EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Outside Ski Pressure Management
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Outside Ski Pressure Management

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

Is there a point where to much outside ski pressure degrades the turn performance on groomed runs? The outside ski compresses the snow pack till the ski sinks deep into the run 4-5 inches and throws chunks of snow out of the ruts. Seems like wasted energy. A lighter touch or higher edge angles?

post #2 of 10

Niether...the snows ability to resist varies, soft snow will "compress" more or "shear" sooner then harder snow.  Nothing we do will change the snows properties.  Harder snow will facilitate more performance turns...softer snow less so.

 

Yes you can reduce the pressure you apply to the snow...or increase it...but then it isnt the same turn.  Increasing edge angle will add more pressure, thus making the rut deeper, or (more likley) the added pressure would cause the snow to shear...or "give way" under you, causing you to slip.

 

You could reduce pressure by slowing down, or turning less....but what is the point of that? 

 

Sure deep ruts and snow flying is lost energy...but that doesnt mean that it is not the most efficeient that can be achieved for the snow conditions.

post #3 of 10

If your outside ski starts to chatter that could be an indication of too much pressure.

post #4 of 10
Thread Starter 

No chatter. That would be a issue on Ice/hard snow, This is softer groomer snow that shears from ski pressure. 

post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Yes you can reduce the pressure you apply to the snow...or increase it...but then it isnt the same turn.  Increasing edge angle will add more pressure, thus making the rut deeper, or (more likley) the added pressure would cause the snow to shear...or "give way" under you, causing you to slip.


Oh? Softer snow just compresses into a platform more easily. If your outside ski's slipping, it's a signal that there may be a need for more angulation (among a plethora of possibilities anyway)...

 

If you're getting a "thud-thud-thud" despite an early edge engagement, and it's hard snow, maybe there's too much pressure--how about flexing the joints to alleviate some pressure off the ski? (Unlikely on soft snow tho... your edges and bases are stiffer than the snow)

post #6 of 10
Compressing the snow 4" - 6" underfoot suggests it's not groomed but rather new (or new-ish), fairly light & malleable (still not very consolidated) snow. If that's the case you have too much of your pressure and weight on the outside/downhill ski and need to let the inside/uphill ski share more of the load.

Also sounds like you're not managing pressure at the foot, but rather offering too much shearing force (pushing through the skeleton, not rotary/steered), like doing a 1-legged leg press or squat with perfect knee tracking. Why push back so hard against the ski?
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post

Compressing the snow 4" - 6" underfoot suggests it's not groomed but rather new (or new-ish), fairly light & malleable (still not very consolidated) snow. If that's the case you have too much of your pressure and weight on the outside/downhill ski and need to let the inside/uphill ski share more of the load.
Also sounds like you're not managing pressure at the foot, but rather offering too much shearing force (pushing through the skeleton, not rotary/steered), like doing a 1-legged leg press or squat with perfect knee tracking. Why push back so hard against the ski?


As angles increase and pressure builds a skeletal alignment to resist forces and bend the ski. I think you are right about the 1 legged press and not steering enough. I will work on steering more to see if that makes a difference. Thanks posters.

 

 

post #8 of 10

Well it's a tricky thing.   You can call on the inside ski to help out.  However, the more pressure you direct to the outside ski, the better it digs in, and the less pressure you apply to the inside ski the more you have available for the outside ski, but if you overload the snow by demanding too much of that outside ski, trying for just a smidgen more turn...SNAP! you're going for an exciting slide.  Don't push it in front of a lift tower.

post #9 of 10

shouldnt this be in the instruction forum?

 

Honestly there are 2 answer IMO. either more on the inside ski or a ski that can build more platform IE a fatter/longer skis.

 

this is the reason why race stock GS skis can sometimes be bummer on really soft groomer because they tend to spear though instead of bending when pressured.

post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post


As angles increase and pressure builds a skeletal alignment to resist forces and bend the ski. I think you are right about the 1 legged press and not steering enough. I will work on steering more to see if that makes a difference. Thanks posters.

 

 


slider,

Maybe I confused you with my wording. I wasn't suggesting you need more rotary -- I was just describing what I imagined to be the force you're delivering (straight through the skeleon like a 1-legged squat). I imagined this because I had a point in my soft-snow skiing where I was pushing back too much, as if I were on hardpack. When the snow gives enough to displace 4" - 6" underneath you, you have to be gentler in your pressure. You don't ski it like carving hardpack. It's a different game completely. As you discovered, skiing it like hardpack results in shearing, not a manageable pressure buildup.

I don't think rotary's going to help here unless you have some Spatula-styled geometry skis that are wide underfoot and narrow at the tips/tails. And it's going to deliver a type of turn (super-smeary pivot turn) that is about the polar opposite of a carved turn.

I would suggest a softer approach, and using flexion for turn transitions. Collapse and fold over the old uphill/outside ski in your transition.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Outside Ski Pressure Management