonderful. Many seasoned skiers seem to have forgotten their own learning curves. I learned as an adult, so memories of the challenge and the humiliation remain fresh  And I still feel lots of empathy when I watch grown men and women in tears, or close to,  the first times they tackle a longer deep snow pitch -- especially if the snow is heavy or is in any way "upside down" or chopped up (or a combo of the preceding). This is all compounded by the fact that shallow slopes can be terribly hard to ski under those conditions since that is where tip dives tend to happen. But is hard to put a newb out on steeper slopes under those same conditions. Sort of a catch 22 solved only by patience.

- While many do, not everyone will end up loving powder. Different strokes for different folks. Ski what *you* like. That said, as others have noted above, most people who put any time into experiencing powder grow to love it.

- Equipment matters. Powder skiing is a whole lot easier with equipment designed for that element. Doubly so in heavy or layered snow. My absolute favorite snow is sort of medium water content maritime snow. The kind the PNW and AK tend to deliver lots of. Soft enough to be easy but supportive enough to play with. If I skied it with skis smaller than what I tend to use, I'd very much feel otherwise. Do not be sucked into the "learn on carvers" nonsense. If you are going to take more runs at this kind of snow, get your hands on some fat fully rockered skis. Or rent them when appropriate. There are many good options today. What were the people with smiles on their faces using?

Seriously?

This thread is absurd.

30 inches of cement snow should be fun, at least in places where it isn't badly tracked.

Getting stuck in snow means it isn't steep enough. The deeper the snow, the steeper it helps it to be. A st

I see most powder skiing beginners with almost always the same problems:

1. They try to ankle-pivot turns. The rest of the ski needs to follow the tip, or the snow will grab the ski. Skid turns do not work.

2. Skiing ankles together looks great in those 1970 ski movies!  18" or so between the skis is a better bet for balance.

3. More even weighting.

4. It seems a lot of people are WAY too far backseat when they ski deep snow, which causes them to go right off the back of the skis in a turn. Even moderately fat skis will not tip dive unless they are really punched into the snow.

It seems that the message got across.  The bottom line is you have to possess the skill and tool to have fun.  A different analogy I can offer is taking a road bike and go off road in Moab.

Frankly, I think the OP has a valid point.  Powder=overrated.  And it's dangerous too.  People would do well to avoid it.  As it was so eloquently put, why drive a bus over potholes when you could be driving a race car around a track at mach loony? 

Seriously people, just forget about powder.  It'll make for a better world...for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anachronism 

Seriously?

 

This thread is absurd.

 

30 inches of cement snow should be fun, at least in places where it isn't badly tracked.

 

Getting stuck in snow means it isn't steep enough. The deeper the snow, the steeper it helps it to be. A st

 

I see most powder skiing beginners with almost always the same problems:

 

1. They try to ankle-pivot turns. The rest of the ski needs to follow the tip, or the snow will grab the ski. Skid turns do not work.

 

2. Skiing ankles together looks great in those 1970 ski movies!  18" or so between the skis is a better bet for balance.

 

3. More even weighting.

 

4. It seems a lot of people are WAY too far backseat when they ski deep snow, which causes them to go right off the back of the skis in a turn. Even moderately fat skis will not tip dive unless they are really punched into the snow.

You can ski powder with the same technique you use on the groomers IF your technique on the groomers is solid.

Last month, I was doing an off-piste course in Austria, and my instructor was one of the British youth ski coaches. He skied every bit of terrain like it was a GS course, doing smooth turns with his feet apart.

Personally, I prefer to ski with my feet closer together like the guide we had, but I have seen a racing technique used successfully in everything from wind-buff to waist-deep powder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anachronism 

Seriously?

 

This thread is absurd.

 

30 inches of cement snow should be fun, at least in places where it isn't badly tracked.

Given the OP, I find the above rather absurd.  The guy was a virgin and he was trying to ski 30" deep crud.  How did you do the first time you tried to ski that kind of snow?

Read.  Think.

for sure; I'd take it a step further. this snow is not skiable for a novice powder skier. a novice should start with half a foot of nice powder and work up to deep crud.....in a few years. otherwise, you will hurt yourself, no doubt.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Posaune 

Given the OP, I find the above rather absurd.  The guy was a virgin and he was trying to ski 30" deep crud.  How did you do the first time you tried to ski that kind of snow?

 

Read.  Think.