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If your ski's radius is so small you can't "start" turns till after the gate....

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

...to prevent bashing straight through it, is it time to increase your ski's turn radius?

post #2 of 11

u sure post some worthless crap.

 

of course.... or approach the gate differently.

post #3 of 11

Your ski's radius is rarely going to be less than the turn shape in front of you.  Even if you have a GS ski with, say, a 24 M radius, and the course set is at 24M, that's just the vertical distance between gates. Once you take offset into consideration, "pure carve" is no longer an otpion, and the reverse is true:  see what LeMaster says about redirecting the skis to the "initial steering angle", which is where you can start carving...

post #4 of 11

Sounds like the pilot not the plane. Skiing is like dancing. Graceful & Smooth. Like these guys.

dancing-kids.jpg

 

 


 

post #5 of 11

VS, there you are not compelled to turn at the same radius built into your skis.  Edge control lets you tighten that turn or greatly extend it as needed.  Don't park and ride.  Have you ever played with the side-slip drills or falling leaf drills?  These reinforce the control of edging and fore/aft presure that can allow you to do 60 meter turns on 15 meter skis.

 

As suggested above, its not the arrow, it's the Indian. biggrin.gif

post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post

VS, there you are not compelled to turn at the same radius built into your skis.  Edge control lets you tighten that turn or greatly extend it as needed.  Don't park and ride.  Have you ever played with the side-slip drills or falling leaf drills?  These reinforce the control of edging and fore/aft presure that can allow you to do 60 meter turns on 15 meter skis.

 

As suggested above, its not the arrow, it's the Indian. biggrin.gif



I haven't done those drills.  I'll give them a try.

 

To me, "starting a turn" feels more stable and secure than delicately arcing the skis until I engage right at or below the gate.

 

I feel I am at the max of what I am physically capable of with my current race skis.  Maybe getting new equipment wont make me much better, but I'm interested in what it might do.

 

 

 

Even if Ted Ligety could win GS races on rental skis, does that mean those are the best skis for him?

post #7 of 11

I'll take it back in part. Your skis may need tuning to be more forgiving and allow you to have more control over when the edges engage.  For example, a short radius slalom ski can be very hooky when it is tuned with a .5 degree base and 3-degree side bevel  That is pretty typical for someone that wants a lot of hookup on hard snow and wants to do arc to arc turns.  Most recreational skiers can benefit from a less aggressive tune, especially along the base bevel.  Having a 1-degree base gives you a more forgiving ski and allows you to control better when the edges will hook up.  Detuning the tip and tail can further do that.  The price is, you don't have that energetic hookup if it is something you know how to use and control

 

If you are skiing at higher speeds and making longer turns, a 15 meter ski isn't the ideal tool of choice.  You are skiing GS turns, on a course, I would certainly get a recreational GS ski.  I used to ski on Volkl 6-stars and they were like cheating on that kind of turn.  Today, a lot of skiers are getting a great deal of versatility out of the"crazy 88" waist skis.  If you can decide what you want to do, contact philpug or dawgcatching and let them make a recommendation.  Then get that ski and enjoy.

post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

 

 

Even if Ted Ligety could win GS races on rental skis, does that mean those are the best skis for him?


Yes.

The problem is if Ligety starts winning on rentals, then someone else will want them and they might win on rentals.  Soon everyone will have rentals and there goes Ligety's advantage.  Thus, he does not use rentals. (Until he starts winning on them - wash and repeat)
 

 

post #9 of 11


 I'm not getting what you're trying to do.   If you're actually running gates, and not just talking about turn radius and ski sidecut, you should already know that the tactics of today's race courses dictate that you have to start the arc (carved part of the turn) up above the gate.  In GS, it's 2/3 of the arc above the gate, in SL, it's about 50/50.  You finish the old turn, go to neutral (flat ski), and start rolling over to the new outside edge ("upside down traverse"), because you have to start the new arc at the rise line.  You can be on the red line (lower on the rise line), yellow line (higher up on the rise line), or green line (way up on the rise line, most conservative), but wherever you intersect the rise line, you better be on the new edge and applying pressure or you're not going to make the gate after the one you're on.  Getting the arc started above the gate also means that you're carving most of the turn above and in the fall line, so you're using gravity.  The more of the arc you make below the gate, the more you're fighting gravity.

 

So, yeah, a ski with less sidecut is going to force you to go straighter....think you can still make all the gates?  I can't, but your mileage may vary...

 


frown.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post



I haven't done those drills.  I'll give them a try.

 

To me, "starting a turn" feels more stable and secure than delicately arcing the skis until I engage right at or below the gate.

 

I feel I am at the max of what I am physically capable of with my current race skis.  Maybe getting new equipment wont make me much better, but I'm interested in what it might do.

 

 

 

Even if Ted Ligety could win GS races on rental skis, does that mean those are the best skis for him?



 

post #10 of 11

I see what the problem is.  It's not your skis, it's your approach.  You're getting gate fixation and going straight at the gate.  You need to aim out, turn down.  You have to give the gate some vertical and horizontal space and trust that the arc above the gate may seem like it's going to be too wide, but in fact it'll bring you back to the gate at the fall line...go read some stuff about the basics of race course tactics, specifically the rise line concept...

 

ski.gif

 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

...to prevent bashing straight through it, is it time to increase your ski's turn radius?



 

post #11 of 11
You can train this by putting a marker (a brush or some colour spray) in the snow directly above each gate. As you exit each gate, aim just above the marker for the next gate and use it as a reference point to position and time your turn. Move the markers nearer/further from the gate to experiment. Which line gives you a clean turn and a good exit angle for the next gate? Obviously the answer to that question depends on several factors: gate seperation, how much traversing, how steep the slope is, how good a skier and what skis. There are more tricky situations, such as when the course is set across the fall line instead of straight down, where the course goes over a break away or a compression, or where you have a delay gate and gain extra speed, but get the basics sorted out first.

Its sometimes easier to work on some of these issues skiing on slalom skis in a GS course during practice sessions. You don't go as fast which makes it a bit easier to experiment with things like the timing of your turns. Not everything scales up to skiing on full-on GS skis, but it's still a useful exercise.
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