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Lange Banshee and WC 120 Advice

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 

Should I stay in my current Lange Banshees, switch to Worldcup 120s, or do something else (like replace the liner of the Banshees)?

 

I have been happy in my Lange Banshees with stock liner and custom footbeds for about 175 days of skiing between March '09 and May '11, but after reading Skiing-in-Jackson's sock thread, I am wondering if it is time to make a change.

 

In addition to the Banshees, I also own an unused pair of World Cup 120s- the crazy blue from a few year back. 

 

Jeff Bergeron in Breck evaluated my feet in the fall of 2008 and did my footbeds.  He told me that the shells were both RX 11 for these two boots, which he thought was the only option for my long feet (13.5 US/30.5 mondo).  I got good deals on both and ended up buying the Banshees (flex marked at 125) after the 120s as I liked a few of the "Freeride" features which included shock absorbing boot board & tongue, and non-slip soles.

 

They both have 343 BSLs, but the stock liner in the 120s is a bit shorter.  When I intially tried them on, the Banshees felt snug, but comfortable while the 120s felt too tight on one of my feet.  I attributed this mostly to the different liners (the 120s have a neoprene like material in the toes and feels shorter/tighter in this area.  The 120s also felt tighter in the cuff (not a problem) and seemed to barely need to be buckled.

 

Now the difference between the two boots is even more noticeable as the Banshees have packed out some, but I still consider them reasonable (if not quite as snug) to ski, comfortable and in good shape (in terms of soles, etc).

 

I don't have the 120s available as I type this, but know that I at one time considered the possibility of switching boot boards, but can't recall which direction.  At this point I certainly like the idea of the shock absorbing boot boards in the Banshees as I am coming off a major meniscus repair as part of my 2nd ACL surgery.  The first one saw a meniscus trim, so I guess I am of the mindset that I would rather do a bit to cushion the knees even if it means a bit less power transferred to my edges.  The Banshee boot board has a hole in it where the male part of the shell fits while the 120 boot board either didn't have this at all (or was on the other side).

 


Edited by MEfree30 - 1/22/12 at 7:50am
post #2 of 6

I'm not really sure what you are asking?

 

try the new liner in the banschee shell and see how that feels?

 

or move the rubber boot board to the WC shell

 

try the options, mix and match, see what feels and skis right for you

post #3 of 6
Thread Starter 

 Thanks for the reply Mnt Lion- sorry for not being more specific.  What got me going on this was http://www.epicski.com/t/109401/from-a-slopeside-bootfitter-brief-notes-concerning-sock-choice#post_1420376

 

Specifically, I would like to know the following:

 

1. What is the normal expected life span of:

     A. My Lange Banshee liners?

     B. My WC 120 liners?

     C. Intuition and other after market liners?

 

2. My WC 120 liners are slightly shorter and cramp my toes, Are they likely to stretch a bit and feel more comfortable as I ski them?

 

3. Is there any issues I should be aware of if I wanted to mix and match between the two boots?  Keep in mind that the male/female connection of the boot board to the shell is different on the two boots- not saying it won't work, but it may require drilling/cutting a hole (at least in one direction, IIRC)

 

4. Are there any new boots that I have come out since the start of 2009 similar to the 98 mm lasted RX 11 shell that may be a good (better?) option for a guy in mondo 30/30.5?  



Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post

 Since the ski boot liner has a finite life span (about 25-40 days), it is essential to not accelerate this process at all. In a bootfit, make sure you are using as thin a sock as possible. 

Using a padded sock for the fit process kills the liner and can cause sheer if you are not putting your boots on properly. Padded socks have their place, but it is far more limited than you think. The additional material is usually found on heel, shin. Sometimes, I see socks with padding under the metatarsal heads- that's Neuroma waiting to happen! Shear in a ski boot cannot be underestimated.

 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

Wow, informative, thanks. you said a liner may be dead after 40 days. I often put 400 days on a liner, hmmm. still learning. how about replacing the liner with intuition or other after market? can that liner be used in future with any boot of same bsl? is there a process to refit the liner to a new boot, after having fit it to the old boot? what liners do you like? I'd like warmth into the deal. what is the life expectancy of an intuition or comparable liner?

 

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

But - to "Segway" [sic] on to a different topic - what's with the statement below about liner life? Seriously? For me that means one season. For some on this board, that means TWO liners a season. Can you expand on this? What do others think of this claim?

 

 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiing-in-Jackson View Post

Yeah, stock liners don't hold up well under the daily pressures of industrial skiing. Guys (and gals) skiing every day have special needs. Among the most important are control and comfort. After finding the correct shell for their foot shape, many industrial skiers toss a stock liner and start with an Intuition liner from day one.
It is generally recognized that a strong skier will power through a stock liner in a couple of weeks. However, some stock liners are very durable and solid.


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD View Post

I know lot's of strong skiers.  I don't know anyone that goes through liners that fast. 

 

post #4 of 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post

 Thanks for the reply Mnt Lion- sorry for not being more specific.  What got me going on this was http://www.epicski.com/t/109401/from-a-slopeside-bootfitter-brief-notes-concerning-sock-choice#post_1420376

 

Specifically, I would like to know the following:

 

1. What is the normal expected life span of:

     A. My Lange Banshee liners?

     B. My WC 120 liners?

     C. Intuition and other after market liners?

 

2. My WC 120 liners are slightly shorter and cramp my toes, Are they likely to stretch a bit and feel more comfortable as I ski them?

