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Dynastar Speed Course v. Speed Course Ti

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Sierra Jim's front side post reminded me of a question I can't seem to answer--Are there two Dynastar Speed Course models, one with the Ti and one without?  I ask because I keep seeing a good deal on the www.evo.com outlet site for "Dynastar Speed Course" skis with binding under $400.  Specs make no mention of Ti layers, but give 120/72/104 and 15 m radius, "explosive tail rebound" call them expert skis, etc.  I searched the web and couldn't find the answer.  So is this the Ti or did Dynastar make a version without the metal? 

 

Also, its a 2011 model

post #2 of 29

I think there are two different versions 2011 and 2012 but the distinction is between WC and beer league.

 The versions available for 2012 (seen here) .  I could be wrong in my understanding of this. 

 

post #3 of 29

given the rounded tail and the cheap binding, I'd say that the evo offering is the race-like recreational carver/beer league de-tuned race ski. not that there's anything wrong with that. I want some.

post #4 of 29

This one? http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/dynastar-speed-course-nx12-fluid-bindings.aspx#image=48170.Size.LengthCM_184_Image.jpg

 

I don't believe that they made a Ti version for 2011.  I haven't skied that one but I can tell you the 2012 (only made in a Ti) is a seriously awesome ski.

post #5 of 29
it's a super fun ski - very stable, not.skittish.

how heavy are you ? im not big on that nx12 binding -- i prefer the px14
post #6 of 29

Ti is the detuned version of the WC ski. Almost the same, smaller turning Radius the Ti does not meet FIS Spec.  Been available since about 2010.  I just got an '10 Speed Course FIS ski, love it but the radius is 23m not 17m for the Ti

post #7 of 29

somebody correct me if i am dead wrong.  in reviewing the the rail on the NON-ti version, its black and i'm betting its made outta some kind of composite like most of my dynastars out of the contact series; whereas, i'll bet the newer "ti" version has a rail made out of some kind of metal.  while i'm not as familiar with this ski, the only real explanation for the ti, in my contact cross ti, was the metal rail that the binding was affixed to.

 

dave

post #8 of 29

Realskiers has the Speed Course Ti review for 2011.  The ski looks exact but is missing the word "Ti".  I'm guessing it's not the same.  Unfortunately, realskiers does not have a Speed Course so I can't confirm.  If it is the Ti, I'll buy them in a second.  I demoed a month ago an they're all that.

post #9 of 29

I believe they are the Ti's the Model Number is DA9G701 (you can read it in the picture), the number on mine is DA9XG01 and I know they are 2010 FIS rated.  There is a review on the youtube re the Ti's  along with a comparison of the full race and Ti on Epic.  I got mine with Dyanstar PX14 Race Bindings (Dec 26, 2011).

 

http://www.zimbio.com/Skiing/articles/Dgp6MdyBoAq/Dynastar+Speed+Course+Wc+176cm+2010+Skis+W

 

Only difference between mine and those listed is the binding is Branded Look.

 

Haven't skied the Ti's so I can't comment, I can only suspect that they are a little less work.

 

 

 

post #10 of 29

I don't see them on their site anymore but I'm guessing they were the Speed Cross, not the Speed Course. The Cross version shares the same dimensions as the Course W/O Ti, is black & white in color and has the Fluid binging system at a much lower cost? The predecessor to the Speed Course Ti was the Speed Course 67 which had Ti in the ski but not the name and was narrower through out.

post #11 of 29

Speed Course,  You can tell by the Model Numbers.

post #12 of 29

speed cross and speed cross Ti are exactly the same, except the TI has  titanium  layers and a raised biding plate. The speed course has a sandwich construction with a wrapped wood core with a free flex binding. I just bought the speed course on the recommendation from a couple of race coaches and the ski is very good. Great edgehold, stable, snappy and versatile enough for an everyday ski here in the east. It skis like a detuned race ski. For what they are selling them at EVO.com for, it is the deal of the century.

post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil J View Post

speed cross and speed cross Ti are exactly the same, except the TI has  titanium  layers and a raised biding plate. The speed course has a sandwich construction with a wrapped wood core with a free flex binding. I just bought the speed course on the recommendation from a couple of race coaches and the ski is very good. Great edgehold, stable, snappy and versatile enough for an everyday ski here in the east. It skis like a detuned race ski. For what they are selling them at EVO.com for, it is the deal of the century.



