2012 Blizzard Bonafide and Kastle BMX98 video reviews

Thanks Dawg!  Great to see how they handled there, visually speaking it made a difference.  I think for a guy my size (6'2", 200lbs) the Bonafide wouldn't push me around as much, and looks like they'd actually be very good with that stiffness.  Looks like the BMX98 would be too "bouncy" for my weight and preference.  

Very helpful.

Scott....I know you have spent time on the FX94. In those rougher snow conditions, especially with bumps covered by the same type of snow, which do you think you would prefer between the BMX98 and FX94?

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan o'neil 

Scott....I know you have spent time on the FX94. In those rougher snow conditions, especially with bumps covered by the same type of snow, which do you think you would prefer between the BMX98 and FX94?

I had just about the same question for the Inferno and the Olympus Mons in the tested conditions.

Great job kicking the EpicSki reviews up a notch with this video content, Scott.  

It's interesting you mention the stiffness of the Bonafide and your weight.  I'm 5'7" and a light (by man standards) 145lbs.  Level 7(high)/8(low) skier.  I purchased the 173 Bonafides, without demoing, this season.  I've got 8 days on them so far.  

I do really love the solid feel of them on groomers (flatter blues, and greens) and on icy conditions.  They rip.  They float well too for their width.  They bust crud well also. All traits a stiff ski will do.  

However, I'm starting to think they're not the ski for me.  I'm not a high speed groomer ripper/GS turner.  I like shorter, smaller turns, not really high speeds.  I love the trees and these things are a bear for me to manage in tight trees. Very heavy and stiff.  Compared to my 163cm Prophet 100's they feel like slow tanks that I have less control over.  Also, I was recently skiing some steep black choppy powder runs at Whistler and was trying to jump turn/lay down tight radius turns quickly and these skis just worked me over.  Very hard to manage and made me feel like I was not driving them.  I think they're just too stiff for me.  If I were an expert 8+/9 level skier at 145lbs I think they would be better... but I feel like they are currently inhibiting my progression as a skier.  While I love them out in the open and in the high speed, they're just so hard for me to manage in tight steep spots.  

I kind of wish I would have got the 2012 Prophet 98's.  Looks like they're my old Prophet 100's+rocker and sidewall (two things I want).  But without the Bonafide's stiffness.  Or maybe I should look into the 2012 women's model of the Bonafide with less metal?? 

Thoughts?

-Ben

Interesting.  I spoke with someone who said the Prophets weren't for me because of their lack of stiffness for my weight.  Considering I've got about 60 lbs on you, I'd say you're right on about your assessment. Too bad your Bonafides aren't a bit longer, I'd buy them from you if you wanted to sell.  I think 173 is too short for my size.

I bet Scott at Dawgcatching has a pair of 180 Bones he will sell you ... 

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan o'neil 

Scott....I know you have spent time on the FX94. In those rougher snow conditions, especially with bumps covered by the same type of snow, which do you think you would prefer between the BMX98 and FX94?

Just changed my name to Scott.  But since I own both and am also a lighter guy...

MX98, no contest. The FX has its own brand of magic, but rough crud over bumps ain't part of it IMO. 
 

Well thanks for the response! I already own the MX98, but it's hard not to second guess your decision. Plus that sort of rough crud over bumps (steeper I would say watching the video) is exactly what I skied this past weekend. I used my DPS 112's for a bit while it was 4 inches of fresh over a thin crust and I was amazed by how well they performed in those conditions. Once it was cut up the MX98's were great...but was still curious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyond 

Just changed my name to Scott.  But since I own both and am also a lighter guy...

 

MX98, no contest. The FX has its own brand of magic, but rough crud over bumps ain't part of it IMO. 
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benflow 

It's interesting you mention the stiffness of the Bonafide and your weight.  I'm 5'7" and a light (by man standards) 145lbs.  Level 7(high)/8(low) skier.  I purchased the 173 Bonafides, without demoing, this season.  I've got 8 days on them so far.  

