What's become of the all mountan ski? - Page 8

^^^^ Interesting. What interests me lately is how much snow quality and conditions will help or hinder particular designs of skis. Seems like when I'm in the northern rockies, or Utah, I see a lot of softer powder skis. When I'm in the far west, or down in the central or south rockies, the snow's denser and the powder skis are on average beefier. In the east, you want some spring and quickness because things can be so tight. In the NW, you want some stability and dampness to blast down the big bowls. Seems like we often talk about skis as if they'll be equally effective everywhere when what we mean is that they're effective where we ski...

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyond 

^^^^Seems like we often talk about skis as if they'll be equally effective everywhere when what we mean is that they're effective where we ski...

and how we ski.  Some skis are great at aggressive skiing between 30 and 55 mph, but an encumbrance making tight turns (that you couldn't make at 30 mph) or at slow speeds and a liability at higher speeds.  That's why the quiver exists, to match, not only conditions, but type of skiing (charging those conditions versus taking it easy or even being very careful).  Where "your" all-mountain ski fits on the scale depends on where and how you ski and what you enjoy most about it.

Jim - looks like it's time for a "What's Become of the Powder Ski?" thread. We don't seem to be talking about all-mointain skis anymore, so I'll hold my observations to myself. I'll tell you what has become of my powder skis though, they've become covered with spiderwebs and dust bunnies.

What has happened to the "All Mountain Ski"...nothing, the all mountain ski is simply... EVERYWHERE.  I think the term is actually really convenient for ski companies and retailers.  Depending on the skier type, skier terrain preference, the mountain, the conditions that day, etc., etc., what ski is right/wrong??? who is to say??  It's all different.  The rider ultimately, and it's no surprise that there so many variations in skis because the rider has spoken and their needs are being answered by what we see on the shelves.  The point could be argued endlessly with no right answer.  I totally understand that ski companies don't want to scare anyone away from a any ski by saying it's not "all mountain".  I think the genius is in the quiver, that is the breakthrough that ski compnanies have made and I think it's cool, who doesn't love gear.  At one point I was in love with my Volkl 6 Stars (still have them, still like 'em) super fast, carvy, fun and I could ski them everywhere, never really thought a wider ski would be necessary.  Then I rode Mantras when they were the rage in 2007 and bought the 08s, again fun, different, better in some ways on some days...tradeoffs.  See, I'm drinking the quiver Koolaid and likin' it.  Over the last 2 years I've tried wider and wider skis and again fun, different, better in some ways on some days...tradeoffs.  Most recently, Liberty Variant for 2013 (112w), Liberty Double Helix 2013 (121w) DPS Wailer 105, and Moment Biiby Pro (116w).  I liked them all, they were all fun, all had strengths/weaknesses, some more me than others but I kept my eyes open.  Will I buy a pair...yes, and it will have camber underfoot.  Which, not sure, still more to try but I'm getting anxious.   I'm more and more impressed with wider skis, these skis are getting awesome and on powder days when the mountain changes rapidly as the day goes on and into the next day... days, they are versatile and fun, no doubt.  So what I want on a powder day is a ski that will be fun in pow in the am, handle the crud and the re-exposed bumps later, snake a few trees as I follow the kids and rail hardpack back to the lift, big requirements yes, realistically this is what happens, untracked lines in bounds won"t last long.  Any of my skis will get me through the day, some better on some days.  The advent of the quiver is the game changer.  Skis may be kind of like outwear, mountain conditions vary like/with weather.  How many jackets do you own?  How many for function?  How many for fashion?  Both?  I have 4 that I own for function and fashion.  Would one get you through most days, probably.  Anyway, the all-mountain ski is everywhere, it just depend on who you are, where you ski and what you like to ski.  I think if we are honest with ourselves about this and if retailers focus on finding this our all mountain ski be found and varied.  For me, I just love to ski.  But I would admit, I hope it's a powder day, if not, I'm going to look for some, in the trees, on some "hike to terrain" and If I fail to find it I hope to survive the moguls back to a groomer to carve it up a bit back to the lift.  I always bring a smile to the hill and hopefully a fit body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWA113 