What do you mean by "free flex binding?"  I just got my Speed Course and they have an aluminum raised binding rail just like the TI (except I think the rail on the TI is made of Titanium also).  But yeah, 400 bucks with bindings for that ski is a ridiculous steal.

 

I was also extremely impressed with the factory tune, tips and tails already detuned and razor sharp edge on the rest!

 

 

 

post #14 of 29

If you look on the Dynastar website and choose a European version of the site rather than the U.S. version you can see that they are offering the 2012 "Speed Course" along with the "Speed Course Ti" and list the Course as a ski for Advanced and up while the Course Ti is for Expert and up. All of the dimensions are the same but the Course Ti has titanal and the Course has just a wood/fiberglass core. They are both listed in the Race section of the website. The U.S. version of the site goes down to the Course Ti but leaves out the Course, so I am guessing they are not offering that version in the U.S.

 

Evo is a high volume retailer and probably got a great deal on last year's Course which was not even offered in the U.S. However, the question comes down to the performance of the Course vs. the Course Ti. Has anyone skied both? I would love to see a comparison.

post #15 of 29

I searched some European websites that are selling the 2012 Speed Course and it is retailing for around $750 with bindings (calculated using a currency converter). I believe Evo posted the full retail price for the Course Ti even though they are selling the lesser model, making it look like a much better deal than it really is. Buyer beware.

post #16 of 29

Thanks Tall.  However even at $750/800 (likely MAP) pricing, the the full retail (which nobody actually sells at) was probably actually close to 1200 or so originally.

 

Even still, at 400 bucks with bindings that's 45/50 % off MAP.  I try mine out tomorrow and will give a full report on our Tahoe ice.  

 

As I mentioned earlier they feel (flexing by hand) to be about the exact stiffness as my Kendos (and remarkably similar in shape too, except for being 16mm narrower at the waist.)  Interesting to note the Kendos have TI and these don't, yet the stiffness is similar.

 

After looking at the Kendo and this ski side by side, I'm expecting a snappier, livelier, turnier Kendo type feel, but with much better grip on ice.  The non TI was probably intended for lighter racers or less experienced racers.   Since this is the same design and dimensions as the TI, I'm guessing/predicting that this ski will be good all-mountain also in shallower stuff and probably better in bumps.  

 

We'll see....

post #17 of 29

Just going on family genetics, I think you will find that despite being a little qucker and possibly having easier precision, the Dynastar gives you more of a smooth ride suspension feel, especially on the harder snow and ice, whereas the kendo will feel more playfull, assuming you are skiing in the right speed range for the skis.

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovethesteeps View Post

Thanks Tall.  However even at $750/800 (likely MAP) pricing, the the full retail (which nobody actually sells at) was probably actually close to 1200 or so originally.

 

Even still, at 400 bucks with bindings that's 45/50 % off MAP.  I try mine out tomorrow and will give a full report on our Tahoe ice.  

 


I agree that the $400 price may still be a good deal for a great ski that will suit the needs of many people. I'm still considering purchasing a pair myself. However, MAP pricing is usually 15%-20% off MSRP and I saw both prices on the Euro websites that are selling the Course. I believe the MSRP was around $850 and the price they were selling them at was around $750. I believe the skis are ultimately being sold at around half off like other prior-year skis, which is a good deal but not the "incredible" deal that is implied by showing a $1,200 MSRP like Evo is doing.

 

Like I said, I am still interested in purchasing these skis and look forward to your review.

 

post #19 of 29

Okay, here's the deal.  Had the SC's (non-TI) out at Squaw all day today, all over the mountain.  They are very good skis.  Very stable at speed and with great edge grip.  I had them up to about 47mph according to ski tracks and they felt rock solid at that speed and were ridiculously easy to scrub all that speed down to nothing almost very quickly.  I've never felt so confident at that kind of speed before.  

 

Yet, these skis are certainly not demanding in terms of needing to concentrate 100% of the time on what you are doing for fear of them getting out from under you, like I've heard about other GS skis (and the TI version of this same ski).  

 

You can pretty much chill out at slower speeds (20-30mph) and they are happy to do what you ask of them, but don't expect a ski with much personality at these speeds--they do everything well, including short radius turms, but aren't particularly fun or playful.  Once I got used to them, I found myself just opening up and straight lining icy blues 40mph+ with hardly a second thought and this is where they were happiest.