 

I do really love the solid feel of them on groomers (flatter blues, and greens) and on icy conditions.  They rip.  They float well too for their width.  They bust crud well also. All traits a stiff ski will do.  

 

However, I'm starting to think they're not the ski for me.  I'm not a high speed groomer ripper/GS turner.  I like shorter, smaller turns, not really high speeds.  I love the trees and these things are a bear for me to manage in tight trees. Very heavy and stiff.  Compared to my 163cm Prophet 100's they feel like slow tanks that I have less control over.  Also, I was recently skiing some steep black choppy powder runs at Whistler and was trying to jump turn/lay down tight radius turns quickly and these skis just worked me over.  Very hard to manage and made me feel like I was not driving them.  I think they're just too stiff for me.  If I were an expert 8+/9 level skier at 145lbs I think they would be better... but I feel like they are currently inhibiting my progression as a skier.  While I love them out in the open and in the high speed, they're just so hard for me to manage in tight steep spots.  

 

I kind of wish I would have got the 2012 Prophet 98's.  Looks like they're my old Prophet 100's+rocker and sidewall (two things I want).  But without the Bonafide's stiffness.  Or maybe I should look into the 2012 women's model of the Bonafide with less metal?? 

 

Thoughts?

 

-Ben

 

 

As an add-on to this comment. I'm about 5' 10" and weighing in about 10 lbs lighter than normal these days, after a month off dealing with an injury, at ~ 135 lbs. 

I took my 180 bones out a few days ago on some open bowls, not very long lines, ranging from steep to moderate. There was about a foot of snow over a 5-ft solid base, and that top foot had been skied out and then hardened so that it was hard and cruddy, with  some deep troughs and tracks, though moderately penetrable. Not crust, but cold and dry and uniform throughout that top foot.

In any case, for the first few runs of the day I had a similar fighting feeling. Making shorter, more angulated turns, moving across the fall line more perpendicularly on the Bones in these conditions was work-- and not terribly "fun." The stiffness (and my light weight) bounced me a bit, and made me feel like I could get tossed laterally.

After I warmed up, though, I just bit the bullet, pointed the tips downhill, and made longer, shallower, higher speed, charging, railroad type turns... and it was as if a chorus of angels (OK, that might be the altitude on my head) started singing. Skiing like that, and the Bones were all fun and play. The crud just sort of evaporated, and the troughs felt moderated. I was making two to three times fewer turns per line. And doing it an equal amount faster-- hitting that terminal speed for the turn-type and steepness.

This was the second day having a similar feeling on these skis (we've had a LOT of snow in the Alps, but my last few times out I've missed the dumps so the old snow is skied out and re-frozen). On the soft, untouched blower, they'll do anything you want (same on steep groomed to first few inches of new over groomed). But on the nasty, deep-crud (not the stuff that's loose, but where its more consolidated, though not really crusty), with troughs, the Bones want to cross the fall line moving at speed and more close to downhill (tip to tail) than across hill. 

It's like there's an inflection point-- because the character changes. Taking it slow, turn by turn, in intermediate style on this kind of slope is fine, but taking that style and progressively skiing it more aggressively feels progressively more unstable and jerky. One has a thought in the back of the mind: "If I continue to let these open up, I'm going to kill myself." But if you just let them open up-- and I know this sounds stupid-- the whole thing mellows out (while going faster and digging deeper trenches) and becomes stable. The other funny thing was that once in this skiing regimen, it was much easier to safely shut these down and slarve off speed... as if it required moving faster to be able to shut them down faster and more safely. 

I guess the ultimate (obvious) point is this: They want to go over variable crud charging forward, not drifting sideways. In these conditions, for a light skier, the Bones are a best friend and forgiving to an expert and a bit evil towards an intermediate. 