 

3. Is there any issues I should be aware of if I wanted to mix and match between the two boots?  Keep in mind that the male/female connection of the boot board to the shell is different on the two boots- not saying it won't work, but it may require drilling/cutting a hole (at least in one direction, IIRC)

 

4. Are there any new boots that I have come out since the start of 2009 similar to the 98 mm lasted RX 11 shell that may be a good (better?) option for a guy in mondo 30/30.5? 

1)  I think they are all about 100-200 days if the shell fit is right,  shell too big = liner packs out too much.  foam will get you 300-500

 

2)  yes,  to the shell shape

 

3)try it and see.   as long as the parts fit

 

4)   just about every company makes a 98mm boot.   try some on and see how they fit.  the companies all make a 30, but not sure if stores will bring this in.

post #5 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post

4)   just about every company makes a 98mm boot.   try some on and see how they fit.  the companies all make a 30, but not sure if stores will bring this in.


Thanks again Mntlion.  Yes, they all make a 98 mm boot and yes they all make a 30, but do all of them make a 98 mm in a 30?  Also, not all 98 mm lasted boots fit the same, correct?  

 

When I went for my fitting in the Fall of 2008, Jeff Bergeron seemed very familiar with all the boots on the market and thought the RX 11 shell was my only real option (although he had me try on some others, including models that max at a 29 shell)  Just wondering if anything new has come out since then?

 

Besides the RX 11 shell (Lange, Rossi), what else comes in a 30 that is around a 98 mm last (with a flex of 120 to 140)?  

 

Many of the Manufacturers websites don't make this easy to search.  Looking at Nordica, I see the 

Dobermann PRO EDT 130

has a 98 mm last and 130 flex, but maxes in a "UK 10.5" (which is US 11.5 which I think corresponds to a 29.5 mondo- too small for my 13.5 feet)

 

OTOH, the Fire Arrow 1 goes up to 31, but they don't list the flex or last

 

 

  • 200_242_dobermann_pro_edt_130_05001001_100.jpg

    Dobermann PRO EDT 130

    Description:

    Technologie Phare: 
    - Technologie EDT
    - Appui pour le pied de 43 mm homologué Fis
    - Construction de la coque de compétition pro originale
    - Chausson race pro fit
    Flex Index: 130
    Pointures: 3-10.5 UK
    Last: 98mm

    Tecnologies:

    EDT - Aggressive Frontside

  • 200_242_FIREARROW%20F1_050140009T4.jpg

    Fire Arrow F1

    Description:

    Technologie Phare: 
    - Maintien du cou-de-pied à 45°
    - Technologie EDT
    - Flex progressif ADJ
    - Retour élastique de la languette
    - Construction de la coque en 3 parties pour un enfilage facilité
    - Chausson PFP Performance Fit
    - Semelles pu double densité grande adhérence
    Pointures: : 24.0-31.0 MP
    Last: 000
    Dynamic Performance Code: 
    - Stiffness: 16.0
    - Progression: 2
    - Rebound: H

    Tecnologies:

    Dynamic Performace Code
    EDT - Aggressive Frontside
    All New Shell Design
    45° Instep retention - Aggressive frontside

  • 200_242_HELLBACK_HIKE_PRO.jpg

    Hell&Back Hike Pro

    Description:

    Technologie Phare: 
    - Technologie Hike&Ride
    - Maintien du cou-de-pied à 45°
    - Flex progressif avec retour élastique de la languette
    - Full shock eraser double densité
    - Chausson PFP comfort fit
    - Construction de la coque en 3 parties pour un enfilage facilité
    - Semelles pu double densité grande adhérence
    Pointures: 24.0-31.0 MP
    Last: 100mm
    Dynamic Performance Code: 
    - Stiffness: 14.0
    - Progression: 2
    - Rebound: M

    Tecnologies:

    Dynamic Performace Code
    Hike Ski - Side Country
    Dual Density New Full Shock EraserExcellent amortissement des chocs
    45° Instepretention - Side Country
    Full Rubben Sole - Side Country

  • 200_242_firearrow_f2_050142009l8.jpg

    Fire Arrow F2

    Description:

    Technologie Phare: 
    - Maintien du cou-de-pied à 45°
    - Technologie EDT
    - Flex progressif ADJ
    - Retour élastique de la languette
    - Construction de la coque en 3 parties pour un enfilage facilité
    - Chausson PFP Performance Fit
    - Semelles pu double densité grande adhérence
    Pointures: : 24.0-31.0 MP
    Last: 100mm
    Dynamic Performance Code: 
    - Stiffness: 15
    - Progression: 2
    - Rebound: H

    Tecnologies:

    Dynamic Performace Code
    EDT - Aggressive Frontside
    All New Shell Design
    45° Instep retention - Aggressive frontside

post #6 of 6
Thread Starter 

With Fischer, the Vacuum maxes in a 29.5 while the SOMA PROGRESSOR 130 has a 100 last (but does go to 30.5).

 

On Langes site, I see they have several 97 mm lasted boots, but can't seem to find what size they are available in.

 

 

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