 

In comparison, my Bonifides are way more fun and playful at slower speeds and can certainly also Mach softer groomers, but I always found myself washing out when scrubbing speed in icier conditions, and getting nervous with the screaming banshee sound they make on ice (Kendo's also).  The SC's were almost the opposite, void of personality at slower speeds, but very happy maching the iciest shit you can find in wide GS turn shapes at big edge angles (and they dont make that nails on a chalkboard sound on ice either).  They are race skis after all, lol.

 

And, they ARE a stiff ski.  This is not a playful or snappy ski in general, although the tail does have quite a bit of energy and pop which you really feel in shorter radius turns.  Overall they are stiff, heavy and damp and mean business.  I'm 6'3" and 235 lbs and they were always there for me when I needed them to be.  NEVER found myself missing metal sheets or whatever.  They did everything I asked of them, short radius turns, long turns, frozen crud, whatever.  Yet they were still happiest on smooth, hard snow, going as fast as you're comfortable, preferably in as straight of a line as possible.

 

So all in all they are pretty much ideal for Squaw's current hard, icy groomer conditions.  Yet, as soon as it snows again I'll still be back on my Bonafides in a heartbeat.

 

P.S. I wish I had my Kendos with me to compare them back to back, but I will say, I never once felt comfortable enough on the Kendos to just straight line an icy Squaw Creek like I did today, and on my Kendos I wanted to stop skiing as soon as everything was scraped off and icy, but on the SC's I never really even noticed the ice.  That said, if the snow was soft everywhere (as in not icy) I'd definitely grab the Kendos (or better yet, the Bonafides) first.

 

So all in all, 400 bucks with bindings is an amazing deal for a ski of this caliber, but a ski of this caliber is certainly not for everybody.  I thought that since this ski didn't have metal, it might make a decent all-mountain or even bump ski.  Not.  

 

Make no mistake, this is a serious GS "beer league" race ski that loves hard smooth snow going as fast as possible--it's not likely going to be a one ski quiver, or all-mountain ski ever...unless you are an Ice Coaster and are unfortunate enough to have the rare Squaw-like conditions we have right now, most of the year.

 

So, in short, I'd only recommend buying this ski if you plan on skiing at least 5-6 more days this season in boilerplate conditions, OR if you are a beer league racer.  For myself, the former definitely applies, so I'm pretty happy with this purchase!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by lovethesteeps - 2/4/12 at 7:22pm
post #20 of 29

lovethesteeps, what length did you get?

 

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallSkinnyGuy View Post

lovethesteeps, what length did you get?

 



 

184

post #22 of 29

Nice review. I have the 178 and I find it quite versatile and pretty good at slow speeds, but it really likes to go fast more than it likes to go slow. I am an east coast skier and this is a great option for the the conditions we primarily have most of the time, especially this year. The ski holds great on Ice, and I too, never missed any "metal" on the contrary, this is probably more forgiving than it's TI brother. So far on groomers, ice and 4" of fresh, this ski has been quite exceptional for me. A longer length would certainly make it feel more "race" like and probably be better for higher speeds, the longer you go. I think even in a 172cm this would make a great all mountain carver.

post #23 of 29

I'm on 176 full blown Speed Course FIS ski and I'm  6'0" 170lbs, I don't race.  Great lively ski in all conditions and all speed for me,  Sorry I'm used to working 205's and these require a little less work with vastly more reward.  One down side, you do pay for brain freeze if it happens (especially at slow speeds)...no forgiveness here, just embarassment eek.gif.  Don't ask!

 

Won't ski anything else for all an mountain type ski (with the possible exception of powder as I have little experience/exposure to it) and I don't do terrian parks (sorry warranty is up on this body).

 

A good skier won't be held back by this ski (Ti included).

post #24 of 29

Had the SC out again yesterday at Alpine Meadows in Tahoe.  Conditions were pretty nice softish groomers with frozen crud and icy bumps off-piste.  On the softer groomers and frozen crud I found myself wishing I was on my Bonafides, because they are just a funner ski in general.  All the locals had their 100-112 skis on--it was pretty funny actually, you'd have thought we had 2 feet of fresh or something.  But late in the day when I realized I was still railing the now icy skied off groomers hours after I would have gone home on the Bonafides, it hit home how good the SC's are for those kinds of conditions.