Really sound like a great ski, but from what I've been reading around here, for a bigger guy the Bones are probably a bit less suitable.  I'm 200 lbs, hard charger........am looking at the Dynastar Legend 94 and Rossi Experience 98.  Bonafide was on my shortlist though, close but not quite there for my needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justruss 

It's like there's an inflection point-- because the character changes. Taking it slow, turn by turn, in intermediate style on this kind of slope is fine, but taking that style and progressively skiing it more aggressively feels progressively more unstable and jerky. One has a thought in the back of the mind: "If I continue to let these open up, I'm going to kill myself." But if you just let them open up-- and I know this sounds stupid-- the whole thing mellows out (while going faster and digging deeper trenches) and becomes stable. The other funny thing was that once in this skiing regimen, it was much easier to safely shut these down and slarve off speed... as if it required moving faster to be able to shut them down faster and more safely. 

 

I guess the ultimate (obvious) point is this: They want to go over variable crud charging forward, not drifting sideways. In these conditions, for a light skier, the Bones are a best friend and forgiving to an expert and a bit evil towards an intermediate. 

Justruss' experience is similar to my experience with the Bones 187 (I"m 5'10" and about 180 lbs).  Had them in Bye Bye bowl at Sunshine a few weeks ago with variable wind effected snow.  Big arc GS style turns had no speed limit and felt smooth and controlled despite variable snow.  The skis felt powerful and confidence inspiring.  Felt the same when the snow was cut up later in the day.  Had a similar experience at Louise two weekends ago and at Apex last Wednesday and Thursday in tighter conditions.  These skis like speed.  They also like committed handling and they seem to sense my tentative or tired skiing.  I tend to get a bit lazy when I'm tired and probably get in the back seat a bit more in the late afternoon.  At these times the Bones are not as much fun.

In a previous post I noted that the Bones needed a centered stance - that was on groomers.  Since then I've opened the speed up some more and find that I can pressure the front nicely when at speed and in variable conditions. 

I still find the Bones to be not the first choice for days when the snow is a bit older and harder and I'm skiing bigger bumps all day.  The Bones do OK, but are not as fast edge to edge and the tails are a bit stiff in the bumps, so I find other skis to be more fun. 

Having said that, I found that detuning the last 4 to 6 inches helped for these conditions and didn't negatively affect overall handling.  I was skiing with another guy who had the 180 Bones - he had his tuned with two degree side and one degree base (I believe that the factory tune is three edge and one base) and he noted that he liked the skis much better with the less aggressive tune.  I believe that a less aggressive tune allows the skis to drift sideways more easily.

I'm still amazed by people classifying the Bonafides as being stiff.  If you hand flex a bunch of 94-98mm skis in a ski shop the Bonafides are probably one of the softest in the bunch (my references would be similar skis from Dynastar, Salomon, Volkl, Rossignol).  Maybe not a soft as a K2 and I haven't hand flexed a Kastle in a while as there is only one shop in UT that has them.  The Bonafides are torsionally rather stiff though due to the metal. 

As far as the tune goes yes they come at .75-1* and 3* from the factory.  For my demo skis I've added a little more base bevel to the tips and tails of the ski and also detuned the first 4-6 inches on the ski.  On very hard packed conditions with the skis tipped up really far they might not pull into the top of the turn with them detuned that much but they will ski variable terrain much better which is where you're generally going to ski a 98mm ski anyways.  The tips and tails become more predictable and easier to skid/slide yet if they rest of the ski is sharp you still get performance on hard snow when you encounter it.  Just make sure that if you are adding more base bevel by hand that you really smooth out the base edge with some fine grit diamond stones.  I usually start with 400, then 600, then finish with 1000.  Whenever you create linear structure in the base edge and don't polish it out the skis can sometimes feel like they don't pivot as well. 

According to the 2011/2012 Kästle catalog, the BMX series has no metal and all 2011/2012 Kastle skis come from the factory with a 1 degree base/2 degree side bevel

Edited my post sorry for the confusion... was talking about the Bonafides

Wasatchback, or anyone else, would you recommend 3 degree side bevel on a 98mm or wider ski?  or is that too aggressive?