What has happened to the "All Mountain Ski"...nothing, the all mountain ski is simply... EVERYWHERE.  I think the term is actually really convenient for ski companies and retailers.  Depending on the skier type, skier terrain preference, the mountain, the conditions that day, etc., etc., what ski is right/wrong??? who is to say??  It's all different.  The rider ultimately, and it's no surprise that there so many variations in skis because the rider has spoken and their needs are being answered by what we see on the shelves.  The point could be argued endlessly with no right answer.  I totally understand that ski companies don't want to scare anyone away from a any ski by saying it's not "all mountain".  I think the genius is in the quiver, that is the breakthrough that ski compnanies have made and I think it's cool, who doesn't love gear.  At one point I was in love with my Volkl 6 Stars (still have them, still like 'em) super fast, carvy, fun and I could ski them everywhere, never really thought a wider ski would be necessary.  Then I rode Mantras when they were the rage in 2007 and bought the 08s, again fun, different, better in some ways on some days...tradeoffs.  See, I'm drinking the quiver Koolaid and likin' it.  Over the last 2 years I've tried wider and wider skis and again fun, different, better in some ways on some days...tradeoffs.  Most recently, Liberty Variant for 2013 (112w), Liberty Double Helix 2013 (121w) DPS Wailer 105, and Moment Biiby Pro (116w).  I liked them all, they were all fun, all had strengths/weaknesses, some more me than others but I kept my eyes open.  Will I buy a pair...yes, and it will have camber underfoot.  Which, not sure, still more to try but I'm getting anxious.   I'm more and more impressed with wider skis, these skis are getting awesome and on powder days when the mountain changes rapidly as the day goes on and into the next day... days, they are versatile and fun, no doubt.  So what I want on a powder day is a ski that will be fun in pow in the am, handle the crud and the re-exposed bumps later, snake a few trees as I follow the kids and rail hardpack back to the lift, big requirements yes, realistically this is what happens, untracked lines in bounds won"t last long.  Any of my skis will get me through the day, some better on some days.  The advent of the quiver is the game changer.  Skis may be kind of like outwear, mountain conditions vary like/with weather.  How many jackets do you own?  How many for function?  How many for fashion?  Both?  I have 4 that I own for function and fashion.  Would one get you through most days, probably.  Anyway, the all-mountain ski is everywhere, it just depend on who you are, where you ski and what you like to ski.  I think if we are honest with ourselves about this and if retailers focus on finding this our all mountain ski be found and varied.  For me, I just love to ski.  But I would admit, I hope it's a powder day, if not, I'm going to look for some, in the trees, on some "hike to terrain" and If I fail to find it I hope to survive the moguls back to a groomer to carve it up a bit back to the lift.  I always bring a smile to the hill and hopefully a fit body.

Well?   How did you like them? ski review! :) 
 

Over here 'all mountain' really refers to the mountains rather than the skis We get to ski the same snow type 90% of the time on 90% of the mountains so being honest we can pretty much get away with using just one ski everywhere. In my case it's <80mm carver.

As much as I'd love to be a gear whore and quiver up for multiple conditions the opportunity just isn't there frequently enough with what we get so can't justify it. But.... if gun to my head had to, it probably means buying at the other extremity to avoid crossover too so would just mean that ski might get very little use.

We ski North America each year though too and I agree with posts above in that you should ski what you like the best at the time otherwise why bother? On big snow days we hire something more appropriate but to be honest again usually after lunch I would rather be on my own skis after it gets skied out as the conditions usually have changed back to a less than 3D orientation unless you want to walk. The rest of the time we don't feel undergunned at all and pretty much ski all the mountain, avoiding bump runs unless by accident (being too honest now).

I would love to need to own a dedicated soft snow ski too but in 4 trips (60+ days) we have had really deep snow happen only about 20% of the time, the downside of choosing a location 6 months in advance is it's a lottery and this year there wasn't really any winners until recently really.

So the point I'm trying to make to answer the OP's question 'what's become of the all mountain ski'?, nothing, it's still on my feet, my all mountain is just different than yours so my skis need to/can be too. Your 98's are just as worthy all mountain as my 77's are because we all rule all the mountain in our own ways don't we? That's why skiing rocks my world and a pretty confident guess all yours out there too.

Well said EWA and snala!  I think that pretty much sums up the whole point of the all mountain concept!

You broke it down really well Jim.  Couldn't have said it better.  But I will say, people need to be honest about their skill level.  And be careful of sales people trying to upsell you.  Wider is better in some conditions, but not all.

Wait Pontiac said for years that wider is better! Look how well they are doing with it!  

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraJim 

Wait'll ya see the new Blizzard "Grand Prix" for '13-'14.

 

SJ
 

OK, I'll take a pair...  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

 

 

OK, I'll take a pair...  

I don't know man, I hear the price is about as high as it can be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumpfreaq 

I don't know man, I hear the price is about as high as it can be.

 then can I have your CC#?   

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraJim 

Wait'll ya see the new Blizzard "Grand Prix" for '13-'14.

 

SJ
 

The Super Grand Prix will make it obsolete the next year following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryZ 

The Super Grand Prix will make it obsolete the next year following.

I heard rumor of the Super Grand Prix PRO model on TGR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

 

 

I heard rumor of the Super Grand Prix PRO model on TGR

I hear it's 176mm underfoot.