 

They were okay in the frozen crud, but not as stable as something wider would have been.  In the frozen bumps, they definitely felt LONG at 184, especially with the low rise tips.  But I can see how they might be able to pass as an all-mountain ski in shorter lengths, because they do have a forgiving (but not soft!) flex, especially the front part of the ski. 

 

Overall, my first impression from Day 1 pretty much stands.  The ski does anything you ask of it competently, but it doesn't really seem to wake up unless you are snapping out SL turns to feel the pop in the tail, or railing groomers at 40mph+.  For me anyway, they were only smile inducing at high-speed, where they make you feel like superman.  

 

If I had demo'd them I would have probably just stuck with my Kendo's as my narrower hard snow ski's since they are lighter and wider and more versatile everywhere else, rail soft groomers at high speed just as well and are maybe ever so slightly more fun and stable at lower speeds.  But now that I have the Bonafides, I'll likely just sell the Kendo's so I have something more specialized when there's no good off-piste skiing available.

 

post #25 of 29

I've had these out 6 days now and love them.

 

Me: 6'2", 170 lbs, advanced (level 7+?) skier, no racing background.

 

I got the 184s, hoping for something I could have fun with on boilerplate days (We get more in the PNW than some people think).  While I haven't had any really firm snow to ski on with them yet, I have had a lot of fun with them.  My first day out I almost fell over in transitions -- I was getting air from the virtual bump and had to learn to manage that -- but now I love that feeling.  I also found that if I get into the back seat, the tails lock in place and turning is almost impossible.  So I don't do that :)  When I'm on my game, I can get these skis to arc turns at forces I've never approached before.  And they feel so silky smooth when they do it I just want more.

 

I was surprised that with the right balance and pressure at the top of the turn, these things really slice through crud and I had a lot of fun with them off piste on choppy post-powder days.  They're also really smooth in fairly big bumps.  With tighter bumps I trip over the tails sometimes.

 

All in all, these make a better all-mountain ski than I expected and they are great on the groomers.  They are my go-to ski at Mission Ridge where I mostly mach groomers, but at Alpental where I'm in the steeps, trees, and bumps I'm more likely to stick with my old Rossi Phantom SC87s.

post #26 of 29

Did you the TI or no TI version?

post #27 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil J View Post

Did you the TI or no TI version?

 

Sorry about that, no TI. 
 

 

post #28 of 29

Skied Cannon all weekend. 5 Degrees at the top today, 15 Degree at the base. Chilly weekend to say the least. 4" fell yesterday and they groomed everything out. No one was out there today. I haven't used the Speed Courses too much this year because we have had decent snow cover as of lately & I have been focusing on Bump & tree skiing every chance I get on other boards. The Rain last week ruined great conditions and we are now back to hard pack, but the cover was excellent yesterday & today with little ice, and I got in about 30 runs over the weekend. I had forgotten how much I love these skis. They hold so well and you can really charge down the hill, or make leisurely turns down the steeps with ease! For  Anyone who knows Cannon,I must have done Cannonball ( Profile) 10 times this morning, every time with no other skier on the trail, and I the cover was so good that I started linking medium radius turns at the top and kept going without stopping down to the chair. Great work out. from there I was down Tram line to the Front 5 where I stayed all afternoon carving up Paulie's, Avalanche and Zoomer, all Hard & fast, but the skis held so well, I stayed out long after my wife & kids felt that it was getting too Icy. I only have a couple of weekends left for this season available to me, but I think next year these will be my go to skis once again. I spoke to My shop Buddy and he said that the regular Speed Course is now called the Speed Cross & Speed Cross Pro. ( different Binding set ups) Aso- gear in Canada has some ridiculous deals on these great versatile carvers.I may pick up another pair Just have them in closet for when my currents ones die out. With all the attention the new Rocker wide skis get these days, I had forgotten what a joy it is to ski on a narrow waisted ski on hard snow. Right tool for the right conditions makes all the difference in the world. These skis Rock, and the more I ski them, the better I feel like a ski.

post #29 of 29

I've been skiing the Speed Course FIS a far bit this season, and love it.  Nothing seems to stop these skis.

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