From what both Justruss and Canadian skier confirmed--the Bones absolutely rip in bowls/open terrain.  I agree on that.  However, I'm not comfortable with mass amounts of speed--probably ~25mph on broken up/tracked out powder. And 35mph on groomers.  That's not anywhere near the speed limit of the Bones.   I prefer more turns over speed.  And the Bonafides don't seem to want to slow down :)

Regardless of all that, as I mentioned earlier, the issue I have with the stiffness of the bones is not in the bowls or on groomers. It's in the tight trees (not glades), or on steep pitches where jump turning is almost mandatory (at least for a high 7, low 8 skier who doesn't want to bomb faces at mach 4).    It's in those two situations where I feel the skis is just too much for my 145lb weight.  

@Wasatchback ... I have hand flexed the Bonafides many times and you're right--they don't feel overly stiff.  But I would say they're significantly stiffer on the snow than my '10 Prophet 100's.  I mean, look at the construction: the Bones have two full sheets of metal and the Prophets have one cut out/partial sheet.  While that isn't super noticeable in the hands, it sure seems it to me on the snow.  But this could also be because my Prophets are 10cm shorter as well.    

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benflow 

 

Regardless of all that, as I mentioned earlier, the issue I have with the stiffness of the bones is not in the bowls or on groomers. It's in the tight trees (not glades), or on steep pitches where jump turning is almost mandatory (at least for a high 7, low 8 skier who doesn't want to bomb faces at mach 4).    It's in those two situations where I feel the skis is just too much for my 145lb weight.  

 

 

Skied the Bones all weekend in steep narrow chutes, trees, and bumps at Kicking Horse.  the snow was not very good since we haven't had much snow in over a week.  I was very happy with the 187 Bones performance in these conditions.  Although the Bones do quite well in open bowls and at speed, I also felt that the Bones stability translated nicely to tight chutes where some jump turns were sometimes needed.  Can't comment on the ski for a lighter skier - I weigh between 175 to 180.

Gunner bob,

I wouldn't dismiss the BMX98. I'd say you would just might want to jump up to the 188, its a fair bit stiffer than the 178 Dawg is skiing on in the review/video and plenty of ski for someone your size.  I'm 6'1" 190lbs a bit less skilled than Dawg but equally as aggressive. I found it to be on the stiffer side of what I like in that length and width, great for big mountain skiing. At my size & skill I could ski either length just depend on priorities. 

Thanks for the info Chris.  The stiffness and stability is something I cherish, but at 188 length, do you find it a bit unwieldy though?  Possibly a tradeoff, or is it still nimble enough for tighter radius turns on the groomers?

Gunnerbob

188's does seem pretty long but I never noticed it getting in the way, it's a quick ski almost as quick as the LX92 in 174 I was skiing back to back with it. The BMX 108 in the same length never bothered me either and my day to day big mtn ski softer and 5cm shorter. Stability wise there true to length but unwieldily never came to mind. Hope that helps.

Question have you considered the FX94 in 186 or demoing a Bone, BMX98 etc? Time well spent if you can.

 "The Bonafide is really stout. I found it to be too much ski for shorter turns and funky snow: tip and tail were just too stiff, and it was making me work really hard. It is most fun when I have room to let it run, and don't need to be really active on the ski with my feet.  I think this ski makes the most sense for a bigger guy; several of us smaller guys who have skied it hard got pushed around."

This makes me wonder how much better your experience would have been on a shorter Bonafide.  We lightweight guys don't necessarily need burly 180 cm skis in this category to get great performance. Having skied Volkl Mantras and Dynastar Legend 94s in two sizes, I have found the shorter skis inspire far more confidence.  Almost seem like a different ski.  They're easier to control in crud and moguls, and take much less muscle to get them around.  They are also turnier in shorter sizes, something I happen to love. I weigh in at 140 lbs, so I admit I'm a more extreme example, but when I demo the Bonafides I'll try 173 or 166.

I'm more hard snow biased, and at my size (similar to Kevin), I'm considering the Dynastar Legend 94, Rossi E98, possibly Kastle BMX 98.  I have to admit though........I'm really lusting for the Rossi Exp 98. 

After I sell 2 sets of skis I have sitting at home, I think I can convince my wife that I'll need a new set next season........