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Confirmation that insole battery packs are a ripoff - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyf View Post

Burton used to make exactly what the OP did. Basically a battery pack where you insert 4 AA batteries, rechargeablr or not, your choice. Works perfect.

 



Therm-ic also offers there own battery cases @ $40 and then you need a a charger, there's is an additional $35, and then 8 batteries. Nearly adds up to the same amount as buying the complete units.

post #32 of 45

"I got 2000mAh ones vs the Therm-ic 1400mAh. I saw up to 2900mAh ones which would more than double the capacity of the original ones!"

 

A free PSA: these numbers are completely bogus. They all are, on every battery.

 

All Ni-MH batteries are the same, differing a percent here or there in construction and materials. Cut any one of them open and the guts are the same. Since battery capacity is simply a function of electrolyte volume (the limning factor), all AA Ni-MH will have roughly the same capacity, again, within a few %.

 

So why the 100% rating difference between one battery and the next? Because they lie. No really, they just make up the numbers. Ask anyone in the industry.

 

There's no testing and no standards, so when the cheap brands started listing ridiculous numbers on their packages to make them sound better, the bigger companies had a choice, demand testing for everyone, or simply increase the numbers of their own packaging. The later was cheaper, and the numbers have been climbing to this day.

 

Don't get me wrong, a new battery will absolutely have more capacity than old ones. But a new 1500 mAh vs a new 2000 mAh is likely to be identical.

post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

There is no need for the 'Smart Pack'... do you really need a remote control for your boot heaters???



Might be good for covertly turning off your wife's,  when it's time for her to go home!

post #34 of 45

Can't one buy batteries that actually have meaningful stats on output?

Are there no testing standards? Do they have no shame?

What's the saying?

"You can hang a sign on a pig saying it's horse, but it's still a pig"  (not sure if lipstick is inovolved how things change...)

 

Sounds a bit like the whole shop vacuum markings that started to appear years ago.

"5hp" or then "peak hp" of 7 or some such ridiculous things.  These motors aren't large either.

 

If you've ever had to buy an actual 5 hp electric motor, you know that you couldn't possibly run it on a 120v household circuit and if you did get a 60amp circuit, the extension cord would be enormous.

post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Why not just use the chemical ones?


 

 



You mean like this one?

20952-DEFAULT-XL.jpgDr-McGillicuddys-Mint.jpg

 

I hate cold feet.  Thank God they go numb and don't bother me after an hour or two.. Love that burn as they thaw out!hopmad.gif

 

post #36 of 45

Yeah..that one will get you hypothermic but at least you'll smile about it.

Ya know that burning ain't so good for ya...

Good thing you're never that far from the base in NC!  snowfight.gif

post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Can't one buy batteries that actually have meaningful stats on output?

Are there no testing standards? Do they have no shame?


Apparently the ones that actually come closest to meeting their ratings are Apple, and the Toshiba ones that are actually inside the Apple.

 

And no, no shame. That seems a rare commodity these days.

post #38 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Quote:

So, why don't we come up with a design?

The most expensive thing would be the elements/wires and case. I suppose if we get our own elements, they'd be pretty cheap.
 

 



A little Google-fu comes up with a bunch of the robotics sites that have step down converters for fairly cheap. Biggest difference is that you don't get a nice lo-med-high setting through a switch, rather you have set it with an on board potentiometer so a bit difficult on-the-fly. This is a nice compact package that takes 1.5-12v in and converts to 2-12V out. Pick the output voltage that best suits you likes an go from there.

 

http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/2120

 

This one is limited to 300mA continuous, so you could get the equivalent of the Thermic low (1) and just below med (2). I suspect that most people would run them at these settings in any event.

post #39 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post



A little Google-fu comes up with a bunch of the robotics sites that have step down converters for fairly cheap. Biggest difference is that you don't get a nice lo-med-high setting through a switch, rather you have set it with an on board potentiometer so a bit difficult on-the-fly. This is a nice compact package that takes 1.5-12v in and converts to 2-12V out. Pick the output voltage that best suits you likes an go from there.

 

http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/2120

 

This one is limited to 300mA continuous, so you could get the equivalent of the Thermic low (1) and just below med (2). I suspect that most people would run them at these settings in any event.



Dude, this is a great thread!@ I just crunched 2 heaters in 2 weeks by the chairlift. Imagine my shock when the second one broke open the battery pack (Therm-ic) and I see 4 ni-cad batts in there. Was mentioning to my buddy on the chair today we should make our own.

 

I am in! The real issue is the circuitry for the controller, isn't it?

 

BTW, just about every higher end ski shop has a ton of dead Therm-ic cases lying in the drawer. No need to re-invent the wheel, let's get better tires!

 

 

 

post #40 of 45

Richie,

 

Have you made any further progress with the battery packs or are you happy with what you created?  Any updates that i can learn from?

post #41 of 45

This thread is fun!

 

I've got a "green idea".  Just looking at a drawer full of  old pocket phones, chargers and BATTERIES.

 

the last of which cost $2 to replace.  Lith-ion 3.7V 1000mAh. The obsolete phones don't draw much of a battery market ;-)

 

I use the batteries in the lab for DC current sources.  Put 'em back in the phone to charge them up.

 

Nice size (flat)

 

If the power circut were fit in the  flip phone,  there is a gold mine recyling opportunity ;-)

 

Combine it with Avey Beacon , keeping the phone, and it would be a "must have" accessory! ;-)

post #42 of 45


as to battery ratings, you need to look at the test curves and you decide what the numbers mean..  maH rating is from the starting full charge voltage (which is VERY shot) to some voltage cutoff point.. The "standard" used to be a cutoff of 1.0 volts (NIMH)  which many years ago was quite iffy for a lot of devices, but now I've seen cutoff traces down to 0.6v which many times damages the cells...

for lithium ion battery' protected cells will always have a rating lower than non protected cells for 2 reasons one is slightly less electrolyte and second it cuts the cell off at a specific voltage instead of letting the battery be destroyed/.. using around 2.4v, some as high a s 2.8 (cut this extra capacity is really small, once the cell hits around 3.0v  the dropoff is extremely fast for any reasonable current draw)

 

don't confuse power rating between different types of cells.. especially in todays market of devices with charge pumps and buck/boost regulators.. a lo cell with a nominal rating of 950mah (aa) size delivers more electrons than a AA NIMH at 2400 (which that rating is really pushing it)

post #43 of 45

OK, yes, I realize this is an ancient thread :-)   However, I am in the process of building a new battery pack for my really old Hotronic heaters so google sent me here.  Question for any engineers or techs who might have taken a close look at the Hotronic heating element.  Seems to be some kind of IC component soldered on it that I can't quite figure out.  It's not a simple resistor and, in fact. I get no continuity across the terminals.  Might just have to go with a Therm-ic heating element for my home-brew battery pack unless I can figure out the Hotronic one.

 

Thanks and please do a snow dance for us poor Northeast skiers!  :-)


Edited by nhdude - 1/13/16 at 4:18am
post #44 of 45

Or "thread." "threat" works, though, kinda.

post #45 of 45
Thanks... :-)
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